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If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man...

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by janc, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. janc

    janc Member

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    then why does the Bible say that he became the Son of God only when he became man?

    The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you; THEREFORE also the Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

    For the reason that he became a man he was called the Son of God, the Bible says so. There was no Son of God before that, that is why it is never mentioned in the Old Testament, because the Son of God was and is the Spirit of God who became flesh.
     
  2. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    The verse does not say he became, it says he wold be called. The Son of God is eternal.
     
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  3. brian100

    brian100 Well-Known Member

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    Right if he is the Son of God that means he has a Mother of God.
    Son of God is God as Man. And Mary gave him that part.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    the title Son of God is the Flesh, or the body that the Son of man came in who is the Spirit that came from heaven. women only give birth to flesh. did one not read? That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. women don't birth spirits,let me say that again, women don't birth spirits. spirits are given by God himself. supportive scripture, Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:"

    now I don't want to offend any woman who may have had this occured to them, so please understand what I'm saying, and my apologies to any woman who may have experince this. a woman can only give birth to "FLESH", and if God do not give it a spirit, it is called still born,no life in the body of flesh. so, no woman is a mother of any spirit, she is mother of flesh and bone, with blood.

    and Jesus is before his flesh... Son of God. that's all what Son of God means... God in Flesh. for the spirit never dies, (for it returns to the one who gives it , see Ecclesiastes 12:7), only the FLESH dies, supportive scripture, James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

    not the spirit dies, no, the BODY dies, and return to where it comes from. the body is only a dwelling place for the spirit, or if you get another spirit you could have several dwelling in you, and would qualify for a casting of them out. see it now?. so Son of God is "flesh", the body, and not the Son of Man, but it is the Son of man who dwells in that body. for the body either takes on the idenity of you, or someone else in you. (in short, demon possed). by coming in what we're in a body, that's how God is "WITH" us according to Matthews 1:23, because he was in what we're in... "a body of flesh and blood". supportive scripture, 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."

    God through his prophet Isaiah clearly tells us a "Child"/flesh, (water and blood), is Born, and a "Son"/spirit is given, see Isaiah 9:6.

    PICJAG.
     
  5. YeshuaFan1

    YeshuaFan1 Active Member

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    Jesus was in His Deity eternally existing with the Father, was called the Angel of the Lord in OT!
     
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  6. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    He was the son before he came and is the son now.
    Hasn't lost his sonship and he will always be the son of God the Father.

    Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?
    what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

    How I see it so far.
     
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  7. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Bible_Gazer He is indeed the eternal Son, and gloriously so; Hebrews 1: "Unto the Son, He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever..."
     
  8. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    It is a ridiculous idea that Christ was a active God in the Old Testament.

    What was He called, the Son of God in the Old Testament?

    Was it...
    God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son... Son, not another God, not Himself. Was it the Son of God formally known as.....what? The concept of God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...is lost if Christ was eternal. God so love the world that He sent another God? If you have trouble with what the word begotten means I can help you with that and Bible can help you with that.

    The Jews were looking for a human Messiah. If there was a single thought that the Messiah would be a God...the Son God, the Old Testament scriptures would have little else to talk about. They would be dancing....they would be screaming from the mountain tops... The Old Testament scriptures would be filled with this. The Son of God is coming! Would have been reiterated hundreds of time.

    Christ was begotten....the real Son of God.
     
  9. YeshuaFan1

    YeshuaFan1 Active Member

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    Isaiah and Micah foretold divine messiah!
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    How are you using the term "WITH".

    PICJAG.
     
  11. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Yes lol But did you find it 400 times?
     
  12. YeshuaFan1

    YeshuaFan1 Active Member

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    Before he became incarnated as Jesus, he eternally existed as the Word of the father, also equally Yahweh!
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the reply, second, well Jesus is the only God, so he is Jesus before his incarnation in flesh. but he is the Father, hence equally.

    May I say this. in the beginning "God", STOP. God here is a plurality of ONE, but his plurality was not in the beginning, but was to come in the fulness of time, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." and in Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,". here is when God is a plurality of himself in flesh. and this is bored out in Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" this is why I asked how are you using the term "WITH". because "with" define that Jesus is the Father which is the "EQUAL" SHARE of himself in flesh as the "Son is confirmed in the scriptures. hence the ordinal First, JESUS, LORD, CREATOR, and MAKER of all things was "ALONE", no separate person was "with" him in the beginning. and as the ordinal Last, or the Last Adam, Jesus, Lord is REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR of all things. see the difference in the term "WITH?"

    remember at John 1:1 in his incarnation in flesh, this, and only then did God revealed himself as a plurality, or the Equal "SHARE" of himself in flesh.
    for the WORD was "WITH", meaning the same one person is identified as a plurality of his "ownself" only he is now diversified in flesh as the equal share ... "WITH" God. and bible, the scriptures back this up. just as in John 1:1c, "and the Word was God." he Jesus the word is GOD himself only shared in flesh. and note, it's only ONE GOD. so before God, the Father, the ordinal First became the ordinal last, by taking on flesh and blood was without flesh and blood in the beginning, the same-self one Spirit.

    so the term "with" reveals the same one person as God in time and place. Father, ordinal First Genesis 1:1, and Son, ordinal Last John 1:1.

    hope that clarify what I was asking about. and thanks for your reply and question.

    PICJAG
     
  14. YeshuaFan1

    YeshuaFan1 Active Member

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    Jesus was oln earth talking to Abraham, as bible states the Lord on earth and the Lord in heaven who was pouring out wrath of Sodom!
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    this is Jesus as the ordinal First, (Spirit/Father), and two that was an apperance, and not a Manifestation of himself. understand?

    PICJAG.
     
  16. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    That's called a reading comprehension problem.
     
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  17. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    Jesus own words below declare He was the Son before creation sharing a mutual glory with the Father.

    John 17:1-5
    1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
     
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  18. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    Actually, this is not accurate. The Old Testament does mention the Son of God.

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?1
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.1
    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.1
    7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.1
    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
    (Ps. 2:1-12 KJV)

    The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
    2 Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.
    3 I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.1
    4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Prov. 30:1-4 KJV)
     
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  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    the Son of God is reference in the OT but the son of God is not the Son mention in Psalms above in post #18.

    th Son of Man is the Spirit that came into that body which is called the Son of God. son of God is flesh and bone, ... BORN from Mary's womb. son of Man is spirit, not Born, but come from heaven, (diversified). the son of God is the outward schema, or the house that the Son of Man, (interior schema) dwelled in.

    Son of God is the outward man, (flesh bone and blood), Son of Man is the inward man, (spirit), hence the term "Christ". for the term son of God took on the Name of God in flesh. for he, (God), the Holy Spirit manifested himself in flesh.

    PICJAG.
     
  20. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    You would be incorrect.

    Proverbs 30:4
    Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
     
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