quietthinker
Well-Known Member
have you considered the death of Jesus was our judgement.....our judgement of God, our judgement of ourselves and God's judgement of us.
If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No because that was not what happened. Jesus was crucified and suffered in our place! He was judged and condemned for our sins, IOW He took our place. He suffered in the infinite depths of God forsakenness what all men would have to suffer in the eternity of time.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You really just said JESUS is not a KING with a straight face? You don't question how that's a HUGE problem?
i didn't write the following but it belongs in the thread:
it’s a spiritual kingdom
“But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.”
Matthew 12:28 KJV
Christ is Seated on his throne already it’s why he was taken up to heaven
“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
Acts 2:30, 32-33 KJV
David’s throne of the kingdom is eternal Gods right hand in heaven that’s where Christ is reigning from now. There’s a kingdom in heaven where Christ is seated in the throne. The kingdom follows the king he brought it to earth and we see his word commanding evil spirits , raising the dead , forgiving sins , healing the blind and lame
if the kingdom wasn’t here throne things could t have happened Jesus is seated in the kingdom now earths chaos is because satan was cast out of heaven into earth because Christ has been seated in heaven mt sion and Gods city is In heaven
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV
So when we see scripture like this
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
Revelation 14:1 KJV
it’s showing you Jesus in heaven along with The faithful of Israel’s children.
My sion is in heaven it’s where the kingdom is now when we die who believe we are going to enter into that kingdom d in the end that heavenly kingdom will come to the new earth
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
Revelation 21:1-
The Kingdom was announced on earth so people can enter it.
Something else i didn't write but curious how it is related to satan being bound:
Although Jesus said in John 16:7-11
7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”
{edit in:
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.}
Who gave us (((POWER))) after Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5; 8) on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:2–24) Who said in Isaiah 42:6-7; GNT
“I, the LORD, have called you [John 15:16] and given you (((POWER))) [Received after Holy Spirit baptism; Acts 1:5; 8] to see that justice is done on earth.
(((THROUGH YOU))) I will make a covenant with all peoples;
(((THROUGH YOU))) I will bring light to the nations.
7 (((YOU))) will open the eyes of the blind
and set free those who sit in dark prisons.”
//i think this is saying when satan is loosed he will do something to The Light that we all know is here right now.
Although Jesus said in John 16:7-11
7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”
{edit in:
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.}
Who gave us (((POWER))) after Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5; 8) on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:2–24) Who said in Isaiah 42:6-7; GNT
“I, the LORD, have called you [John 15:16] and given you (((POWER))) [Received after Holy Spirit baptism; Acts 1:5; 8] to see that justice is done on earth.
(((THROUGH YOU))) I will make a covenant with all peoples;
(((THROUGH YOU))) I will bring light to the nations.
7 (((YOU))) will open the eyes of the blind
and set free those who sit in dark prisons.”
//i think this is saying when satan is loosed he will do something to The Light that we all know is here right now.
2 Thessalonians 2 forces everyone to choose between CHRIST came and is Reigning or that satan is destroyed before a 1000 years can happen.
-------------------------------------------
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2 Thessalonians 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
//Why does It start talking about a delusion after the "end of the world"?
-------------------------------------------
2 Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 Thessalonians 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2 Thessalonians 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
//Why does It start talking about a delusion after the "end of the world"?
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Let's look at this again and consider it might be talking about something that already happened:
2 Thessalonians 2
2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
//The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST.
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
//"at hand" means then.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
//seed of satan with The HOLY SPIRIT stepping back to allow it
2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
//70 A.D. The Temple was destroyed.
135 A.D. fall of the whole City, with a false temple with idol built over The Jewish Temple (to jupiter)
equestrian statue of hadrian was installed over the Holy of Holies.
2Th 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
//Why do we think this is talking to us? It sure sounds like he is warning them about an event in their generation.
2Th 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
// JESUS destroyed the son of perdition with The LIGHT of His Coming, not The Return.
2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
//People are under a delusion today ...not after His Return.
2 Thessalonians 2
2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
//The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST.
2Th 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
//"at hand" means then.
2Th 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
//seed of satan with The HOLY SPIRIT stepping back to allow it
2Th 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
//70 A.D. The Temple was destroyed.
135 A.D. fall of the whole City, with a false temple with idol built over The Jewish Temple (to jupiter)
equestrian statue of hadrian was installed over the Holy of Holies.
2Th 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
//Why do we think this is talking to us? It sure sounds like he is warning them about an event in their generation.
2Th 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
// JESUS destroyed the son of perdition with The LIGHT of His Coming, not The Return.
2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
//People are under a delusion today ...not after His Return.
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
When we overcome we take part in The Coming of His Kingdom.
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
When we overcome we take part in The Coming of His Kingdom.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, Paul maintains that the notion that the Kingdom has already come is a false notion.
2 Thes 2.1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
Jesus also prohibited his Disciples from listening to those who claimed the Kingdom has secretly entered in among the people.
Matt 24.26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."
Jesus did take away the paraphernalia of the worship under the Law, but he did not establish the eschatological Kingdom. We should distinguish between the "Hope of Israel," the eschatological Messianic Kingdom, from temporal forms of God's Kingdom on earth, which is what Israel had in the form of the Davidic theocracy. That Kingdom was taken away from them when the temple worship was destroyed and when Christ was crucified. And that temporal Kingdom was given to the European Peoples through the preaching of the Gospel.
But this is not to be confused with the eschatological Messianic Kingdom, which is "near," but not yet "here." We are waiting for Jesus to Return, at which time he will restore His temporal Kingdom with Israel, and also with all nations who embrace him.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
you might like to reconsider the considering
Don't have to. Unless you have some very subtle point you are trying to make.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes! and no there is no problem.
This is not Jesus" kingdom, but the Fathers!
Yes Jesus is risen but has yet to sit on the throne, He is at the right hand of the Father. The heavenly kingdom belongs to God the Father. It is the millennial kingdom that Jesus reigns as king over! At the end of that 1,000 years Jesus yields back the kingdom!
1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
We do "kingdom things" because we have the authority of the king through the Holy Spirit! Satan has yet to be cast out of heaven.
REv. 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Satans expulsion from heaven occurs during the mid point of the 70th week of Daniel which is still future.
Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Jesus is king of kings and Lord of Lords, but has yet to begin His reign.
He currently is everliving to make intercession for the saints and preparing a place for us in His Fathers house.
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Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:48-51
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:48-51
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
How can the Promises of Infinite Rule be Eternal if we expect them to occur in a finite timeframe before the New Earth?
Isn't the end goal for GOD'S Presence to be with us Ruling for Infinity?
You really think GOD is going to mess around with a 1000 year period where there are those that don't have GOD'S Presence and can be deceived by satan when he is loosed?
Isn't the end goal for GOD'S Presence to be with us Ruling for Infinity?
You really think GOD is going to mess around with a 1000 year period where there are those that don't have GOD'S Presence and can be deceived by satan when he is loosed?
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Everyone wants the martyrs and priests to rule in the Millennium Reign, but JESUS said we rule by helping/loving the poor and forgiving/loving our enemies. The Millennium Reign is now.
We follow JESUS with The Gospel of The Kingdom where He is Reigning Now.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
further...
Our judgement of God....this is what we do when somebody truely righteous and loving comes to be with us.
Our judgement of ourselves.... we reveal what is truly in our hearts.
God's judgement of us.... we are loved and valued to such an extent the Creator is prepared to give is life.
We inherit The Kingdom for Infinity on the New Earth, not a thousand years. We become Citizens now.
Sounds like The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST:
Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:17,19,20
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Sounds like The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST:
Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:17,19,20
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
It get's tricky with The Coming vs The Return.
The Coming of CHRIST'S Reign has already started:
Ecclesiastes 1:3-4
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
The Olivet Discourse
Matthew 24:33-35
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Did Heaven and earth already pass away with The Gospel continuing on?
The Coming of CHRIST'S Reign has already started:
Ecclesiastes 1:3-4
What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
The Olivet Discourse
Matthew 24:33-35
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Did Heaven and earth already pass away with The Gospel continuing on?
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