If you want to stop sinning.

[marks]

When I get angry, no amount of "correct thinking" is going to keep me from venting and letting it out somehow, and it will not be pretty.

Maybe the short answer . . . right thinking about our reconciliation to God keeps us trusting Him freely, which gives opportunity for the Holy Spirit to empower our new lives, and His power in our lives is the Love, joy, peace, kindness, patience, you know these, that as we live this way, we don't become angry in the first place.

And even if we do, this kind of trust restores us back to our godly lives immediately.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are things I disagree with in every denomination and branch of Christianity. That said, I agree with you. At the heart of it, when people believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and call on Him together and sense a Spirit of brotherhood about each other, that supersedes any spirit of division, and works to find common ground.

If doctrine were the end-all, be-all of finding unity, those who belong to the Lord would never truly come together. But it is through the Spirit that the brethren recognize one another, and through the Spirit that sort through differences to find the truth.

Very well stated!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

The challenge we all have is the decision to give up that which we love. Once we decide that we want to live a holy life... once we are willing to be made whole, to give up that lust, to forsake that evil habit, and we reach out to God in faith believing that He has the power to recreate us in the image of His Son, then God can and does work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. It's the desire to sin we must overcome... The battle against self...The power not to sin is up to God. The just shall live by faith.
We can do all things through Christ Who strengthens us.

I'm more of the mind that we don't actually love sin. The flesh loves sin, and in order to have it, deceives us into thinking that we:

Love sin.
Want to sin.
Can't stop sinning.

I think that when we see desires for that which is sin, to say, along with Paul, it is no longer I, but sin that lives in me, and realize that we don't have to do this.

The internal pressures to sin, a rising temper, a rising covetousness, whatever it may be, we realize, this isn't me. I'm alive in Christ. I have Christ, with all He can do, living in me!

Our flesh will never stop wanting sin. Our spirit never does want sin. We need to understand what part of our life experience comes from the mind of the flesh, and what is from the mind of Christ, and of course the Bible will show us that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You see being "in Christ" as a mental state, in particular as it relates to your sins. I see it as a practical reality that either is or isn't, depending on one's spiritual state.

I don't think you are understanding this correctly.

In Christ is where we are made alive, made righteous, recreated without sin, or the stain of sin, or the desire for sin. Those things are found in the flesh, not the new spirit.

But in our minds, we still tend to think as though we were still the flesh-man, with desire to sin, with evil lusts, with hard hearts, with no power. So we need to renew our minds.

We're like men with billions of $ in the bank, but live homeless because we don't believe it. It's real. It's there. But if you aren't thinking that way, believing that way, you don't live that way.

The practical reality - In Christ is no sin - that which is born of God sins not - when we don't see these in our lives, it's not because these passages are wrong, it's because we aren't living our new life. And whatever reason we have for not living that new life, I believe it's found in the mind, our thinking, our believing, and we need to have our minds renewed.

So that our lives will show the work God has done in our spirits.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We start from a position of having already attained total victory over all sin, not through anything we have or can do but through what Christ has done for us on the cross.

Perfect!!

Sin is ALREADY defeated in us! If we aren't living with victory, it's because we don't know it, not because it's not true!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Those Scriptures were not about getting victory. They were refuting the false teaching of Behold. He claimed that Christians are not exhorted to stop sinning, or to resist sin, which is contrary to the Word.

If your resistance of sin, I'm not saying that yours is, just if, you resistance to sin is entirely by the strengthening of your determination to not commit that act, you will have a battle on your hands, and you may win or lose.

Faith overcomes sin in every case. The battle is to endure in faith while the flesh tries to convince you otherwise.

Having a list of sins and being determined not to commit them is good, however, the real weapons are not carnal, and involve taking thoughts captive to serve Christ, that is, the battle for the mind.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

The correct thinking is that there is no impediment between God and me... That my sins are once and for all forever forgiven, all of them, past present future everything forgiven, because God wants to have an intimate love relationship with me, and didn't want my sin to stand in the way. So He removed it in Christ, giving me Christ's righteousness, and now I am His son, a Father son relationship.

This part I agree with, so long as I remain under His Lordship as His son and His servant.

that I am fully and permanently reconciled to Him. Trusting in the finished work of the cross.

This part I do not, but that does not mean one can easily put one's salvation in jeopardy.

When I walk in His Spirit, the life of Christ is produced in my life, and I do not sin. I'm trusting in Jesus for His life lived through mine. By faith we are saved, and by that same faith we have access (perfect tense, btw) to the grace in which we stand.

Yes, by faith we have access, but now, that does not necessarily mean we will appropriate it in all instances. See, at the heart of things, I believe it is a moment by moment affair, just like with any other relationship on earth. His grace must be appropriated by faith through prayer. It is not a given that we can take for granted. But again, this is in reference to sin, not salvation or our relationship, any more than in the natural between an earthly father and son.

If I'm communing with God, I don't get that kind of angry. When I'm not in that communion, that's when I do.

Ah, but now, some are more emotional than others, you would admit, yes? I consider myself to be amongst the most emotional people I know, and with virtually no way to keep from manifesting it whether good or bad. So for me, yes, the only answer is that my emotions be those of the Spirit of God; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc. But when I am not, the manifestations of anger will be more pronounced, and that much more easily identifiable as sin, and thus not of God.

Trust me. I sought to abide in such "communion with God" for years. It is an exceedingly difficult thing to do to reach that level of spirituality continually. Life's affairs will crowd in on you, especially if you are a threat to the enemy. He will attack you and make your life miserable in many ways. But yes, in principle I agree with the above. Only in practical terms it is easier said than done, for all but the hermit.

But beyond getting through sin, getting past sin, knowing that none of those sins, and nothing of what seems the power of the flesh have any power to prevent my communion with my Father, while that communion with my Father has power to prevent all of those sins.

For me, it's not about controlling my temper or other fleshy passions, it's more about remaining in communion with God, know that His presence in me is truly the right answer against sin.

This is the same "state of mind" that I walk in, only I see this as a different thing than a mentality that dismisses sin as "already dealt with." The above speaks of still having a consciousness of sin; the latter does not.

 

[marks]

It comes off as a psychological counterfeit to actual New Testament teaching.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Colossians 3:9-10
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Actually, changing our thinking is exactly how we are changed to live more like the people we've become.

I'm not the one producing spiritual fruit, I'm just offering myself to God for Him to produce fruit, not my fruit, but the Spirit's fruit.

It's not my power putting sin to rest within me, it's God's power, and I avail myself of God's power by trusting Him. Trusting Him "looks like" having a reliance on God that He has in fact killed me, and raised me back to live outside of the power and stain of sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

His grace must be appropriated by faith through prayer.

He's already given His grace to us in Christ.

If you are trying to receive something you already have . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Trust me. I sought to abide in such "communion with God" for years. It is an exceedingly difficult thing to do to reach that level of spirituality continually.

I'd sooner trust Jesus.

I get it. It's not something we necessarily easily do. However . . . what I've found is that the Bible tells me to trust Him and He will give me abundant life. I've found that as I trust Him . . . moment by moment, yes, we are very agreed on that! As I trust Him, He gives me abundant life.

Only in practical terms it is easier said than done, for all but the hermit.

Agreed! Except about that hermit exclusion. I see the real problem to be in the deceiptful lusts of the flesh. Yes, the world, the powers of evil, these intrude. I find that what they seem to do is to incite the flesh. And the flesh itself has it's own incitements.

I think that when we commit sin, we hold it against ourselves even though God doesn't. That's not trusting Him.

Trusting Him, we remain in fellowship with Him.

But again, this is moment by moment. I've had to learn to be sensitive to my fellowship with God, and to refocus when I realize my mind is drifting away. Practice practice practice!

And to be sure, I'm not just talking about avoiding sin, but all aspects of the Christian life. Trusting in Jesus produces the walk in His pre-ordained works.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is the same "state of mind" that I walk in, only I see this as a different thing than a mentality that dismisses sin as "already dealt with." The above speaks of still having a consciousness of sin; the latter does not.

Are you saying you are still under the power of sin? I can't imagine you thinking that way!

And if we are no longer under the power of sin, then, we're not.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Ephesians 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, Mark. But the next verse says, "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another." As I've told you, the teaching here is on becoming members of ONE body spiritually while the language is in the plural, so the emphasis is not on individuals somehow "renewing the spirit of their minds" unto holiness and righteousness individually, but on them collectively doing so because they are now members of one body, having received an outpouring and operating in supernatural gifts from the SAME SPIRIT. This is why I was telling you that true NT Christianity and true NT "holiness" is not going to be achieved outside of the outpouring. You mean well, but you reinterpret passages like this to suit a theology that is actually foreign to the text. Look closely; the Colossians passage is the same. The renewing of mind is about how they were now to treat one another, not about how "free of sin" they were individually.

'm not the one producing spiritual fruit, I'm just offering myself to God for Him to produce fruit, not my fruit, but the Spirit's fruit.

It's not my power putting sin to rest within me, it's God's power

On this much we perfectly agree.

the Bible tells me to trust Him and He will give me abundant life. I've found that as I trust Him . . . moment by moment, yes, we are very agreed on that! As I trust Him, He gives me abundant life.

Absolutely.

I think that when we commit sin, we hold it against ourselves even though God doesn't. That's not trusting Him.

Some maybe. Not me, LoL. I'm in some ways a truly wretched individual. But in spite of it, I am always putting things behind me without another thought and pressing on towards the mark of the high calling of Christ.

And to be sure, I'm not just talking about avoiding sin, but all aspects of the Christian life. Trusting in Jesus produces the walk in His pre-ordained works.

So am I.

Are you saying you are still under the power of sin? I can't imagine you thinking that way!

No. I'm saying I am still conscious (and continually) of right and wrong.

 

[Behold]

But I think your theology is still in the diaper stage here. Hebrews 13:9 was spoken specifically in reference to the Jews having a righteousness

Hebrews 13:9, written by Paul, explains why you have 40,000 Denominations.
It explains why Mary is worshipped, and cults are born.
It explains why 99% of the body of Christ is "fallen from Grace".
it explains the term "rabbit hole theology".

So, put on your big boy diapers, and see if you can figure that out, Hidden in him, and once you do, if you do, you'll then understand what im doing here.

 

[Behold]

Mark, I am very grateful if this approach works for you and others like you. But I still feel duty bound to counter it by saying it most certainly doesn't work for someone with a personality like mine. When I get angry, no amount of "correct thinking" is going to keep me from venting and letting it out somehow, and it will not be pretty. This alone flies in the face of common sense, so I have no choice but to stand up and say that if it works for some, it most certainly does not work for all.

Having a personal self control issue, as you are self describing, is not the same as having a "confessing and sinning" and repeat it, all your Christian life,.. issue.

 

[Behold]

because we "GROW UP"."

Listen 101G,

THere are many on this forum who love Jesus and are sold out, and want to please God, always.
So, they are not "immature", as the reason they are sinning and confessing.
What has happened to them, is that they have been taught wrong in the beginning of their walk wth God, and have continued in this.... having no other teacher to show them what was wrong.

The reality check is this....... Paul said...>"be a follower of ME< as i follow Christ".
So, he is our discipleship pattern, and he is our understanding of how to see the Light.
And once you become involved intimately with Paul's theology, which is nearly all of the NT, and all the Church doctrine, then you are there, where you belong, and the Light will flow.
But not until.

 

[marks]

Yes, Mark. But the next verse says, "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another." As I've told you, the teaching here is on becoming members of ONE body spiritually while the language is in the plural, so the emphasis is not on individuals somehow "renewing the spirit of their minds" unto holiness and righteousness individually, but on them collectively doing so because they are now members of one body, having received an outpouring and operating in supernatural gifts from the SAME SPIRIT. This is why I was telling you that true NT Christianity and true NT "holiness" is not going to be achieved outside of the outpouring. You mean well, but you reinterpret passages like this to suit a theology that is actually foreign to the text. Look closely; the Colossians passage is the same. The renewing of mind is about how they were now to treat one another, not about how "free of sin" they were individually.

It begins with me.

I cannot minister to you unless it is from the Spirit. My flesh will not benefit you. Only as the Spirit is living through me.

As we renew our minds - as my mind is renewed, I'm living more in the Spirit, as are you with your renewed mind, and this mean we will be living according to the true facts about us, that we are united with God and therefore united to each other. Our unity exists now in Christ, and we will experience our unity as we come to believe it's real. The renewing of the mind.

As we each of us grow in Christ, we grow together in Him.

You teach we cannot be holy - until we get more, sometime in the future. I teach we have all we need now in the Holy Spirit, and can live holy lives now.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

There are many bible verses that tell us we will be judged on the things we have done.

-

Cristo Rei...

There are no bible verses that teach that you will face God as your Judge in eternity, if you are Born Again.

Why, ???? because you can't.

Let me explain.

God in Eternity, and currently.... is the JUDGE of the Christ REJECTOR.......and that is the only reason a person will go to hell, and then the lake of fire.
John 3:36.

God does not judge anyone for any sin, after they die, except for Rejecting Christ.
If your name is not in the Lamb's book of Life, its because you died a CHRIST Rejector.
And why only that one sin, Cristo Rei? Because that is the unpardonable sin. That is the only sin, that the Blood of Jesus can't resolve and hasn't already.
And why? Because when the blood of Jesus has been rejected,= (never born again, and died)... there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
See, if you reject the pardon, you die un-pardoned....Christ is the Pardon. = And that is the un-pardonable sin, that every unbeliever living on earth.... is currently committing.
John 3:36
And if they die, as that Christ Rejector, having rejected God's sacrifice for their sin, then they themselves will pay for Rejecting Christ, as their eternity.
= That is HELL then the Lake of FIRE.
So, that is how you meet God as your eternal JUDGE.....>Just commit the unpardonable sin of Rejecting Christ, and die.

WHEREAS...

The Born again always exist as SINLESS. "made righteous"..."ONE with God and Christ"....>"As CHRIST IS...so are the born again...IN THIS WORLD"......at all times.
We the born again, (not the water baptized) but the BORN AGAIN.....are always, "the righteousness of God in Christ"... Today, Tomorrow, and FOREVER.
That is who we are, as the the born again.. ."IN Christ".

So, what does that mean?
It means that God can't judge the born again for sin in Heaven, after you die, if you are born again, because God has already JUDGED CHRIST for all your sin, on that CROSS.....ON EARTH.

See that, Reader?
God does not judge your sin TWICE.
He had already judged it all, if you are born again.
God will not judge YOU< in eternity, as Jesus has been judged for your sin already, on the CROSS.

That is WHY you will only meet God as your FATHER, after you die, or in the Rapture.
"ABBA".
"Daddy".

 

[Behold]

I've found the only way to stop sinning is to sail down that river in Egypt.

Our soul is where a born-again believer's sin issues originate from.
It is my experience that Luke 9:23 addresses this issue.

Truman Ron..

Carrying your Cross, is a particular phrase that is related to discipleship.
Has nothing to do with why you sin and confess and can't stop.
Notice in your verse, and those 2 that follow, that Jesus hasn't died on the Cross yet.
There is no Blood Atonement yet.
No one is born again Yet.

So, you have to be careful when you look at the words of Christ, or any verses, that are given before He was raised on the Cross, as more often then not, He's aiming the words at the Jews, as "the time of the Gentiles" was not there yet.

An example? = You can follow Christ all your life, and die and go to hell.
Why?
Because you were not born again.
See, "following Christ" is only discipleship.
Being "ONE with God and Christ" is Salvation, and you have to have THAT, to go to heaven.

 

[Truman]

Good post, Ron.

FYI My first name actually is Truman. I recently decided to start using it instead of my middle name, which is Ron. I thought if I went to just Truman right away, people might not recognize me. Shalom.

 

[marks]

No. I'm saying I am still conscious (and continually) of right and wrong.

I figured that must be what you meant.

Having a consciousness of right and wrong, I'm not saying we lose that. I think it becomes much more refined, in fact! To me, the wrong isn't so much that I've yelled at my wife. The wrong is that I stopped loving her with God's love, in that moment. Had I remained loving her with God's love, I wouldn't have lost my patience, which led to me losing my gentleness, and my self-control.

So to remain loving is my real goal. I know that God has outpoured His love into my heart, I like the KJV here, it's slightly interpretive, but I think catches the real intent of the passage, the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts. Because God put it there to be a torrent of living water flooding out from us.

That's God's intent, and that's His action, so if I remain in the Spirit, by trusting that Jesus has done EVERYTHING needed to make that possible, then I remain loving, I remain patient, and gentle, and self-controlled. And my poor sweet dear wife gets a break!

You mean well, but you reinterpret passages like this to suit a theology that is actually foreign to the text.

Nicely said, but no . . . I'm just looking at the passages themselves.

For instance . . . In Romans 12:2, being conformed to this age, being transformed, proving God's will, these are plural. Renewing the mind is singular. There's a discussion to had about that, at the moment to say, it's not so cut and dried.

In Ephesians 4 . . . if the putting on the new man is something the church does collectively, is then also putting off lying what the church does collectively? Is that to say that all in the church are liars? Be angry and sin not . . . plural.

I've just been reviewing singular/plural in these passages, Colossians 4, Ephesians 4,

Just to show a short section,

Colossians 3:5-15
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6) For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7) In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8) But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

These are all written in plural. This is one of the beauties of the KJV, it shows plural 2nd person pronouns with YE and singular with YOU.

So then I suppose the question is . . . are these things which are done collectively by the church, or are these instructions that apply to each and every one of us?

My reading is that these are things I myself do as according to what is appropriate. "We" don't put off lying, the liar puts of lying. "We" do if we are liars, but even so, it's done by each of us individually.

Again . . . this isn't "lone ranger" Christianity. But I'm recognizing that God has made promises to me personally, which He is fulfilling to me personally.

Maybe some people have not discovered that it really IS possible to overcome sin, and have concluded, "I'm still missing the part that will make it all work for me."

But God has given us His great and precious promises, through them we have everything for life and godliness. This is true for me, and true for you!

Much love!