If you want to stop sinning.

[Hidden In Him]

See, the person who is condemned, who has the sinning issue, .. confesses to try to feel better, and get that "clean feeling" back.
So, that is just a believer's personal religious psyche game you're playing with yourself, if you are doing that, because its based on not understanding anything about "the gift of righteousness" or the Blood Atonement, or being "in Christ".

We really approach it from two entirely different theological backgrounds, Behold. You see being "in Christ" as a mental state, in particular as it relates to your sins. I see it as a practical reality that either is or isn't, depending on one's spiritual state. The one place we likely agree is that a true believer doesn't have that much to worry about where salvation is concerned, but I do not confess sin to try and feel better. I confess sin to acknowledge my guilt for my own sake, primarily. It doesn't effect my salvation, but it is a way of rightfully acknowledging that I have done wrong, as a way of keeping myself on track, and going in the right direction.

I think those from your perspective operate under the assumption that people like me have a relationship with God that is hopelessly in flux rather than stable because we ask for forgiveness of sin whenever we commit it, but that's not the case. I'm not with God one minute and without Him the next, nor is my salvation in question, but I think sin should be addressed in prayer. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin to keep us growing in the right direction, not once and for all before we get saved, but throughout the course of our entire lives.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The sinning and confessing christian diaper stage, is when you dont exist HERE = Hebrews 13:9

I don't think you mean this insultingly (although it somewhat is), so what I will say next isn't meant to be insulting either, and hopefully you don't take it that way. But I think your theology is still in the diaper stage here. Hebrews 13:9 was spoken specifically in reference to the Jews having a righteousness that was based on not eating unclean foods. To develop a theology around this verse as if it has any relevance to today's world is to operate under a delusion, and a blatant misconception. No one is believing themselves to have a righteousness based on what they eat, so it has no direct parallel to anything going on in the real world today, aside from maybe among Jews. And the application of this teaching over into somehow saying that works are not in order in the Christian life is equally in error, but this is a separate issue that doesn't relate to your verse, and to make it relate is to have a sort of tunnel vision on one theological talking point, at the expense of analyzing scriptures in light of themselves and their own particular context.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you try doing this you will find this is true.

Thinking correctly, according to Scripture, drains the power of sin. We reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. Since that's what we are, we live accordingly.

Be it to you according to your faith.

Mark, I am very grateful if this approach works for you and others like you. But I still feel duty bound to counter it by saying it most certainly doesn't work for someone with a personality like mine. When I get angry, no amount of "correct thinking" is going to keep me from venting and letting it out somehow, and it will not be pretty. This alone flies in the face of common sense, so I have no choice but to stand up and say that if it works for some, it most certainly does not work for all.

 

[101G]

So, to stop sinning, is not to have faith in God.
To have faith in God, is to be saved..........but, how do you stop sinning after you are saved.

This means, you are currently trying to do for yourself,

both are error, to stop sinning is a learned behaviour, scripture, Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

let is a learned condition. an ACT OF THE WILL. sin is spiritual, (takes place in the thoughts), and when it manifest in our bodies, (the act), that's the iniquity we see.

understand, as a learned behavior, one change one mind, and that don't happen over night. other words one must replace one's thought, and it patterns.

point, when looking at, or in lust after a woman, that's the sin. when you two act out the "THOUGHTS", the WORKS of the Flesh, (such as adultery,ect...), then the Sin is Manifested, better known as iniquity.

so to stop sin, is to change the way one thinks, which is a behavior pattern. hence an intergration of new thoughts. this is the basic of Good and Evil, you're in contol.

as with anything, you learn how to cuss. well the reverse, you learn how not to cuss.... hence Roman 6:12 "Let not sin", and let is a learned condition of the MIND.

as with sin, it's not a feeling, that's the deception, meaning a result. sin is not about a feeling, but about "FAITH". and here's the scripture to prove it, Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." HELLO, BINGO. so Faith just don't ONLY save you, and with Faith, it's a growing behavior, that is LEARNED... scripture, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;"2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
KNOWLEDGE is A LEARNED CONDITION OF ONE'S MIND, BINGO, and in this LEARNING peocess we learn not to sin. for Christ is the author and finisher of our FAITH.

and the reason why we sin... Colossians 3:10 "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:" a LACK of KNOWLEDGE, my people perish for the LACK of KNOWLEDGE.

when ye know better ye do better.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Behold]

Behold. You see being "in Christ" as a mental state,.

Get your mind right, and your discipleship will surely follow.

 

[Billy Evmur]

No, i dont see it that way, and i dont teach it that way, HiddeninHim.
If you read the Thread carefully, you would know that already.

Here is what i teach.... regarding how to stop sinning.

Being "in Christ" : is to be "One with God and Christ", which is to be born again INTO God's Spirit by God's Spirit.

Now, in that place, is the Kingdom of God found, and in that Spirituality, we find "the mind of Christ", as the proper mind, that is the "renew your mind" that we are instructed to Do.

So, we the born again, are always this........= "AS JESUS IS.....so are the born again.....IN THIS WORLD"..
This means, we are always exactly like that, as this is our "new creation" "in Christ" Status as a Son of God.

Now, a NT verse tells you to "work our your Salvation"...but it does not tell you to keep yourself saved.
It tells you to work out what you have.......SALVATION......Philippians 2:12 which means, you are to learn HOW to exit within this Grace of God.
And you do that, in your Head, by Right Believing.
And duly note that you are told to work out what you already have, after Philippians 1:6, explains why you have it.
Be sure to study that, as its a divine revelation....

See, its simple....but most believers are not taught to see themselves correctly as "in Christ"..., or to understand that they are to exist in that place of mind, that is the renewed mind.
When have you ever sat in a Church, and the Pulpit said..>>"today im going to teach you how to understand how to exist in the right mind, that is the renewed mind, that is to walk in the Spirit, when you do it.
A.) Never.
You had to find me on a Forum to even think about this....and yet, this is Christianity Fundamentals of the Faith, "milk".
And that is why im here.
I know that believers are taught nothing they have to KNOW.....in their Church.
This is why I teach it online, in life, in church, to groups, everywhere, as believers worldwide, are not given what they need to know, that really really matters the most.

See, God didnt save you with His own Blood, so that you can exist in the same carnality, as an unbeliever.
The only difference is, you feel bad when you sin, and they enjoy sinning.
Understand?

So, until you learn to exist in the RIGHT MIND, you are not walking in the Spirit, you are walking "in the Flesh".
To Walk in the Flesh, is what you do in your MIND....where you exist within your perspective as your thinking.

So, wrong thinking, related to God's Grace, is wrong BELIEVING, ...and all that is MENTAL, HEAD SPACE.......

LISTEN......."AS YOU THINK< so you are", according to God's word.
Do you think you are a sinner who is going to sin and confess......then you will, as that is what you think, which is what you believe.
You ARE, what you believe you are.....
Understand? That's how it works, so you have to BELIEVE RIGHT to exist RIGHTEOUSLY, = as your discipleship.
There is no other way.
This means we, the born again, (not the water baptized) have to adjust our THINKING< which is our BELIEVING, OUR MIND>.. so that it aligns perfectly with God's perspective, which is the Mind of Christ.

Until this happens, the believer is going to keep sinning and repenting, and they will believe they can lose their salvation, and the worst of these, will be on Forums and in Pulpits teaching their deception.

See, when we dont operate correctly in the Kingdom of God with the RIGHT MIND...we will be easy prey for the skilled deceivers, who are teaching the Devil's Gospel.

When a person wants to stop the sinning and confessing and existing within failed discipleship, they have to go here......Hebrews 13:9 and live in that verse, as the beginning of their deliverance.
That verse has to become a life verse.

Great stuff

 

[Behold]

both are error, to stop sinning is a learned behaviour, scripture,
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

If to stop sinning is something you learn to do, then why are you still confessing your sin?
How long have you been born again?
So, do you see the problem with your theology?

Listen...if its not working and years are passing, then the way you get out of that hole is to stop digging.

Listen to me,...

""""Be RENEWED, IN.....the Spirit of your MIND""".

See that?

'MIND"
"MIND"
"MIND"
"MIND"
"MIND"

IN YOUR MIND, = BE RENWED.......= RIGHT BELIEVING VS WRONG Believing.
"Walking in the Light as Jesus is in the Light."
Put on the MIND of Christ.. = Philippians 2:5

When you believe wrong, you live wrong.
When you believe Right, you Live RIGHT, = as your Discipleship
If you do that, then the sinning issue, becomes UNDER the dominion of the Grace of God, and that is how you stop.

IF you dont do that, then you live under the dominion of the law, and "the LAW is the power of SIN".

"power of sin" = empowers your "flesh" to be out of control = sin and confess, sin and repent...... repeat.

Get your MIND RIGHT, by believing right.

What is the Right Mind?
Its to only and always SEE YOURSELF< as God sees you, at all times.

AS, "the righteousness of God, in Christ". '""Made Righteous".

 

[101G]

If to stop sinning is something you learn to do, the why are you still confessing your sin?

because we "GROW UP".

1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

and one don't become a man overnight

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Billy Evmur]

*Behold* (another misnomer) evidently is wiser than both Christ and Paul, both of whom have commanded Christians to both resist sin, and strive not to sin.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (Jn 8:11)
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (Rom 6:13)
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (Rom 7:17)
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Rom 14:23)
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body (1 Cor 6:18)
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. (1 Cor 8:12)
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. (1 Cor 15:34)

Such foolish statements (as quoted above) come either from (a) ignorance or (b) a desire to deceive. Could in fact be both.

You cannot even begin to get victory with these scriptures until you understand the truths Behold is sharing.

We start from a position of having already attained total victory over all sin, not through anything we have or can do but through what Christ has done for us on the cross. How do we wash our robes and make them white? through washing them in the blood of the Lamb.

... no other way.

 

[Enoch111]

You cannot even begin to get victory with these scriptures until you understand the truths Behold is sharing.

Those Scriptures were not about getting victory. They were refuting the false teaching of Behold. He claimed that Christians are not exhorted to stop sinning, or to resist sin, which is contrary to the Word.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No, i dont see it that way, and i dont teach it that way, HiddeninHim.
If you read the Thread carefully, you would know that already.

Here is what i teach.... regarding how to stop sinning.

Being "in Christ" : is to be "One with God and Christ", which is to be born again INTO God's Spirit by God's Spirit.

Now, in that place, is the Kingdom of God found, and in that Spirituality, we find "the mind of Christ", as the proper mind, that is the "renew your mind" that we are instructed to Do.

Ok, LoL. Then primarily a mental state. You see, you are already turning immediately back to focusing upon the "mind of Christ" in terms of its relation to ceasing from sin. I know you don't think the Spirit plays no part, trust me. You are more Biblically sound than that. But your emphasis is on always on the mental state as the real key. It shines through in nearly every post (Post #47 as well, again). I do not. I hold that our focus should be on the Spirit Himself.

So what was your response to the rest of my post?

Hebrews 13:9 was spoken specifically in reference to the Jews having a righteousness that was based on not eating unclean foods. To develop a theology around this verse as if it has any relevance to today's world is to operate under a... misconception.

 

[Cristo Rei]

My mistake. I should say If they depend on being born again through baptism as infants . . . .
The devil believes in Christ. Is he saved?

That's a poor comparison given the devil is not human...

First, you say that our faith in Christ is all that is required to be saved. But then u say if you don't believe that then u won't be saved.
Talk about a contradiction

 

[Cristo Rei]

You can't approach God with "works".
This is religion.
Religion is : trying to approach God by SELF effort. Its trying to become like God, by SELF.

Jesus said you can only come to God though HIM.
The reason? He is the only "way". John 14:6
Reason? He is God, on the Cross, providing ONLY what God accepts to allow YOU or ME to "approach".

So, you idea of trying to approach God by your "works", is religious idealism that is not related to Christianity.
Jude defines what you believe as "the error of Cain".

There are many bible verses that tell us we will be judged on the things we have done.
To reach your conclusion one must ignore them or have convincing explanations for them all...
And from what iv seen, those explanations aren't convincing at all for verses such as these...

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad... 2 Corinthians 5:10

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you... Matthew 7:2

And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done... Revelation 20:12

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”... Romans 2:6

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous... Romans 2:12-13

Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear... 1 Peter 1:17

Have u ever asked yourself if it's possible that you're wrong? Tell me about it...

 

[Cristo Rei]

Can't help recalling a comment someone made a while back, he said
"Some protestants are still protesting"

It feels like a really cheap explanation to these debates but there is nothing else that I can see which is driving them...


So there is a level of hostility towards the RCC. Why? I keep recalling something else I once heard which was
"They're jealous of the RCC"

Again, this feels like a cheap argument but I can't find any other motives.
It certainly doesn't appear to be anything done out of love or concern, only to try and prove who is right and who is wrong...


Y'all don't go around debating Muslims or atheists or any other people who disagree with you... Only the Catholics...
Their beliefs should not be interfering with yours so why the hostile belligerence or heavy focus on them?

You don't go around debating Jews, Muslims or anyone else who disagrees with you...
So the only motives that I can see driving these actions are: pride, jealousy, hate, anger

 

[Truman]

I've found the only way to stop sinning is to sail down that river in Egypt.
It is my understanding that when one is born-again, it is one's spirit that is reborn.
A one-time event.
We are spirit, soul, and body.
Our soul is where a born-again believer's sin issues originate from.
It is my experience that Luke 9:23 addresses this issue.
The way of a sinner is difficult, but with God's help, doable.
God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[Brakelite]

Mark, I am very grateful if this approach works for you and others like you. But I still feel duty bound to counter it by saying it most certainly doesn't work for someone with a personality like mine. When I get angry, no amount of "correct thinking" is going to keep me from venting and letting it out somehow, and it will not be pretty. This alone flies in the face of common sense, so I have no choice but to stand up and say that if it works for some, it most certainly does not work for all.

I think that if we were honest with ourselves, we would discover that we all have, or have had in the past, attitudes and habits that we struggled with. For a long time with me my struggle was with tobacco. I had been able to give it up for a month or so, but in certain circumstances, triggers, I returned to it like a dog to his vomit. I knew it stank to everyone nearby. I knew that the foul stench drifted a long way and forced others to breathe poisonous fumes against their will. I knew it was killing me. But try as I might, I could do nothing to stay away. I'm talking years here. And then after much prayer and honesty, I finally realised the reason I couldn't fully quit was because I enjoyed it. I was trying to give up to honour God but couldn't in my own strength. I truly wasn't willing, despite my vain attempts, to stop. My issue wasn't with tobacco, it was with me. I realised also that I couldn't suddenly switch to being someone who hated tobacco, such a change in my deepest make-up needed to come from God. So the only answer was surrender. That's when I found victory. Some now may ask, what about secular people who are able to give up? I would answer "praise God". God cares about secular people also, but because they aren't in a relationship with God He needs to approach them different. With me, I needed to learn a lesson. Dependence. We are all different. Except for one thing. We all have baggage that does need to be overcome and left at the foot of the cross. And yes, we cannot "imagine" we no longer sin. It must be real. Pretending does not draw anyone to Jesus. When telling others that they can overcome addictions, that God is able to help with all their weaknesses and sorrows, we must be able to testify and/or demonstrate the real experiential life changing power of the gospel.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Can't help recalling a comment someone made a while back, he said
"Some protestants are still protesting"

It feels like a really cheap explanation to these debates but there is nothing else that I can see which is driving them...

I don't know that they're jealous, but this much I fully agree with. Baptist doctrine and evangelism in particular is directed specifically at Catholicism, as if it alone is the one enemy of men's thinking. As you know, I'm not fully in agreement with Catholic theology either, but that mode of presentation seems tremendously outdated at this point. We have entered into a society now where no one CARES about such matters - most are blatantly NON-Christian, and the talking points should be ones of how to address the unbeliever, not the Catholic or someone somehow under Catholic influence. If anything, the typical Catholic has far more in common with them than those they should be trying to reach, and yet Catholics are still the target; a target that is slowly dying out just like they are in a world turning to atheism, agnosticism, and secularist apathy towards all religion in general.

Y'all don't go around debating Muslims or atheists or any other people who disagree with you... Only the Catholics...
Their beliefs should not be interfering with yours so why the hostile belligerence or heavy focus on them?

Exactly.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've found the only way to stop sinning is to sail down that river in Egypt.
It is my understanding that when one is born-again, it is one's spirit that is reborn.
A one-time event.
We are spirit, soul, and body.
Our soul is where a born-again believer's sin issues originate from.
It is my experience that Luke 9:23 addresses this issue.
The way of a sinner is difficult, but with God's help, doable.
God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Good post, Ron.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think that if we were honest with ourselves, we would discover that we all have, or have had in the past, attitudes and habits that we struggled with. For a long time with me my struggle was with tobacco. I had been able to give it up for a month or so, but in certain circumstances, triggers, I returned to it like a dog to his vomit. I knew it stank to everyone nearby. I knew that the foul stench drifted a long way and forced others to breathe poisonous fumes against their will. I knew it was killing me. But try as I might, I could do nothing to stay away. I'm talking years here. And then after much prayer and honesty, I finally realised the reason I couldn't fully quit was because I enjoyed it. I was trying to give up to honour God but couldn't in my own strength. I truly wasn't willing, despite my vain attempts, to stop. My issue wasn't with tobacco, it was with me. I realised also that I couldn't suddenly switch to being someone who hated tobacco, such a change in my deepest make-up needed to come from God. So the only answer was surrender. That's when I found victory.

Agreed. Like Ron's post, it comes down to genuine self-denial, and until that is something we are willing to embrace, sin will continue.

I think the theology is well-intended enough, and like you I thank God for any successes anyone might have through it. But it flies in the face of too much scripture to be adopted as a truly Christian teaching on how to avoid sin. It comes off as a psychological counterfeit to actual New Testament teaching.

 

[marks]

Mark, I am very grateful if this approach works for you and others like you. But I still feel duty bound to counter it by saying it most certainly doesn't work for someone with a personality like mine. When I get angry, no amount of "correct thinking" is going to keep me from venting and letting it out somehow, and it will not be pretty. This alone flies in the face of common sense, so I have no choice but to stand up and say that if it works for some, it most certainly does not work for all.

Do you know that I have some very serious corruptions of my flesh? Things that trigger fast and furious? I do! Anger and worse are my problems. I'm not saying it's easy, or doesn't require a lot of work, at least in my case. But the more I'm trained this way the more consistent I am.

The correct thinking is that there is no impediment between God and me, that I am fully and permanently reconciled to Him. Trusting in the finished work of the cross.

That my sins are once and for all forever forgiven, all of them, past present future everything forgiven, because God wants to have an intimate love relationship with me, and didn't want my sin to stand in the way. So He removed it in Christ, giving me Christ's righteousness, and now I am His son, a Father son relationship.

When I walk in His Spirit, the life of Christ is produced in my life, and I do not sin. I'm trusting in Jesus for His life lived through mine. By faith we are saved, and by that same faith we have access (perfect tense, btw) to the grace in which we stand.

So if I'm not standing, to me that mean I'm not trusting. If I'm not trusting, again, for me, that means, I've stopped. God didn't stop His side of our relationship, I did.

If I'm communing with God, I don't get that kind of angry. When I'm not in that communion, that's when I do. When I realize I'm not in that communion, while I want to get a handle on my anger, mostly what I want is to reconnect with God. And in that moment I realize I'm not paying attention to Him, we are back in communion, and that's how I really get control of my anger, or whatever it is.

I'm in fellowship with God at all times. And enjoying that fellowship with God right now, I won't be sinning right now. And even in the midst of my sins, whatever they may be, God is there with me, in communion with me, the real me, to give me the power to overcome the flesh, which has deceived me.

But beyond getting through sin, getting past sin, knowing that none of those sins, and nothing of what seems the power of the flesh have any power to prevent my communion with my Father, while that communion with my Father has power to prevent all of those sins.

For me, it's not about controlling my temper or other fleshy passions, it's more about remaining in communion with God, know that His presence in me is truly the right answer against sin.

Much love!