Yep, I see you classic John 1:1-18 scripture.....care to explain how God the Father became incarnated into a form of human being, as God the Son our Messiah at least. And in so doing explain every line of your scripture and and tie it all together with a decent paragraph summary so the casual reader can understand what you mean?
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If this was aimed at me, I like the gospel of Thomas, it's probably my favourite gospel, but I generally haven't read the gnostic texts.
I don't know how close I am to gnostic beliefs, but I don't identify with or try to adhere to gnosticism.
Mantis
Well-Known Member
Hello welcome to the forum! There is a smattering of different views on here which makes it is very fascinating. It seems there are more actual worshippers of God than on other forums. I felt welcome here so this is the forum I use.
I do not fully understand the triune nature but I do know that Jesus is a different person/personality than the Holy Spirit and the Father. I think Jesus is God the son and the pre-earth born Angel of the Lord. It seems to me that the Father has ultimate authority and power as Jesus does what the Father wants and the Holy Spirit of God is our helper. All three persons form the Godhead which is the alpha and omega.
I do not fully understand the triune nature but I do know that Jesus is a different person/personality than the Holy Spirit and the Father. I think Jesus is God the son and the pre-earth born Angel of the Lord. It seems to me that the Father has ultimate authority and power as Jesus does what the Father wants and the Holy Spirit of God is our helper. All three persons form the Godhead which is the alpha and omega.
^ I don't view Jesus as being too different from, say, Moses, but Jesus is very important when it comes to the new birth, because he was the first to be reborn and it is because of him that the possibility became so open for all, after Adam and Eve failed in their task by sinning.
The Holy Spirit transmits divinity to us. Jesus told us the message of divinity, when he came as the Messiah, the anointed one. God (Yahweh) is the ultimate power, and through the rebirth we become unified with him.
So it makes sense to focus on those 3, but they don't form a godhead because they are not equal.
Jesus is a person, although he's one of the best people ever. The Holy Spirit is greater than a person, but Yahweh is greater still.
Worship God alone! Love him with your being!
Jesus is not to be worshipped (it is idolatry) but to be learnt from and held in veneration.
Focus on the new birth! Pray to God!
The Holy Spirit transmits divinity to us. Jesus told us the message of divinity, when he came as the Messiah, the anointed one. God (Yahweh) is the ultimate power, and through the rebirth we become unified with him.
So it makes sense to focus on those 3, but they don't form a godhead because they are not equal.
Jesus is a person, although he's one of the best people ever. The Holy Spirit is greater than a person, but Yahweh is greater still.
Worship God alone! Love him with your being!
Jesus is not to be worshipped (it is idolatry) but to be learnt from and held in veneration.
Focus on the new birth! Pray to God!
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@Mayflower let me help answer you query in short. First, no, I do not identify myself as a gnostic as the earlier first century folks were called.
Although I do believe as they do, that a personal spiritual knowledge or gnosis is the foundation of truth (VIA the spirit of Christ and truth) OVER MANY orthodox teachings, traditions, and the authority of the so-called established 'churches.' Trinitarians do not believe this at all, and even those professing to know the Lord and possess his Spirit - quite odd to me.
And no, as the Gnostics believe, and true trinitarians also share and believe the same, that Christ is a divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the 'Light.'
I'm strictly a monotheist, biblical unitarian that does not fit into one denomination at all.
Bless you,
APAK
Although I do believe as they do, that a personal spiritual knowledge or gnosis is the foundation of truth (VIA the spirit of Christ and truth) OVER MANY orthodox teachings, traditions, and the authority of the so-called established 'churches.' Trinitarians do not believe this at all, and even those professing to know the Lord and possess his Spirit - quite odd to me.
And no, as the Gnostics believe, and true trinitarians also share and believe the same, that Christ is a divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the 'Light.'
I'm strictly a monotheist, biblical unitarian that does not fit into one denomination at all.
Bless you,
APAK
I agree with about 80 percent of what you wrote...that's a lot coming from me.
1st para-statement - generally yes
2nd para-statement - generally yes
3rd para-statement - neutral....a little to vague
4th para-statement - second sentence not so much
5th para-statement - yes
6th para-statement - generally yes
7th para-statement - generally yes
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@APAK is your disagreement where I say the holy spirit is greater than a person?
A person can, more or less, speak to one person at a time (of course there's also things like addressing a crowd and multitasking). The holy spirit can transmit truth to people all across earth, facilitating the rebirth process of all. [What I just said technically doesn't prove that the holy spirit is greater than Jesus, but it is a start]
And the holy spirit is not the same as Yahweh, and Yahweh is the greatest that we can ever know, so of course 'Yahweh is greater still'.
The thing about the godhead/Trinity... I think 'father, son and holy spirit' was being mentioned by true believers, maybe traced back to a disciple, but it was reinterpreted to mean that the 3 were equal, one and the same, when it wasn't meant to mean that.
A person can, more or less, speak to one person at a time (of course there's also things like addressing a crowd and multitasking). The holy spirit can transmit truth to people all across earth, facilitating the rebirth process of all. [What I just said technically doesn't prove that the holy spirit is greater than Jesus, but it is a start]
And the holy spirit is not the same as Yahweh, and Yahweh is the greatest that we can ever know, so of course 'Yahweh is greater still'.
The thing about the godhead/Trinity... I think 'father, son and holy spirit' was being mentioned by true believers, maybe traced back to a disciple, but it was reinterpreted to mean that the 3 were equal, one and the same, when it wasn't meant to mean that.
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No, the Spirit of God Almighty is the expressed power of the Father, YHWH. They are one of the same being.
The Father is the one true God/YHWH and his intrinsic logos (as used in John 1) or self-expression of purpose and raison d'etre, through his Holy Spirit to all creation that is Holy and divine (as in John 1). His Spirit is extended outwards from him in heaven and into this universe...etc..
BL: YHWH, Yahshua's Father and ours, and YHWH's Holy Spirit are one of the same for different applications or roles.
Hope it helps ..APAK
Very likely. You should read the Terms of Service. But the majority of Christians here believe that Jesus is YAHWEH (YHWH) since that is exactly what He has said. And that is exactly what the Bible teaches.
Here's the way to understand the Godhead:
GOD THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE SON (THE WORD) IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE FATHER
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)
It is noteworthy that in John 1:1 John does not say "In the beginning was the Son". Instead he says "In the beginning was the Word". After that he says "The Word was God (THEOS)". So there can be no misunderstanding.
Jesus said he was 'one with the father'. This is an expression of union, not identity.
I am also one with the father.
Much was added to the new testament. Paul didn't write about vicarious atonement.
People in that day didn't know what it meant to be unified with God. They thought Jesus was saying he was God, but he was saying that the divine state he had attained (and he was the first to attain it) could be attained by all.
I understand that my view is in the minority here.
It is ironical that your user name is "Sacred Word" since you do not even believe that the Bible (as we have it) is indeed the Word of God. Therefore I will not be wasting my time responding to your posts.
Ok yeah, I don't believe that Yahweh and the holy spirit are the same, or that it is 'his' spirit.
I think it was created by him to fulfill his purpose, so it cannot be said to be part of him any more than we can.
I don't quite know how to explain what the holy spirit is exactly. I do know that calling on the holy spirit is different to, and easier than, calling on God.
Haven't you read in John where the term Word is used?
I am referring to God's Word, which is eternal and true, and is akin to his speech, which is of a level categorically higher than ours. It is the truth which we as the divine can read and respond to.
It is not a suggestion that the bible itself is the 'sacred word'. The bible has some of the holiest material ever written, but it is also the most corrupt book on the planet. Antichrists added much to it.
You don't have to reply to me. It is your choice.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
God the Father didn't become incarnated into a form of human being, but as you have rephrased, yes, it was His only begotten Son Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. The same God that said "Let there be light," also sent us His Son to save us from our sins.
I'd prefer people rest on the Scriptures rather than my writings, so that the Word of God can find fertile ground in their hearts and produce faith for them to accept the truth of Christ's divinity and His humanity in the Godhead.
Col 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (9) For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Mat 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. (19) Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. (20) But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take unto you Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. (21) And she shall bring forth a son, and you shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (22) Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, (23) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (24) Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: (25) And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Rom 1:3-4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Enough for a sceptic to search their heart about . . .
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Well thanks SM for your reply. Yes Romans 1:3-4 as your ending is very to the point of this entire discussion....
as a rudimentary translation of it then....
......The Father's Son and our Lord and Christ was indeed created with/by Mary (seed of David) and the Father's Holy Spirit. And he was and is the Son of the Father, the only God Almighty, with power of the same Father's Spirit, the Spirit that is the Holy Spirit because this same Holy Spirit of the Father raised him from the dead..Amen
