Is Propitiation Once and For All?

[nothead]

I have a little experience in the concept made concrete earlier last century: That the Cross was Finished absolutely by Jesus and no one can take this away from the recipient of.

I disagree however that it is the done deal in our lives, since we are still human and may sin significantly again, making us once again not clean enough to covenant with. This may not be from our FREE WILL per se, but it is from the responsible end of us.

Justification therefore depends upon us finishing our end. Jesus did his part, and FINISHED it successfully. God planned for Jesus to do so, and both accomplished what they wanted to.

But we as believers are still beholden to Shema, to love God firstly with all we have. This is our end of covenant, and God will judge us for what we have done toward this attitude he required. And Jesus will convene again and mediate if HE so desires to.

Try this one on, defeating any VIP Card to Heaven OR OSAS paradigm of awry theologians.

 

[Floyd]

I have a little experience in the concept made concrete earlier last century: That the Cross was Finished absolutely by Jesus and no one can take this away from the recipient of.

I disagree however that it is the done deal in our lives, since we are still human and may sin significantly again, making us once again not clean enough to covenant with. This may not be from our FREE WILL per se, but it is from the responsible end of us.

Justification therefore depends upon us finishing our end. Jesus did his part, and FINISHED it successfully. God planned for Jesus to do so, and both accomplished what they wanted to.

But we as believers are still beholden to Shema, to love God firstly with all we have. This is our end of covenant, and God will judge us for what we have done toward this attitude he required. And Jesus will convene again and mediate if HE so desires to.

Try this one on, defeating any VIP Card to Heaven OR OSAS paradigm of awry theologians.

You are at it again no-head!
Have you lost on the Trinity; so you will have a go at the "once for all" sacrifice of our Lord?
What is wrong with your spirit, if you are a Christian, you are always attacking the Lord's Deity!
Are you and im-purity JWs ?
That would explain it!
If you are sincere; go away and prayerfully study God's message to sincere people; if you are not beware!!
These passages are conclusive;Rom.6:10; 1Peter 3:18; Heb.9:28; 7:27.
Do not attempt to apply obfuscation!

Floyd.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

Nothead,

Do you think Jesus died a literal physical death? How many times did Jesus die? How many times did He need to die? How many sins were covered when He did die?

SL

 

[nothead]

You are at it again no-head!
Have you lost on the Trinity; so you will have a go at the "once for all" sacrifice of our Lord?
What is wrong with your spirit, if you are a Christian, you are always attacking the Lord's Deity!
Are you and im-purity JWs ?
That would explain it!
If you are sincere; go away and prayerfully study God's message to sincere people; if you are not beware!!
These passages are conclusive;Rom.6:10; 1Peter 3:18; Heb.9:28; 7:27.
Do not attempt to apply obfuscation!

Floyd.

You believe in OSAS Floyd? This is consistent. You are false in more ways than one, no OSAS exists.

Nothead,

Do you think Jesus died a literal physical death? How many times did Jesus die? How many times did He need to die? How many sins were covered when He did die?

SL

He died the same death we all do. What that is I never quite got, since I never died yet. Although my heart has been broken and I've been knocked out a few times.
You know regular old notheaded events.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

You believe in OSAS Floyd? This is consistent. You are false in more ways than one, no OSAS exists.



He died the same death we all do. What that is I never quite got, since I never died yet. Although my heart has been broken and I've been knocked out a few times.
You know regular old notheaded events.

The death we all die is a physical death. Jesus did die a physical death, the same one we all die as the payment for our sin. Romans 6:23 He paid the full penalty for our sin. He died once for all. 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:12 and many others. Now what does all mean except all? All sin, all time, all people. The sin is paid for. Sin is not what sends a man into eternal separation from God our Father. What does that? Not accepting the payment that God offered through Christ. It is available to everyone...it is already paid for. Any sin you ever committed, any sin you will ever commit. Any sin anyone ever committed. Paid. Once for all. Period.

We have nothing to do with it.

SL

 

[nothead]

The death we all die is a physical death. Jesus did die a physical death, the same one we all die as the payment for our sin. Romans 6:23 He paid the full penalty for our sin. He died once for all. 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:12 and many others. Now what does all mean except all? All sin, all time, all people. The sin is paid for. Sin is not what sends a man into eternal separation from God our Father. What does that? Not accepting the payment that God offered through Christ. It is available to everyone...it is already paid for. Any sin you ever committed, any sin you will ever commit. Any sin anyone ever committed. Paid. Once for all. Period.

We have nothing to do with it.

SL

Not an uncommon theology, but false. Accepting Jesus in faith is to be made clean enough to COVENANT to God who is not Jesus. The man Jesus is the opposite man from Adam who sent us into tailspin...

...now the Propitiation of the Cross is the cleanliness to begin Covenant the New Covenant of Jesus, to God.

So then the FREE GIFT is not the whole keeboodle, rather the entry into Covenant. Big diff. New concept for your Old Pattern of False Theology.

Consider sir these parables, proving nothead correct in his own Theological Paradigm:

[SIZE=.75em]44 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[SIZE=.75em]45 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[SIZE=.75em]46 [/SIZE]Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Matthew 13

So then sir, this is the reality of our walk in Christ. We received the FREE entry into Covenant, knowing from CORRECT theology this Covenant is gonna cost us our whole life and everything we have worked for.

Odd, that our walk ain't no longer a walk in the park is it? Big diff. One theology has you sitting on your little pedestal looking all pretty and such and the other has you running Paul's race with all of your might.

Guess which one is true?

 

[shturt678]

Not an uncommon theology, but false. Accepting Jesus in faith is to be made clean enough to COVENANT to God who is not Jesus. The man Jesus is the opposite man from Adam who sent us into tailspin...

...now the Propitiation of the Cross is the cleanliness to begin Covenant the New Covenant of Jesus, to God.

So then the FREE GIFT is not the whole keeboodle, rather the entry into Covenant. Big diff. New concept for your Old Pattern of False Theology.

Consider sir these parables, proving nothead correct in his own Theological Paradigm:

[SIZE=.75em]44 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[SIZE=.75em]45 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[SIZE=.75em]46 [/SIZE]Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Matthew 13

So then sir, this is the reality of our walk in Christ. We received the FREE entry into Covenant, knowing from CORRECT theology this Covenant is gonna cost us our whole life and everything we have worked for.

Odd, that our walk ain't no longer a walk in the park is it? Big diff. One theology has you sitting on your little pedestal looking all pretty and such and the other has you running Paul's race with all of your might.

Guess which one is true?

Thank you for caring again!

I was hoping you would have raised the bar a little more, ie, Matt.13:44, reveals how the Kingdom of God is acquired, ie, the points of the parable: "treasure," "hidden," "finding," "securing ownership" (you got this part).

At our paygrades we want to get the whole thing, correct?

Old Jackster

 

[nothead]

Thank you for caring again!

I was hoping you would have raised the bar a little more, ie, Matt.13:44, reveals how the Kingdom of God is acquired, ie, the points of the parable: "treasure," "hidden," "finding," "securing ownership" (you got this part).

At our paygrades we want to get the whole thing, correct?

Old Jackster

I smell the effluvium of a man who don't think he has to AQUIRE nothing, since it was AQUIRED for him...this negates any covenant at all.

It is also unfortunately the Theology of the Lukewarm, made famous by Baptists especially along the Baptist Belt where Baptists like to glom together...

Sitten pretty, all smelling good and bouffant hair and golden cuff links, a smile that behooves the God that hath blessed them...

Any small child who loves his dad is gonna try to please him, but no YOU and YOURN think God just loves you for what you are, even the children of the Exodus too who were given the impossible command to love God with all.

He DOES love you for what you are, else He wouldn't covenant with you sir...Covenant of the New Testament now requires Faith with Action. For many hath said, faith with NO ACTION is dead.

You sir, are justified BY FAITH, but this FAITH has a YONTOO to be obedient to the present Holy Spirit as it MOVES YOU. Baptists ain't normally Spirit-filled so then maybe they have an excuse of sorts...

....but pentecostals do not. FAITH is our justification, and it is ready to jump and LEAP in the here and now, sir.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

Not an uncommon theology, but false. Accepting Jesus in faith is to be made clean enough to COVENANT to God who is not Jesus. The man Jesus is the opposite man from Adam who sent us into tailspin...

...now the Propitiation of the Cross is the cleanliness to begin Covenant the New Covenant of Jesus, to God.

So then the FREE GIFT is not the whole keeboodle, rather the entry into Covenant. Big diff. New concept for your Old Pattern of False Theology.

Consider sir these parables, proving nothead correct in his own Theological Paradigm:

[SIZE=.75em]44 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[SIZE=.75em]45 [/SIZE]Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[SIZE=.75em]46 [/SIZE]Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Matthew 13

So then sir, this is the reality of our walk in Christ. We received the FREE entry into Covenant, knowing from CORRECT theology this Covenant is gonna cost us our whole life and everything we have worked for.

Odd, that our walk ain't no longer a walk in the park is it? Big diff. One theology has you sitting on your little pedestal looking all pretty and such and the other has you running Paul's race with all of your might.

Guess which one is true?

Wow. You do like to take big leaps. Who in the world said that we didn't run the race and just because Christ's sacrifice was once for all we "sit on a pedestal"? Of course we "run the race". I thought this understood. I am sorry I take the simplicity of the statements in the bible to mean exactly what they say. Please explain in more detail what all means if it does not mean all or means something more than all. This will be the sticking point if you want to change my mind.

SL

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I smell the effluvium of a man who don't think he has to AQUIRE nothing, since it was AQUIRED for him...this negates any covenant at all.

It is also unfortunately the Theology of the Lukewarm, made famous by Baptists especially along the Baptist Belt where Baptists like to glom together...

Sitten pretty, all smelling good and bouffant hair and golden cuff links, a smile that behooves the God that hath blessed them...

Any small child who loves his dad is gonna try to please him, but no YOU and YOURN think God just loves you for what you are, even the children of the Exodus too who were given the impossible command to love God with all.

He DOES love you for what you are, else He wouldn't covenant with you sir...Covenant of the New Testament now requires Faith with Action. For many hath said, faith with NO ACTION is dead.

You sir, are justified BY FAITH, but this FAITH has a YONTOO to be obedient to the present Holy Spirit as it MOVES YOU. Baptists ain't normally Spirit-filled so then maybe they have an excuse of sorts...

....but pentecostals do not. FAITH is our justification, and it is ready to jump and LEAP in the here and now, sir.

You're not alone in feeling this way. If anything can be gleaned from the "Narrow Gate" teaching by Jesus, it's that salvation doesn't just fall into our laps, we need to strive for it, or as St. Paul put it, run the race as if to win the prize! I think the common mistake is a misinterpretation of grace. I love the teaching of the Unprofitable Servant by Jesus because it reveals our relationship to grace, that we do what is our duty to do, but in the end we're unprofitable servants. So even though we are to strive to attain heaven, we get there by grace, not by our efforts.

This separation of what Christ has done to win eternal life for all who believe in him and our obligatory response, doing our part, seems lost on many Christians who think good works are an affront to the cross. I don't see an easy chair in Biblical salvation, I see Christians actively going to the ends of the earth and suffering hardship, persecution, and even death. Nowhere do I detect an attitude that our first generation Christian thought of salvation as fire insurance. As St. James put it, works cannot be separated from faith, for faith without works is dead. And if not to be misunderstood, St.James annunciated that a man is saved by works and NOT faith alone.

Keep up the good fight. It seems you're being harried here, but truth isn't a matter of popular consensus.

 

[nothead]

Wow. You do like to take big leaps. Who in the world said that we didn't run the race and just because Christ's sacrifice was once for all we "sit on a pedestal"? Of course we "run the race". I thought this understood. I am sorry I take the simplicity of the statements in the bible to mean exactly what they say. Please explain in more detail what all means if it does not mean all or means something more than all. This will be the sticking point if you want to change my mind.

SL

Big leaps little leaps. It is said white men can't jump, but we leap when God calls, to the maximum extent of our leapedness, as it were...trying to be politically correct that is.

That is to fulfill Shema that is, as it were.

IF Christ's finished work IS all there is finished and done, then there AIN'T no reason to jump at all when God calls. No one does this out of the sanctity of their bleeding hearts, not on their own.

Flesh can have a will but there is no way by itself. Lesson number 581, Shema Theology.

Big leaps little leaps. It is said white men can't jump, but we leap when God calls, to the maximum extent of our leapedness, as it were...trying to be politically correct that is.

That is to fulfill Shema that is, as it were.

IF Christ's finished work IS all there is finished and done, then there AIN'T no reason to jump at all when God calls. No one does this out of the sanctity of their bleeding hearts, not on their own.

Flesh can have a will but there is no way by itself. Lesson number 581, Shema Theology.

You're not alone in feeling this way. If anything can be gleaned from the "Narrow Gate" teaching by Jesus, it's that salvation doesn't just fall into our laps, we need to strive for it, or as St. Paul put it, run the race as if to win the prize! I think the common mistake is a misinterpretation of grace. I love the teaching of the Unprofitable Servant by Jesus because it reveals our relationship to grace, that we do what is our duty to do, but in the end we're unprofitable servants. So even though we are to strive to attain heaven, we get there by grace, not by our efforts.

This separation of what Christ has done to win eternal life for all who believe in him and our obligatory response, doing our part, seems lost on many Christians who think good works are an affront to the cross. I don't see an easy chair in Biblical salvation, I see Christians actively going to the ends of the earth and suffering hardship, persecution, and even death. Nowhere do I detect an attitude that our first generation Christian thought of salvation as fire insurance. As St. James put it, works cannot be separated from faith, for faith without works is dead. And if not to be misunderstood, St.James annunciated that a man is saved by works and NOT faith alone.

Keep up the good fight. It seems you're being harried here, but truth isn't a matter of popular consensus.

Works can't do it since we don't know the dividing line. X number of works at Y effort, what it takes. FAITH now is the constant, and this increases by necessity as we live. From faith to faith the more given the more required. If we are ready when the opportunities come, then FRUIT will take care of itself in works, amen and God Bless.

 

[shturt678]

I smell the effluvium of a man who don't think he has to AQUIRE nothing, since it was AQUIRED for him...this negates any covenant at all.

It is also unfortunately the Theology of the Lukewarm, made famous by Baptists especially along the Baptist Belt where Baptists like to glom together...

Sitten pretty, all smelling good and bouffant hair and golden cuff links, a smile that behooves the God that hath blessed them...

Any small child who loves his dad is gonna try to please him, but no YOU and YOURN think God just loves you for what you are, even the children of the Exodus too who were given the impossible command to love God with all.

He DOES love you for what you are, else He wouldn't covenant with you sir...Covenant of the New Testament now requires Faith with Action. For many hath said, faith with NO ACTION is dead.

You sir, are justified BY FAITH, but this FAITH has a YONTOO to be obedient to the present Holy Spirit as it MOVES YOU. Baptists ain't normally Spirit-filled so then maybe they have an excuse of sorts...

....but pentecostals do not. FAITH is our justification, and it is ready to jump and LEAP in the here and now, sir.

Thank you for your response again and caring!

I thought you were a little more down to my speed, ie, lower paygrade, however will bridge the gap the best I can. Matt.13:44, "Like is the Kingdom of the heavens to a treasure having been hidden in a field..." btw "faith" effected through "repentance," ie, not "action."

So you were not aware that the Kingdom of God is a "treasure" of all treasures? God's treasure, hidden, indeed, is to be found by us (Matt.11:25; Col.4:3, 4; Lk.19:42); No sarcasm as assumed you knew the "Scriptures" is undoubtedly "the field" (Jn.5:39). How does it feel to work as a team?

So you don't believe "the field" needs to be bought, ie, "acquiring the treasure kind of thing"? You just have to have a little faith with some works not in need of being "born again"? I don't think so? I think one needs to be "born again" to enter the Kingdom of God being an important part of one's instant of faith, correct?

Will let the rest of the Parable go for now as don't want you to 'thrown in the towel' too early.

Old Jack

btw God placed the 'treasure,' led man to it (Jn.6:44, 65). I think you're getting the jist of it.

Big leaps little leaps. It is said white men can't jump, but we leap when God calls, to the maximum extent of our leapedness, as it were...trying to be politically correct that is.

That is to fulfill Shema that is, as it were.

IF Christ's finished work IS all there is finished and done, then there AIN'T no reason to jump at all when God calls. No one does this out of the sanctity of their bleeding hearts, not on their own.

Flesh can have a will but there is no way by itself. Lesson number 581, Shema Theology.




Works can't do it since we don't know the dividing line. X number of works at Y effort, what it takes. FAITH now is the constant, and this increases by necessity as we live. From faith to faith the more given the more required. If we are ready when the opportunities come, then FRUIT will take care of itself in works, amen and God Bless.

Thank you for caring again!

What ever happened to "repentance," eg, Mk.1:15b & Matt.3:2?

btw remember one's "faith" may be "lost' even after undergoing a valid "born again" experience.

Old, but now I'm 'found,' Jack

 

[nothead]

Thank you for your response again and caring!

I thought you were a little more down to my speed, ie, lower paygrade, however will bridge the gap the best I can. Matt.13:44, "Like is the Kingdom of the heavens to a treasure having been hidden in a field..." btw "faith" effected through "repentance," ie, not "action."

So you were not aware that the Kingdom of God is a "treasure" of all treasures? God's treasure, hidden, indeed, is to be found by us (Matt.11:25; Col.4:3, 4; Lk.19:42); No sarcasm as assumed you knew the "Scriptures" is undoubtedly "the field" (Jn.5:39). How does it feel to work as a team?

The field is not the treasure, what is in the field is the kingdom of God. But so far okay....

So you don't believe "the field" needs to be bought, ie, "acquiring the treasure kind of thing"? You just have to have a little faith with some works not in need of being "born again"? I don't think so? I think one needs to be "born again" to enter the Kingdom of God being an important part of one's instant of faith, correct?

To be "born again" was to Nicodemus the requisite for eternal life, but this is not an absolute condition of now you got 'er made in the shade, cool guy. All spirit-filled believers can still backslide like in my view Ananias and Saphirra. It was exactly BECAUSE they blasphemed the Holy Spirit that they keeled over dead. If they were not "reborn" or "baptized in Spirit," this same Spirit would not have convicted them in extremis.




Will let the rest of the Parable go for now as don't want you to 'thrown in the towel' too early.

Old Jack

btw God placed the 'treasure,' led man to it (Jn.6:44, 65). I think you're getting the jist of it.

Thank you for caring again!

What ever happened to "repentance," eg, Mk.1:15b & Matt.3:2?

btw remember one's "faith" may be "lost' even after undergoing a valid "born again" experience.

Old, but now I'm 'found,' Jack

Okay, we are on track together, here at least. Repentance quite nicely dovetails in as a man dies to self and lives to Jesus...by the same Holy Spirit sent by God in his name. NEITHER Jesus or the Holy Spirit equal partners of YHWH Elohim the One True God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

 

[shturt678]

The field is not the treasure, what is in the field is the kingdom of God. But so far okay....





To be "born again" was to Nicodemus the requisite for eternal life, but this is not an absolute condition of now you got 'er made in the shade, cool guy. All spirit-filled believers can still backslide like in my view Ananias and Saphirra. It was exactly BECAUSE they blasphemed the Holy Spirit that they keeled over dead. If they were not "reborn" or "baptized in Spirit," this same Spirit would not have convicted them in extremis.




Will let the rest of the Parable go for now as don't want you to 'thrown in the towel' too early.

Old Jack



Okay, we are on track together, here at least. Repentance quite nicely dovetails in as a man dies to self and lives to Jesus...by the same Holy Spirit sent by God in his name. NEITHER Jesus or the Holy Spirit equal partners of YHWH Elohim the One True God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

Thank you for your response again!

The reason I made an issue of this is I've really noticed especially in the past three decades or so, most just turn to the "faith," and not turn in a heartful realized "repentance" to the "faith." I won't even bring up the lack of a 'fear' of God today (Rom.3:18) in/out of the Churches.

First and foremost only as our Lord Christ Jesus being Godman could His "atonement" and the reckoning were and are valid for the universe of men, wasn't God then the "Propitiation" null and void, eg, Jesus, the Son of God bore our sin and its curse in his human nature, this nature was supported by his divine nature (Matt.27:46).

Old Jack talking out loud again.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

Big leaps little leaps. It is said white men can't jump, but we leap when God calls, to the maximum extent of our leapedness, as it were...trying to be politically correct that is.

That is to fulfill Shema that is, as it were.

IF Christ's finished work IS all there is finished and done, then there AIN'T no reason to jump at all when God calls. No one does this out of the sanctity of their bleeding hearts, not on their own.

Right, no one does it on their own. Are you forgetting that Christ dwells in a person after they come? Christ then does it through me as a natural result of Him dwelling in me. Yes Christ's work was finished and done....that is the point...He then dwells in me and does the good work through me that I would not do on my own from my natural man.

SL

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Right, no one does it on their own. Are you forgetting that Christ dwells in a person after they come? Christ then does it through me as a natural result of Him dwelling in me. Yes Christ's work was finished and done....that is the point...He then dwells in me and does the good work through me that I would not do on my own from my natural man.

SL

This is where we keep talking past each other. Nobody is saying that we do it alone. Those who take the stance that works are a necessary ingredient to faith and to final salvation aren't making the argument that anyone makes it to heaven by their own merits. There's a span between doing what is our duty to do (Lk 17:7-10) and ultimate salvation is infinite; Jesus is the bridge that crosses that great divide. It's one of the biggest strawman arguments in Christian debate, this "you can't work your way to heaven" sermon. Who is actually saying that? The lesson of the Unprofitable Servant is that we have our end to hold up and our lives must bear fruit. But even doing so, in the end, we're saved by grace.

 

[Floyd]

The death we all die is a physical death. Jesus did die a physical death, the same one we all die as the payment for our sin. Romans 6:23 He paid the full penalty for our sin. He died once for all. 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 6:10, Hebrews 10:12 and many others. Now what does all mean except all? All sin, all time, all people. The sin is paid for. Sin is not what sends a man into eternal separation from God our Father. What does that? Not accepting the payment that God offered through Christ. It is available to everyone...it is already paid for. Any sin you ever committed, any sin you will ever commit. Any sin anyone ever committed. Paid. Once for all. Period.

We have nothing to do with it.

SL

Well summarised SL!
Floyd.

 

[shturt678]

Thank you folks for caring!

For example, however in parabolic language (Lk.6:47-49), there are warnings regarding one's resultant salavation,eg, in light of each is given a lot (Eph.1:11) and not doing that 'lot'.

We must not take works of faith, waaay beyond the whole hour on Sunday (use to be a whole 1.5 hours), to lightly, ie, a 24/7 sort of thing.

Old Jack's two-bits

 

[nothead]

Right, no one does it on their own. Are you forgetting that Christ dwells in a person after they come? Christ then does it through me as a natural result of Him dwelling in me. Yes Christ's work was finished and done....that is the point...He then dwells in me and does the good work through me that I would not do on my own from my natural man.

SL

Well, then I agree that the spirit of the Living God is what finishes our YONTOO to do Shema.

But you forgot the heart and soul and strength is too required. Even our flesh, as much as we can muster. Sounds complicated but it ain't. Vince Lombardi said 110%. Now, THAT'S a little complicated...

So then we try like the dickens and the Holy Spirit has to finish it. In real life. BOTH required and BOTH ideally manifested.

Thank you folks for caring!

For example, however in parabolic language (Lk.6:47-49), there are warnings regarding one's resultant salavation,eg, in light of each is given a lot (Eph.1:11) and not doing that 'lot'.

[SIZE=.75em]47 [/SIZE]Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
[SIZE=.75em]48 [/SIZE]He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SIZE=.75em]49 [/SIZE]But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

[SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Sir Jacque, how does Sovereign will dovetail into your will to do Shema? Shema requires ALL of you, and this without restraint. Seems to me any consideration of GOD'S WILL in endgame modality only inhibits this great effort and determination God requires of thee.

The Grace to do Jesus' YOKE is the Grace in the here and now of the Holy Spirit indwelling. THIS is what gives you the "EASY" of his YOKE.

The rest in the midst of a storm. The way in the midst of seeing no way atall. The love where no love can normally be. The hard sayings of Jesus actually manifest among believers. The agape love which Ole Jack keeps talking about.

So then Shema is still more doable than for OT believers en whole. But then again, it is still awesomely UNDOABLE in extremis for most. It is though never changed or dropped by God as requirement.

We must not take works of faith, waaay beyond the whole hour on Sunday (use to be a whole 1.5 hours), to lightly, ie, a 24/7 sort of thing.

Old Jack's two-bits

Now Jack you showing you true colors. What kind of WORK OF FAITH is sitting still on Sunday? Did you sing well, my dear?

Did you "amen" in congregation? Shout a "halluluyah" once or twice? What kind of WORKS OF FAITH you sprechen of, brother?

You will see nothead's REFORMATION goes all the way. All the way in fact to what GOD REQUIRES of you.

 

[justaname]

Propitiation is once for all as scripture proclaims. You will know a tree by the fruit it bears. A bad tree will not produce good fruit, and a good tree will not produce bad fruit. By this they will know the disciples of God, by their love for one another. Love is the binding factor that unites us.

Shema is the appropriate and given response from all those who are saved. This is why those who are saved are saved from an eternal perspective. It is never an on again off again relationship with God. Perseverance of the saints is not a doctrine that is irrespective of faith as some believe.

Jesus is the vine, all branches that do not bear fruit are broken off and burned. Those that do bear fruit are pruned to bear even more fruit. In such we must remember the parable of the soils...only the good soil is the one we would call "saved."

Shalom