Is The Rapture A Literal Event?

[amadeus]

Unless we interpret Scriptures in their proper context, we will simply go round and round in confusion. The apostles (firstly) and then the Church, were meant to remain on this earth UNTIL THE RAPTURE. Until the fulness of the Gentiles had come into the Church. Therefore we are still here.

But there is a time limit as well as a numerical limit on the Church, and once that is complete, the Church will be taken out of this earth, just as Enoch was translated at the right time.

Do those verse (quoted above) have any bearing on the Rapture?None whatsoever. Why don't you go to John 14:1-3 and see the meaning of the Rapture in that passage?

And does not each one of the verses written in the scriptures have some connection to every other one? If they do not, shouldn't they?

"For the body is not one member, but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:14-18

Thank you for referring me to the following verses:

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." John 14:1-3

They are food for thought indeed, but I don't see the traditional rapture idea so clearly in them!
Perhaps you would instruct in your understanding of it?

I do see the bodies of individuals coming together as the Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head where there had been only a head of flesh. He is preparing the place for each of us as parts of His Body so that we shall all be "fitly joined together".

 

[marks]

For those who do, I wanted to create a thread to ask for proofs that the rapture of the church is not a literal event.

So, um, I don't fit here, since I believe that we will be plucked out of this world, at a time of God's choosing, along with those who have died before us, to be removed prior to the saving of Israel.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

Perhaps you would instruct in your understanding of it?

Before we go into that passage (words said BEFORE the crucifixion) we need to ask ourselves two questions: (1) what is the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture and (2) why is it a distinct event as opposed to the Second Coming of Christ.

PURPOSE?
The completion of our redemption and perfection in Christ (see 1 John 3:1-3 and Romans 8:29,30)

WHY BEFORE THE SECOND COMING?
Because all the saints must gather for the Marriage of the Lamb (see Rev 19)

JOHN 14 -- A DIVINE PROMISE

NO CONNECTION TO ANY TRIBULATION PERIOD
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

THE FATHER'S HOUSE IS IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW JERUSALEM
2 In my Father's house are many mansions:...

DIVINE ASSURANCE FROM JESUS WHO IS GOD
...if it were not so, I would have told you...

CHRIST IS PRESENTLY IN HEAVEN PREPARING FOR HIS SAINTS
...I go to prepare a place for you....

CHRIST IS GUARANTEED TO COME AGAIN FOR HIS SAINTS
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,...

AND PERSONALLY RECEIVE THEM AT THE RAPTURE
...and receive you unto myself;.. (see 1 Thessalonians 4)

THE ETERNAL HOME OF THE SAINTS IS IN HEAVEN WITH CHRIST
...that where I am, there ye may be also.

JESUS SAID THAT HE WOULD RETURN TO THE FATHER
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So, um, I don't fit here....

Much love!

Intruder Alert!!!

Shame on you, Marks, for barging in on this tread then. Thou hast "crept in unawares" : )

 

[marks]

Intruder Alert!!!

Shame on you, Marks, for barging in on this tread then. Thou hast "crept in unawares" : )

 

[Hidden In Him]

"A contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise" (Psalm 51:17)

 

[marks]

I do see the bodies of individuals coming together as the Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head where there had been only a head of flesh. He is preparing the place for each of us as parts of His Body so that we shall all be "fitly joined together"

Hi amadeus, If I might jump in here . . .

Let's say, hypothetically, that Jesus wanted to tell the disciples that He was going way, was going to prepare a place for them, and then was going to come and get them, so they could be with Him.

How would Jesus say that, would you say?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

Unless we interpret Scriptures in their proper context, we will simply go round and round in confusion. The apostles (firstly) and then the Church, were meant to remain on this earth UNTIL THE RAPTURE. Until the fulness of the Gentiles had come into the Church. Therefore we are still here.

But there is a time limit as well as a numerical limit on the Church, and once that is complete, the Church will be taken out of this earth, just as Enoch was translated at the right time.

Do those verse (quoted above) have any bearing on the Rapture?None whatsoever. Why don't you go to John 14:1-3 and see the meaning of the Rapture in that passage?

For those who do believe in a literal snatching up of bodies into the air.
I know 'you' use Enoch as a type, but where else in the 'bible patterns' would you find this illustration ?

I find this zapping up of bodies from all walks of life, planes, trains and automobiles something like sci fi it do not se it patterned anywhere.

He don't really see where Enoch was zapped into heaven...it just says "he was not, because he lord took him. "

He also took Moses, and buried him where they couldn't find him. It is only a guess that Enoch was zapped...Maybe he also was not, because the Lord buried him. I believe the rapture idea hangs on a thread...

 

[Hidden In Him]

For those who do believe in a literal snatching up of bodies into the air.
I know 'you' use Enoch as a type, but where else in the 'bible patterns' would you find this illustration ?

I find this zapping up of bodies from all walks of life, planes, trains and automobiles something like sci fi it do not se it patterned anywhere.

He don't really see where Enoch was zapped into heaven...it just says "he was not, because he lord took him. "

He also took Moses, and buried him where they couldn't find him. It is only a guess that Enoch was zapped...Maybe he also was not, because the Lord buried him. I believe the rapture idea hangs on a thread...

I'm not even sure I'd wanna be "zapped" by the Lord.

The connotations are disturbing. Brings to mind images of a massive bug zapper:

 

[Hidden In Him]

Fast Food Lol GIF by Justin Gammon - Find & Share on GIPHY

 

[Helen]

The Lord has His heavenly army , and He has been grooming and maturing on earth His spiritual army , given us His Glorious Church His armour, as one awesome army.....and it rose on it's feet a mighty army... and then one day...Oh zap...the earthy part of His glorious army is suddenly whisked away ..why-therefore was it an army?

I have often been accused of giving false hope re the love and grace of God..BUT...

Me thinks the rapture thing is "a trumpet which gives an uncertain sound.."
..talk of false hope...not a call to prepare, but a call to 'not worry because they will be zapped out of harms way'...
Last time I looked , these physical bodies weren't worth saving...it is the spiritual man God is interested in, ...not saving someone old skin and bones...

run rabbit, run rabbit, run run run...

 

[amadeus]

I am glad you went to this trouble. To be honest I don't think you will change my mind or heart in this, but people who are interested should be aware of the basis of such beliefs. Thank you.

Before we go into that passage (words said BEFORE the crucifixion) we need to ask ourselves two questions: (1) what is the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture and (2) why is it a distinct event as opposed to the Second Coming of Christ.

PURPOSE?
The completion of our redemption and perfection in Christ (see 1 John 3:1-3 and Romans 8:29,30)

And why cannot any such necessary completion be done during the time allotted by God to each of us? Those verses don't say anything to me about needing a post carnal life adjustment. Consider this one:

"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." I John 3:3

Looks like we need to do it ourself. This is why we have been given the tools of the written Bible and the Holy Spirit, isn't it? I would think we have up until the dirt is thrown onto our faces. After that it is finished for us, one way or the other.

WHY BEFORE THE SECOND COMING?
Because all the saints must gather for the Marriage of the Lamb (see Rev 19)

JOHN 14 -- A DIVINE PROMISE

But has Jesus not already come back to you and me? For us was that not his 2nd coming? Was his prayer for naught?

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:23

If Jesus is not in us already, why isn't he?

NO CONNECTION TO ANY TRIBULATION PERIOD

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

THE FATHER'S HOUSE IS IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW JERUSALEM
2 In my Father's house are many mansions:...

And heaven is where if not here in our heart and in Him. Did not Jesus pray to this end? [see John 17:23 above]

DIVINE ASSURANCE FROM JESUS WHO IS GOD

...if it were not so, I would have told you...

CHRIST IS PRESENTLY IN HEAVEN PREPARING FOR HIS SAINTS
...I go to prepare a place for you....

And the preparation is underway, or should be, within you and within me!
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

CHRIST IS GUARANTEED TO COME AGAIN FOR HIS SAINTS
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again,...

Yes He knocks on the door to our heart so He can come in to direct our pathways and prepare an abode for Himself within us. Then if we are allowing it He will be with us always.

AND PERSONALLY RECEIVE THEM AT THE RAPTURE
...and receive you unto myself;.. (see 1 Thessalonians 4)

THE ETERNAL HOME OF THE SAINTS IS IN HEAVEN WITH CHRIST
...that where I am, there ye may be also.

Even so and where is He? Is He not in us? If not, why not? Were His prayers in vain or have we not allowed the Holy Spirit to work within us preparing a place for Him? Not after a while or in some hereafter, but NOW.

JESUS SAID THAT HE WOULD RETURN TO THE FATHER
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Give God the glory!

All these words and verses you have written might be meaningful to someone who is already convinced you are correct, but standing alone they do NOT establish any such thing for me. But I don't really need that they be established in me as truth, do I? Do I need to do more than believe the following verse and act upon it?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Lord has His heavenly army , and He has been grooming and maturing on earth His spiritual army , given us His Glorious Church His armour, as one awesome army.....and it rose on it's feet a mighty army... and then one day...Oh zap...the earthy part of His glorious army is suddenly whisked away ..why-fore was it an army?

I have often been accused of giving false hope re the love and grace of God..BUT...

Me thinks the rapture thing is "a trumpet which gives an uncertain sound.."

run rabbit, run rabbit, run run run...

A Ha Ha!!! Best funny I've heard in awhile.

I think by "why-fore," you may have meant "where-fore" LoL. I would answer you seriously, but the post is too funny, LoL.

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus, If I might jump in here . . .

Let's say, hypothetically, that Jesus wanted to tell the disciples that He was going way, was going to prepare a place for them, and then was going to come and get them, so they could be with Him.

How would Jesus say that, would you say?

Much love!

Why would we need to put hypothetical words into His mouth? Is He not already speaking to us now? Are we not His sheep? If He is leading us and showing us the Way, what would be the purpose of such hypotheticals? Jesus did go away. He went to his death on the cross, but after the Holy Ghost was poured out on Pentecost as per Acts 2 was He not immediately coming to those who opened their hearts to Him so that he could build a place to rest his head? Has He not already come to work to build an abode within us?

From that day of Pentecost did this verse still apply?

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

Now, Jesus may rest upon us as the Head of the Body of Christ. Are we prepared for Him to do just that? If no, why not?

 

[Helen]

A Ha Ha!!! Best funny I've heard in awhile.

I think by "why-fore," you may have meant "where-fore" LoL. I would answer you seriously, but the post is too funny, LoL.

Perfect illustration...
And thanks for the spell check catch...

 

[Hidden In Him]

Perfect illustration...
And thanks for the spell check catch...

Sounds like Shakespeare. "Wherefore art thou, Whyfore."

 

[marks]

Why would we need to put hypothetical words into His mouth? Is He not already speaking to us now?

The point is, my friend, it's Not Hypothetical, it's actually what He said. That He was going away to prepare a place for us, and He went away, to do just that.

But I perceive that we, you and I, have much different approaches to how we read and understand the Bible, and I do not think we will reach much agreement in many things.

Much love!

 

[marks]

"And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." I John 3:3

Is it the hope that purifies us? I have this hope in me, so I purify myself, an outworking of having this hope.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

The point is, my friend, it's Not Hypothetical, it's actually what He said. That He was going away to prepare a place for us, and He went away, to do just that.

But I perceive that we, you and I, have much different approaches to how we read and understand the Bible, and I do not think we will reach much agreement in many things.

Much love!

Agreed!

And if the whole of the Bible is the flesh of Jesus written as an uninterpreted parable, I would want to be very certain what the interpretation of the Holy Spirit was before declaring it as absolute truth. Jesus is the Truth, but he is Alive. The Bible is a dead carcass needing to be consumed and then quickened in a person by the Holy Spirit in that person. This is where the conflicts and differences occur. This is where the multitude of denominations is formed based on the same Bible words. God makes no mistakes but men mix the things of God with their own things and we see the result.

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Is it the hope that purifies us? I have this hope in me, so I purify myself, an outworking of having this hope.

Much love!

If the Hope is Jesus then, yes, but I also believe that the 'old man' is alive in most believers and this is the cause of the disagreements. To actually never again quench the Holy Spirit of God will solve a person's problems in how he serves God but alone no man can do that. For even that he must ask God for help. Not many are really willing to do that... especially if it would require them to go to the lowest room without retain one single pet doctrine...