Is The Rapture A Literal Event?

[Hidden In Him]

The Lord has His heavenly army , and He has been grooming and maturing on earth His spiritual army , given us His Glorious Church His armour, as one awesome army.....and it rose on it's feet a mighty army... and then one day...Oh zap...the earthy part of His glorious army is suddenly whisked away ..why-therefore was it an army?

I have often been accused of giving false hope re the love and grace of God..BUT...

Me thinks the rapture thing is "a trumpet which gives an uncertain sound.."
..talk of false hope...not a call to prepare, but a call to 'not worry because they will be zapped out of harms way'...
Last time I looked , these physical bodies weren't worth saving...it is the spiritual man God is interested in, ...not saving someone old skin and bones...

run rabbit, run rabbit, run run run...

And now for a serious answer. This argument is something you might direct to Pre-Tribulationists, though many don't deny that the church will nevertheless suffer persecution before the rapture takes place. But I'm Post-Trip/Pre-Wrath, which means I hold that we will go through the Tribulation period (all seven years of it) before the rapture takes place and the Wrath of God begins upon the wicked.

So no running rabbits for me. Not afraid of one either, LoL.

 

[marks]

the whole of the Bible is the flesh of Jesus written as an uninterpreted parable

Who then is the abiter of opinions when two have two different interpretations? To where do we go so we can know? If not to the Word of God itself, a carcass? I can't imagine saying that word in reference to the Bible. We are different, you and I.

But it has to be the Bible to settle disagreement, and if that is to be, it is by what it directly says, in the normal way language is. Otherwise we remain with each having their own interpretation. And I believe the Bible is God's message to man, intended to communicate and not to confuse His Own children.

Much love!

 

[marks]

but I also believe that the 'old man' is alive in most believers

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That old man is dead. We are to reckon it dead. The old man is dead, and we're to accept and believe that fact. In this is our freedom.

Hey, I just realized what thread I'm on . . . I hear it's heavily policed . . . don't wan't to get caught @Hidden In Him over and out . . .

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That old man is dead. We are to reckon it dead. The old man is dead, and we're to accept and believe that fact. In this is our freedom.

Hey, I just realized what thread I'm on . . . I hear it's heavily policed . . . don't wan't to get caught @Hidden In Him over and out . . .

Much love!

Miraculously, the citizens are behaving themselves responsibly... Must be the Holy Ghost or something.

Knowing this bunch, it's probably the something.

 

[marks]

Miraculously, the citizens are behaving themselves responsibly... Must be the Holy Ghost or something.

Knowing this bunch, it's probably the something.

Isn't there a smilely like :holdingheadinhandsshakingitandcrying: ?

 

[Philip James]

But it has to be the Bible to settle disagreement, and if that is to be, it is by what it directly says, in the normal way language is.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

I believe!
Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Isn't there a smilely like :holdingheadinhandsshakingitandcrying: ?

No. But there's always images. Send me something like this. I'll appreciate it : )

 

[amadeus]

Who then is the abiter of opinions when two have two different interpretations? To where do we go so we can know?

Go to the 'lowest room' with not a single doctrine or favored belief in your hand...

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11

Sitting at the lowest room, the Master, Jesus, will bid that you go up higher. Many things will remain the same as they were before, but if a change is needed at that moment, you will also be advised, will you not. Everyone is above you except the Master. He is the Master of knowledge and will through the Holy Spirit lead you a change if one is needed.

The guy opposed to you will have to make his own trip to the lowest room.

If not to the Word of God itself, a carcass? I can't imagine saying that word in reference to the Bible. We are different, you and I.

But it has to be the Bible to settle disagreement, and if that is to be, it is by what it directly says, in the normal way language is. Otherwise we remain with each having their own interpretation. And I believe the Bible is God's message to man, intended to communicate and not to confuse His Own children.

The Bible already is available and has been for centuries. In spite of that there is a multitude of denominations based on the same scriptures because of men's varying interpretations. You cannot speak for everyone else. You can only speak for yourself. You cannot compel another man to follow you. You can check yourself with God.

Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is indeed his body, but it is a dead body like Jesus on the cross after he said, It is finished, and before he resurrected from the dead. In the case of the Bible, if we never quench the Spirit it will be quickened within us for use as directed by God.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" Jerem 10:23

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

 

[amadeus]

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

That old man is dead. We are to reckon it dead. The old man is dead, and we're to accept and believe that fact. In this is our freedom.

Hey, I just realized what thread I'm on . . . I hear it's heavily policed . . . don't wan't to get caught @Hidden In Him over and out . . .

Much love!

Well I would presume based on all that I have received from God that Rom 6:6 should say in effect, "Our old man is to be crucified with him". I am no expert in the ancient languages, but to me it would have mean that to fit the rest of scripture. That is what I believe, but I know that everyone won't be with me on that.

Don't worry too much about @Hidden In Him . I suspect his bark is worse than his bite.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well I would presume based on all that I have received from God that Rom 6:6 should say in effect, "Our old man is to be crucified with him". I am no expert in the ancient languages, but to me it would have mean that to fit the rest of scripture. That is what I believe, but I know that everyone won't be with me on that.

Don't worry too much about @Hidden In Him . I suspect his bark is worse than his bite.

My bite is pretty bad. My saving grace is that I am ever attempting to crucify the old dog!

 

[amadeus]

My bite is pretty bad. My saving grace is that I am ever attempting to crucify the old dog!

Well keep those fangs away from my tender flesh!

 

[ScottA]

If you were talking here about Christ not being "fully formed" in them yet, I understand. But I can't say as I agree with the notion that they identified themselves as not even born again yet simply because they were preaching to both the saved and the unsaved...

I think you are taking "be all things to all men" too far. If they were not already something they were urging their hearers to become, then the logical response from sinners would have been that they needed to worry first about practicing what they preached.

No, it was just a strange time. They were like recovering alcoholics given the power and words of God...one minute amazed and unsure, and the next minute speaking with authority. By design (by God) this has made for a near Schizophrenia and divided nature to the church, prolonging the days until the fullness of the gentiles has come. At this point, we are now witnessing a type of blindness not unlike Israel during the time leading up to and including the time of Christ. Which they remained in and we now have also entered into, until the fullness of time, until the end: God's strength made perfect in weakness. Although we would like to think so, we are no better than they were.

 

[Enoch111]

He don't really see where Enoch was zapped into heaven...it just says "he was not, because he lord took him. "

This is about the lamest explanation that people come up with regarding Enoch. (Using the term "zapped" is both disrespectful to God and inaccurate in how it expresses the Rapture).

So, pray tell, if God indeed is in Heaven, and "God took him", where else would He take him except to Heaven???? If God took Elijah to Heaven, why would he not Rapture Enoch to Heaven?

Some people think Enoch and Elijah went to inner Mongolia (or perhaps the Rub Al Khali in Arabia, or some such absurd notion), but God took them to Heaven. And we know that ALL THE OT SAINTS WERE TAKEN TO HEAVEN by Christ (from Sheol/Hades) upon His resurrection. So why again would Enoch -- a righteous man -- be excluded?

As to the responses from Amadeus, he has already decided what he wants to believe, so why disturb him any further? Those who reject a literal Rapture have no biblical position whatsoever, so it is just conjecture (such as hasn't Christ come to us already?). But there are at least a dozen passages which allude to the Rapture (more precisely the Resurrection/Rapture, since both events are simultaneous -- "in the twinkling of an eye").

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well keep those fangs away from my tender flesh!

 

[Hidden In Him]

At this point, we are now witnessing a type of blindness not unlike Israel during the time leading up to and including the time of Christ.

Well this part I can certainly agree with. The prophecy to Laodicea also applies to us today, unfortunately, and the church as a whole is for the most part "miserable, wretched, blind, poor and naked."

 

[Soverign Grace]

Some spiritualize many of the things scripture talks about, including the rapture. For those who do, I wanted to create a thread to ask for proofs that the rapture of the church is not a literal event. It seems to come up from time to time.

I will start by posting one of the primary texts on it in 1st Thessalonians, but please note: This thread will be strictly limited in scope to minutely dissecting what every verse and word in the relevant passages refers to specifically, and I will police this thread to make sure it stays that way.

Blessings in Christ

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are [now] sleeping, so that you not be grieved even as the rest who do not have hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also will God through Jesus bring with Him those who have fallen asleep. For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are still alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remaining shall be caught away in the clouds to a meeting of the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore, encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

@bbyrd009, @amadeus

I began studying the end times only a short time ago, but found it interesting when I read that the word "Rapture" isn't even in the Bible. Allegedly John Darby invented it in 1830. I know you want to keep your thread on one topic: whether or not it is a 'literal' event, but I thought I'd add that 2 cents I've been reading this and find it hard to believe that so many Christians are taking it as gospel, when it isn't even in there.

The Rapture is Not in the Bible: Why you want to be Left Behind - Rex Deus

 

[Soverign Grace]

My bite is pretty bad. My saving grace is that I am ever attempting to crucify the old dog!

What an adorable pup!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I began studying the end times only a short time ago, but found it interesting when I read that the word "Rapture" isn't even in the Bible. Allegedly John Darby invented it in 1830. I know you want to keep your thread on one topic: whether or not it is a 'literal' event, but I thought I'd add that 2 cents I've been reading this and find it hard to believe that so many Christians are taking it as gospel, when it isn't even in there.

The Rapture is Not in the Bible: Why you want to be Left Behind - Rex Deus

Yeah, I would consider reading that article, but the author calls people morons twice in his opening statement, Soverign Grace. That's the sign of an unsanctified individual whose teachings are therefore going to be highly suspect. As for the common line, the whole Darby argument is a false one. The doctrine of the rapture itself is based on scripture, not Darby. That's simply a way to deflect from having to deal with the scriptures themselves and minimize them in the discussion. The Greek word used means "a catching away," and the word rapture is just a term used to simplify what is being referred to.

 

[charity]

Some spiritualize many of the things scripture talks about, including the rapture. For those who do, I wanted to create a thread to ask for proofs that the rapture of the church is not a literal event. It seems to come up from time to time.

I will start by posting one of the primary texts on it in 1st Thessalonians, but please note: This thread will be strictly limited in scope to minutely dissecting what every verse and word in the relevant passages refers to specifically, and I will police this thread to make sure it stays that way.

Hello @Hidden In Him,

I am disappointed, for I thought you were going to 'police this thread': that serious consideration may be given to the verses you raised from 1 Thessalonians 4, namely verses 13-18. However what I find is largely personal opinion and conjecture, which was what you sought to avoid.

'But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
.. concerning them which are asleep,
.... that ye sorrow not,
...... even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
.. even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
.. that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
.... shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
.. with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
.... and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
...... Then we which are alive and remain
........ shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
.......... to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
..Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

* This was what was anticipated during the period covered by the book of Acts, in answer to the call of God, to Israel, through Peter in chapters 1 & 2, which was:-

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'
(Acts 3:19-21)

* This had the potential to take place at the end of the Acts period, had Israel repented. It now awaits a future day.

* This is an event which will take place, exactly as detailed in 1 & 2 Thessalonians: which were the first two epistles written by Paul, during the Acts period, in anticipation of Israel's repentance, in response to God's call, through Peter.

* However this is not the hope of those who are being called out during this present time. For the administration of God changed when Israel went away into blindness and unbelief, at the end of the Acts period. For us, there will be no trumpet blast, no voice of the Archangel, but when Christ shall appear in glory, we will 'appear' with Him there. This I understand will take place just prior to the event recorded in the verses you have quoted.

'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
(Col 3:3-4)

Thank you, Hidden-In-Him,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

I am disappointed, for I thought you were going to 'police this thread': that serious consideration may be given to the verses you raised from 1 Thessalonians 4, namely verses 13-18. However what I find is largely personal opinion and conjecture, which was what you sought to avoid.

Maybe my fault for joking around too much, but we should keep our joy regardless. You make the request, you do your best, you seek out the authorities at a site, and if nothing can be done, then you keep your joy and just do what you feel the Lord holds you accountable for.

Let me get to your post later on after I take a break. My head is kinda foggy this morning.