Is The Rapture A Literal Event?

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friend of

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As for Israel, they are with the Lord, "the dead in Christ", of whom Jesus was "the Last."

Wasn't he first? as in, first to rise from the dead? First to enter the holiest of holies?

1 Corinthians 15:20 where he says: "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep."

“Where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:20).
 

friend of

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Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is indeed his body, but it is a dead body like Jesus on the cross after he said, It is finished, and before he resurrected from the dead. In the case of the Bible, if we never quench the Spirit it will be quickened within us for use as directed by God.

Gonna have to disagree here. Man can't live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. When manna fell from heaven in the desert, it was an active living yield to the people. God's word is alive and quickened within us when we consume it. Far from being "dead" I would think.
 

marks

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Go to the 'lowest room' with not a single doctrine or favored belief in your hand...

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room
But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11


Sitting at the lowest room, the Master, Jesus, will bid that you go up higher. Many things will remain the same as they were before, but if a change is needed at that moment, you will also be advised, will you not. Everyone is above you except the Master. He is the Master of knowledge and will through the Holy Spirit lead you a change if one is needed.

The guy opposed to you will have to make his own trip to the lowest room.


The Bible already is available and has been for centuries. In spite of that there is a multitude of denominations based on the same scriptures because of men's varying interpretations. You cannot speak for everyone else. You can only speak for yourself. You cannot compel another man to follow you. You can check yourself with God.

Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is indeed his body, but it is a dead body like Jesus on the cross after he said, It is finished, and before he resurrected from the dead. In the case of the Bible, if we never quench the Spirit it will be quickened within us for use as directed by God.

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" Jerem 10:23

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5
For all these words, I don't see where you have offered an answer. Only that the Bible isn't good enough, and we need to pretend we know nothing . . . why, so people who don't believe the Bible is adequate can fill our minds with their thoughts?

I'll stick with the Bible, and discern both my thoughts, and other's thoughts that they may share, according to the Bible. Yep, it's been around a long long time. And just because many don't agree on it's most basic truths, there are a great many who do.

As I say, I do not believe we will be in agreement over very much at all, so I do not believe this correspondance will edify.

Much love!
 

ScottA

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Wasn't he first? as in, first to rise from the dead? First to enter the holiest of holies?

1 Corinthians 15:20 where he says: "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep."

“Where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:20).
Yes, Jesus is both the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Those designations do indeed identify Him, but also our place with Him, and also Israel, the dead and the living in Christ. Those of the house of Israel whom Christ came for are the dead, for they died in their sin. They were the first who are last to enter the kingdom, of whom Christ was the Last. We who are alive and remain in the world for a time are the last who are first to enter the kingdom...and yet we do not proceed the dead (Israel) for they died with Christ, and although they are last to enter the kingdom, they are with Christ and have left the world, therefore they are the first, but last to enter the kingdom. Which words are most confusing if one does not first learn to rightly divide the word of truth into that which is of the kingdom from that which is of the world. Both are written in one word, in the story of One man, Christ Jesus. History is His story.
 

charity

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'For this cause also thank we God without ceasing,
because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,
ye received it not as the word of men,
but as it is in truth,
the word of God, ... ... '

(1 Thessalonians 2:13a)

Hello @Hidden In Him,

Those who deny the truth of what is written in the letters of Paul to the Thessalonians, concerning the event spoken of in the verses you have quoted (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), should take note of what is written in the verse above.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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I began studying the end times only a short time ago, but found it interesting when I read that the word "Rapture" isn't even in the Bible. Allegedly John Darby invented it in 1830. I know you want to keep your thread on one topic: whether or not it is a 'literal' event, but I thought I'd add that 2 cents:) I've been reading this and find it hard to believe that so many Christians are taking it as gospel, when it isn't even in there.

The Rapture is Not in the Bible: Why you want to be Left Behind - Rex Deus

Hello @Soverign Grace,

I agree with you concerning the word, 'Rapture', to describe the event described in 1 & 2 Thessalonians: it is not Biblical. However that does not mean that the event so described is not true. It has to be true, for it is part of God's Word written.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

charity

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Well this part I can certainly agree with. The prophecy to Laodicea also applies to us today, unfortunately, and the church as a whole is for the most part "miserable, wretched, blind, poor and naked."
Hello @Hidden In Him,

Not the Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all. Whose membership is known of God alone.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Enoch111

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I agree with you concerning the word, 'Rapture', to describe the event described in 1 & 2 Thessalonians: it is not Biblical.
The word "Rapture" is biblical to the degree that it is derived from the Latin rapiemur (in the Vulgate), which is the translation for "caught up together".

ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha) is the Greek word from harpazo in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which means catching up, snatching away, seizing. So it is just another lame excuse to claim that the Rapture is not a Bible doctrine.

One could probably use "translated" (as used for Enoch in Hebrews 11:5), but there the Greek word is μετετέθη (metetethē), which means transfer or change (and "translation" today has quite a different meaning). But believers are also changed, caught up together, and then transferred to Heaven at the Rapture.

Some really believe that when God took Enoch He did not take him to Heaven, but that is exactly what God did, because Enoch pleased God.
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It is significant that the Holy Spirit uses the word μετετέθη (metetethē) or its equivalent THREE TIMES in one verse so that we are not left to wonder about the fate of Enoch.
 

Hidden In Him

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Hello @Hidden In Him,

Not the Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all. Whose membership is known of God alone.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes and no here, Charity. Certainly there is a true body today. But I see little evidence that even the true body walks in all the fulness of Him that fills all in all. If we were walking in all His fulness today, we would see Christ manifesting Himself in supernatural works and wonders on a far greater scale than we do. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and when He is in full manifestation His power is made manifest to all.
 

amadeus

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Gonna have to disagree here. Man can't live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. When manna fell from heaven in the desert, it was an active living yield to the people. God's word is alive and quickened within us when we consume it. Far from being "dead" I would think.
I understand your problem with this, but for me it is never consumed by anyone if it is never quickened. Quickened means "brought to Life". A closed Bible never saved anyone.
 

amadeus

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For all these words, I don't see where you have offered an answer. Only that the Bible isn't good enough, and we need to pretend we know nothing . . . why, so people who don't believe the Bible is adequate can fill our minds with their thoughts?

I'll stick with the Bible, and discern both my thoughts, and other's thoughts that they may share, according to the Bible. Yep, it's been around a long long time. And just because many don't agree on it's most basic truths, there are a great many who do.

As I say, I do not believe we will be in agreement over very much at all, so I do not believe this correspondance will edify.

Much love!
I am sorry for the lack of communication between us. May God richly bless you in your walk with Him and may you be edified when edification is needed.
Give God the glory!
 
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marks

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He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and when He is in full manifestation His power is made manifest to all.

But in what form will His power be revealed? It seems to me this is in different ways at different times.

The righteousness of God is being revealed from Faith, to faith. The treasure remains hidden in the field.

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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But in what form will His power be revealed? It seems to me this is in different ways at different times.

The righteousness of God is being revealed from Faith, to faith. The treasure remains hidden in the field.

Your two examples here, marks, are I think talking about things other than your contention in the first statement.
- The increased righteousness of the believer is something that happens to individuals in their walk with God, and all of us are at different places in our walk and have been throughout history.
- The parable of the Treasure in the Field speaks of Christ selling everything (i.e. Heaven), to take the form of man and redeem the church, which He regarded as a treasure worth doing so for.

Not sure I follow...
 

marks

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Your two examples here, marks, are I think talking about things other than your contention in the first statement.
- The increased righteousness of the believer is something that happens to individuals in their walk with God, and all of us are at different places in our walk and have been throughout history.
- The parable of the Treasure in the Field speaks of Christ selling everything (i.e. Heaven), to take the form of man and redeem the church, which He regarded as a treasure worth doing so for.

Not sure I follow...
In what form will His power be revealed . . .

God is revealing His righteousness in us as He builds and imparts greater faith in and to us. This is the revelation He is currently making.

His wrath is also being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness, as God gives the perverse over to their sin.

God's power today I think primarily is being revealed in what He is doing in people.

RE the treasure in the field . . . the treasure is hidden, and the man who finds it hides, it again, and buys the field.

I see this hidden treasure the true church, hidden because it sits inside the false church. The wheat and tares have not yet been separated.

Much love!
 

prism

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Is creation literal or figurative?

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
(Rom 8:20-23)
 

Enoch111

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And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This is a key verse for understanding the Rapture. Our bodies are still subject to death, decay, and corruption. But God's plan is for the redemption of the total person -- body, soul, and spirit. And this can only happen at the Resurrection/Rapture when all the saints are perfected and receive glorified bodies (called "spiritual bodies" since they resemble the angels). It is only in this state that Christians can remain with God and Christ eternally in the New Jerusalem in Heaven.

For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [at the Resurrection/Rapture] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Phil 3:20,21)
 
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charity

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Yes and no here, Charity. Certainly there is a true body today. But I see little evidence that even the true body walks in all the fulness of Him that fills all in all. If we were walking in all His fulness today, we would see Christ manifesting Himself in supernatural works and wonders on a far greater scale than we do. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and when He is in full manifestation His power is made manifest to all.
Hello @Hidden In Him,

The Body of Christ, is the fulness of Him that filleth all in all. It needs nothing more.

* God, in Christ, does not manifest Himself in supernatural works and wonders in this present day. Those manifestations were for the purpose of confirming the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ministry of 'them that heard heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3; Mark 16:20) throughout the Acts period.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Soverign Grace

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Yeah, I would consider reading that article, but the author calls people morons twice in his opening statement, Soverign Grace. That's the sign of an unsanctified individual whose teachings are therefore going to be highly suspect. As for the common line, the whole Darby argument is a false one. The doctrine of the rapture itself is based on scripture, not Darby. That's simply a way to deflect from having to deal with the scriptures themselves and minimize them in the discussion. The Greek word used means "a catching away," and the word rapture is just a term used to simplify what is being referred to.

I know - I didn't like his choice of words and I don't know anything about the site.
 
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Hidden In Him

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* God, in Christ, does not manifest Himself in supernatural works and wonders in this present day. Those manifestations were for the purpose of confirming the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ministry of 'them that heard heard Him' (Hebrews 2:3; Mark 16:20) throughout the Acts period.

Hi sister. This is the typical Cessationist position. My reply usually begins, however, by asking why He wouldn't desire to confirm the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ still today. Is He not still interested in confirming the word with signs and wonders following to those who have their doubts about if the message has any credibility in the modern age?
 

Hidden In Him

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RE the treasure in the field . . . the treasure is hidden, and the man who finds it hides, it again, and buys the field.

I see this hidden treasure the true church, hidden because it sits inside the false church. The wheat and tares have not yet been separated.

That would be a different take on those parables than the way I interpret them, but about the rest of your post, marks, I do agree that He is manifesting Himself in greater faith among believers. But there is so much more to His abilities, as scripture attests from Genesis to Revelation, and I think it is not that He or His desires and plans have changed any. I think it is because we are far more distant from Him at the current time, so the Jesus most people are seeing today is a minimized version. You don't think we are living in a time when the vast majority of what calls itself "Christianity" is very lukewarm and superficial?
 
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