Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
Putting words in peoples mouths is the norm here. Where on earth did I ever say "secret rapture"?
Is The Rapture Theory Biblical?
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Putting words in peoples mouths is the norm here. Where on earth did I ever say "secret rapture"?
If you believed in the rapture , you must stay completely in their teaching. Don't twist the things stay on your point. If you proof that the rapture theory is the truth biblical events, don't tried to changed their believing. If you think when Jesus come no to take the church, and the world will continues for a period of seven years. If that is your beliefs. Then don't ignore the word (SECRET). And if you are not a pastor sent one for me. I have questions for them.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
According to who, you? The only teaching I have stay completely to is the teachings of Jesus Christ and the word of God.
The only one doing the twisting is you.
Well.......its not. You are referring to the pre-tribulation rapture, of which there is no scripture to back up and is not at all what I am proposing. This should be obvious to you, but than again, twisting peoples words is a common occurrence on sites like this.
So you need a pastor to show you something that is self-evident? If you refuse to see whats right in front of you, then there is nothing more I can do for you, and I might as well move on in life. Time always tells the truth in the end.
All the rapture theory teachings are from the same mold. Again who is the author of this beliefs. What is his name. It isn't your teaching. The one who have invented in the 20th century. If you just can tell me his name or her name we can keep talking. Is time to wake up my brother.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes, there will be a 'rapture' of the saints by Jesus.
Don't be deceived by word play. Don't be deceived by men's doctrines.
The word "rapture" is not written in the manuscripts of God's Word nor in any Bible version (that I know of).
The word rapture comes from the Latin translation of 1 Thess.4:17 with the Greek word harpazo ("caught up"):
1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
Don't confuse the above with men's doctrines that teach a rapture before the tribulation (called the Pre-tribulation Rapture).
Don't be deceived by word play. Don't be deceived by men's doctrines.
The word "rapture" is not written in the manuscripts of God's Word nor in any Bible version (that I know of).
The word rapture comes from the Latin translation of 1 Thess.4:17 with the Greek word harpazo ("caught up"):
1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
Don't confuse the above with men's doctrines that teach a rapture before the tribulation (called the Pre-tribulation Rapture).
What would you have us do with the below
Cooked To Death
Saint Lawrence of Rome is more well known for the manner of his death than his ministry in life. When a Roman prefect demanded that the tithes of the Catholic Church be handed over to the Roman state, Lawrence brought forth his impoverished congregation, who he stated were the tithes, as the money had been given them for food. The infuriated prefect ordered metal plates to be set over a bed of coals and heated until they were red-hot. Lawrence was then bound and laid naked on them, face up. His flesh sizzled, smoked, and was burned black, yet Lawrence made no outcry, nor did he beg forgiveness from the prefect. He finally called in a clear voice, “I’m done on that side. Turn me over and eat.” He is now the patron saint of cooks.
Peter, a eunuch of Diocletian’s household, was discovered to be a Christian and cooked in the same manner as Lawrence.
9Dragged To Death
Mark, who wrote the Gospel of Mark, founded the Christian Church in Alexandria and preached to the masses that they should give up their Egyptian gods and goddesses. It’s not clear how long he was able to keep this up, but he did convert many before A.D. 68, when an angry mob tied a rope around his neck and dragged him through the streets behind a chariot for two days without interruption. The dragging continued even after his death, until his bones were showing.
According to some sources, Hippolytus of Rome, an elder under Pope Pontian, was dragged to death behind a wild horse on the island of Sardinia. He is now the patron saint of horses. In 257, Saturninus of Toulouse was dragged behind a bull around the city until the bull was chased down a flight of stone steps and Saturninus’s brain was dashed from his skull.
Julian the Apostate succeeded Constantius II (who succeeded his father, Constantine the Great) in 361. Julian restored the pagan religions to the empire and horribly persecuted Christians. Within two years, he was ordering them sought out and dragged to death in every city and along the caravan routes throughout Palestine.
8Skinned
Removal of the skin is so excruciating that victims invariably passed out multiple times during the torture. To prevent this, they were usually hung upside down so the excess blood flow to their brains forced them to remain conscious. The skin is not easy to remove, and torturers rarely made an effort to remove it in one piece unless they wanted a trophy. Typically, the skin was sliced into strips, then each strip peeled from the body with the aid of a knife. Often, the skin was thrown into a fire or to animals, or dangled before the victim’s eyes.
This is how Bartholomew, one of the 12 apostles, was killed by locals in Armenia, into whose language he translated Matthew’s Gospel. The Armenians refused to abandon their idols and executed Bartholomew by crucifying him upside down and skinning him.
7Sewn Into Skins And Eaten By Dogs
This torture was devised by Nero himself, not merely to cause Christians pain but to entertain him and his guests. Nero was infamously rumored to have crucified Christians on trees in his gardens, coated them with wax, and set them on fire to light his nightly walks (he evidently didn’t mind the stench). Others he ordered sewn into hides—any large animal was skinned, and the prepared skin sewn around the victim except for the head, hands, and feet. Then ravenous dogs were set loose. The victim could only scuttle around on all fours like a crab. Nero was said to have laughed heartily as the dogs gnawed at the skin as they would a bone.
Julian of Antioch was tortured every day for an entire year and displayed to the crowds in every town in Cilicia, (a southern coastal region of what is now Turkey). He was then sewn into a skin filled with asps and scorpions and flung into the Aegean Sea. He was said to have floated all the way across the Mediterranean to Alexandria, Egypt.
Okay because you are defending the rapture theory, I just shown you that Jesus and neither the apostles know about this theory. And from AD 70-1900. Any Christians between all these ages never heard about, a teaching like your teachings today. And are you telling me that it is Biblical? If I'm gonna wrote now about this false teaching they will ban me for sure. Do you know what the apostles says that will happened in our time? Read 2Thess 2:9-12. I am talking to you for the others who let the Holy Spirit guide them, for their salvation. It is impossible for hypnotized people, people with a blocking mind can understand the scriptures. Go findout foundation of your rapture theory believes. My belief come from different denominations,and those people was called by God self and through them God has prepared His remnant church. The only true left in this church who still is hot, they are few who can preached the everlasting gospel. When you tell me the name of the founder of your teacher who wrote this rapture theory we can talk.
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All that you have shown me, now those people they are still in their graves, waiting for Jesus coming for the second time. I don't have the time to write the same thing twice. Go read all I write about this rapture theory. Do you think that all those people who never and ever will know about this false teaching? Do you want me to write the story of this teaching of you? Do you know why the Adventist are few? Because THEY keep God commandments not man commandments. The devil are fighting us because he knows that we can take his mask off so that everbody can see Him. Let me talk to your pastor. I have a question for him or her. If I ask you this question you cannot answered me.What would you have us do with the below
Cooked To Death
Saint Lawrence of Rome is more well known for the manner of his death than his ministry in life. When a Roman prefect demanded that the tithes of the Catholic Church be handed over to the Roman state, Lawrence brought forth his impoverished congregation, who he stated were the tithes, as the money had been given them for food. The infuriated prefect ordered metal plates to be set over a bed of coals and heated until they were red-hot. Lawrence was then bound and laid naked on them, face up. His flesh sizzled, smoked, and was burned black, yet Lawrence made no outcry, nor did he beg forgiveness from the prefect. He finally called in a clear voice, “I’m done on that side. Turn me over and eat.” He is now the patron saint of cooks.
Peter, a eunuch of Diocletian’s household, was discovered to be a Christian and cooked in the same manner as Lawrence.
9Dragged To Death
Mark, who wrote the Gospel of Mark, founded the Christian Church in Alexandria and preached to the masses that they should give up their Egyptian gods and goddesses. It’s not clear how long he was able to keep this up, but he did convert many before A.D. 68, when an angry mob tied a rope around his neck and dragged him through the streets behind a chariot for two days without interruption. The dragging continued even after his death, until his bones were showing.
According to some sources, Hippolytus of Rome, an elder under Pope Pontian, was dragged to death behind a wild horse on the island of Sardinia. He is now the patron saint of horses. In 257, Saturninus of Toulouse was dragged behind a bull around the city until the bull was chased down a flight of stone steps and Saturninus’s brain was dashed from his skull.
Julian the Apostate succeeded Constantius II (who succeeded his father, Constantine the Great) in 361. Julian restored the pagan religions to the empire and horribly persecuted Christians. Within two years, he was ordering them sought out and dragged to death in every city and along the caravan routes throughout Palestine.
8Skinned
Removal of the skin is so excruciating that victims invariably passed out multiple times during the torture. To prevent this, they were usually hung upside down so the excess blood flow to their brains forced them to remain conscious. The skin is not easy to remove, and torturers rarely made an effort to remove it in one piece unless they wanted a trophy. Typically, the skin was sliced into strips, then each strip peeled from the body with the aid of a knife. Often, the skin was thrown into a fire or to animals, or dangled before the victim’s eyes.
This is how Bartholomew, one of the 12 apostles, was killed by locals in Armenia, into whose language he translated Matthew’s Gospel. The Armenians refused to abandon their idols and executed Bartholomew by crucifying him upside down and skinning him.
7Sewn Into Skins And Eaten By Dogs
This torture was devised by Nero himself, not merely to cause Christians pain but to entertain him and his guests. Nero was infamously rumored to have crucified Christians on trees in his gardens, coated them with wax, and set them on fire to light his nightly walks (he evidently didn’t mind the stench). Others he ordered sewn into hides—any large animal was skinned, and the prepared skin sewn around the victim except for the head, hands, and feet. Then ravenous dogs were set loose. The victim could only scuttle around on all fours like a crab. Nero was said to have laughed heartily as the dogs gnawed at the skin as they would a bone.
Julian of Antioch was tortured every day for an entire year and displayed to the crowds in every town in Cilicia, (a southern coastal region of what is now Turkey). He was then sewn into a skin filled with asps and scorpions and flung into the Aegean Sea. He was said to have floated all the way across the Mediterranean to Alexandria, Egypt.
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Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
You see, this is why I don't often bother with people who refuse to see the obvious, who will prefer to 'spiritualize' every single detail making the word of God of no effect. When Paul states on no uncertain terms that the saints will meet God in the sky, they will STILL twist this and reduce what is plainly stated both by Paul and Jesus himself as a literal world wide event that is witnessed by every living soul into some king of allegorical hog wash. I have no time for the willfully dense.
Truth
Well-Known Member
People that have been deceived through Biblical Theology will seldom turn to what the Scriptures actually say. The Key Here is The Last Trump, I tell you a Mystery Brethren, we shall all not sleep, and those who are still alive, will be changed at the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP.
Most people do not want to serve a God that would let them even smell the beginning of the Tribulation, let alone see the Shutting down of the Alter, which begins the Last Three and a Half years of the Great Tribulation, which ends at the Last Trump, when those that sleep are resurrected, and those who are still alive, will be change in the Twinkling of an eye, and are Gathered together with Him in the Sky! Just as Noah Floated Above Gods Judgment from the Flood, So shall we Float Above the Bowls of Wrath poured Out on the Earth.
Be Grateful that you have this Understanding, Pray that the scales fall from the eyes of those that don't, And always give Our Father and Savior the Glory, for the gift of Salvation! Be Blessed! Don't worry about being banned, Just try to be kind as your Savior would have you be. Truth will always be Truth !!!!!
What would you have us do with the below
Cooked To Death
Saint Lawrence of Rome is more well known for the manner of his death than his ministry in life. When a Roman prefect demanded that the tithes of the Catholic Church be handed over to the Roman state, Lawrence brought forth his impoverished congregation, who he stated were the tithes, as the money had been given them for food. The infuriated prefect ordered metal plates to be set over a bed of coals and heated until they were red-hot. Lawrence was then bound and laid naked on them, face up. His flesh sizzled, smoked, and was burned black, yet Lawrence made no outcry, nor did he beg forgiveness from the prefect. He finally called in a clear voice, “I’m done on that side. Turn me over and eat.” He is now the patron saint of cooks.
Peter, a eunuch of Diocletian’s household, was discovered to be a Christian and cooked in the same manner as Lawrence.
9Dragged To Death
Mark, who wrote the Gospel of Mark, founded the Christian Church in Alexandria and preached to the masses that they should give up their Egyptian gods and goddesses. It’s not clear how long he was able to keep this up, but he did convert many before A.D. 68, when an angry mob tied a rope around his neck and dragged him through the streets behind a chariot for two days without interruption. The dragging continued even after his death, until his bones were showing.
According to some sources, Hippolytus of Rome, an elder under Pope Pontian, was dragged to death behind a wild horse on the island of Sardinia. He is now the patron saint of horses. In 257, Saturninus of Toulouse was dragged behind a bull around the city until the bull was chased down a flight of stone steps and Saturninus’s brain was dashed from his skull.
Julian the Apostate succeeded Constantius II (who succeeded his father, Constantine the Great) in 361. Julian restored the pagan religions to the empire and horribly persecuted Christians. Within two years, he was ordering them sought out and dragged to death in every city and along the caravan routes throughout Palestine.
8Skinned
Removal of the skin is so excruciating that victims invariably passed out multiple times during the torture. To prevent this, they were usually hung upside down so the excess blood flow to their brains forced them to remain conscious. The skin is not easy to remove, and torturers rarely made an effort to remove it in one piece unless they wanted a trophy. Typically, the skin was sliced into strips, then each strip peeled from the body with the aid of a knife. Often, the skin was thrown into a fire or to animals, or dangled before the victim’s eyes.
This is how Bartholomew, one of the 12 apostles, was killed by locals in Armenia, into whose language he translated Matthew’s Gospel. The Armenians refused to abandon their idols and executed Bartholomew by crucifying him upside down and skinning him.
7Sewn Into Skins And Eaten By Dogs
This torture was devised by Nero himself, not merely to cause Christians pain but to entertain him and his guests. Nero was infamously rumored to have crucified Christians on trees in his gardens, coated them with wax, and set them on fire to light his nightly walks (he evidently didn’t mind the stench). Others he ordered sewn into hides—any large animal was skinned, and the prepared skin sewn around the victim except for the head, hands, and feet. Then ravenous dogs were set loose. The victim could only scuttle around on all fours like a crab. Nero was said to have laughed heartily as the dogs gnawed at the skin as they would a bone.
Julian of Antioch was tortured every day for an entire year and displayed to the crowds in every town in Cilicia, (a southern coastal region of what is now Turkey). He was then sewn into a skin filled with asps and scorpions and flung into the Aegean Sea. He was said to have floated all the way across the Mediterranean to Alexandria, Egypt.
The problem here is just for you, the rapture theory teaches this. And I will show you and others where you have miss all this "caught up" if you use the right words for the events. I will drop a BIBLICAL BOMB. The BIBLE BOMB is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter, Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming. Let's look at what He says: Matthew 13:24-30.....'Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, the kingdom of heaven is likend unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit. Then appeared the tares also. So these servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir.dids't not thou sowed good seed in the field? From whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, an enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay [NO] let's while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: And in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: But gather the weat into my barn!You see, this is why I don't often bother with people who refuse to see the obvious, who will prefer to 'spiritualize' every single detail making the word of God of no effect. When Paul states on no uncertain terms that the saints will meet God in the sky, they will STILL twist this and reduce what is plainly stated both by Paul and Jesus himself as a literal world wide event that is witnessed by every living soul into some king of allegorical hog wash. I have no time for the willfully dense.
WoW! I love the Word of God. It is so clear that we need not second guess what is going to happen. So what are we told in the pre - tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gather" His people BEFORE the tribulation and separate the "wheat and the tares.' BEFORE the harvest. And yet what does it clearly state in the Bible verse above? That the separation only takes place AT the harvest. Now look at the meaning of the parable.
Matthew 13:38-40....' The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; THE HARVEST IS THE END OF THE WORLD; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; SO SHALL it be in the end of the world! Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not be deceived! Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD.
Dcopymope
Well-Known Member
......*sigh*....good lord........Yes, the saints will be here with the wicked with Jesus until the end of the world, which doesn't even occur until after the 1,000 year reign. Nothing you quoted disproves the pre-seven vials rapture that Jesus Christ plainly refers to later in the book of Matthew, his actual second coming. THAT is what I am referring to, NOT a pre-tribulation rapture. The Great Tribulation ends by Rev 13. At that point, the saints are standing on the 'sea' which symbolizes earth in victory over the beast, his number and his mark. Every single event Jesus referred to concerning the last days is spelled out for you blow by blow in Revelation. Try actually reading Revelation from end to end and than maybe you will see it, its not rocket science.
Uhmmmm!! Incredible with mind blocker. Jesus help me hammered those brains. Item your words says end of the WORLD. And explained by Jesus the ignore The words of God.
Remember these verses as well, brother:
"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." I Cor 3:6
We may have the truth as God gave it to us, but we may not always be able to convince others that we are right and they are wrong:
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
My friend it is not for the one who don't intrest in the truth. It is for those who read anonymous and God toughed them, Jesus never stop talking to nobody and stop teaching. So my duty IS TO FOLLOW MY MASTER JESUS OF NAZARETH.
Naomi25
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Rev 12:17 speaks of Israel during the Great Tribulation. The saints are clearly still here at this point. As for Rev 14:12, the verses before and after clears the air, this goes for Rev 18:4 as well.
Earth is the sea of glass:
We won't be on the earth at this point, we will be standing on it in victory, singing and having a good time.
Hi! I just wanted to ask you about this. I know that as a general rule, what most Dispensationalists say about all the suffering during those last 7 years. They say that there is a difference, between the misery that people doll out on their fellow man, and the wrath that God will pour out on unrepentant mankind. That's why we endure suffering now, but will be taken out of the way then.
But...I do wonder if the Tribulation will be that cut and dried. We know that a lot of what will happen in those 7 years will be mankind acting against mankind. In fact, it seems that a lot of the 'saints' who die will be at the hands of man. So I must wonder about this explanation.
I also have to wonder because of the nature of the 'judgements' of God. If we're talking massive earthquakes, water pollution, wars, famines, disease, that sort of thing...they're all quite terrible, I don't doubt it, and I'm sure what will make them truly staggering is the scale they happen on...but...these things happen now. Christians are enduring them now. How is a family of Christians dying from starvation now, any different from then? Maybe then it will be a thousand families. But for those suffering through the particular persecution, the 'scale' doesn't make much difference to them, nor the root cause.
I don't know that we can show from scripture that God will allow all of us to escape such suffering. We have "pray that you may", and then a whole lot of references of endurance. And for a lot of Christians today, who live in war torn countries, or earthquake prone countries, or famine prone counties, or poor health countries where disease and death are high, or countries where Christianity is illegal....their suffering could not become any worse. And yet these Christian brothers and sisters still hold fast to their faith. I think, sometimes, speaking of whisking away from it all, of 'having a good time' does not pay respects to their strength and courage. Or acknowledge that God may ask us to face the same.
You see, this is why I don't often bother with people who refuse to see the obvious, who will prefer to 'spiritualize' every single detail making the word of God of no effect. When Paul states on no uncertain terms that the saints will meet God in the sky, they will STILL twist this and reduce what is plainly stated both by Paul and Jesus himself as a literal world wide event that is witnessed by every living soul into some king of allegorical hog wash. I have no time for the willfully dense.
You know, strangely enough, people who "spiritualize" the bible are stereotyped just as much as those who "read every single part literally". I most certainly don't think you think God is actually a giant fluffy hen, so perhaps you could return the favor and realize that I do not 'spiritualize every single detail' of God's word. The over emphasis is untrue and unworthy, and it hardly brings helpful dialogue.
Having said that, I most certainly do believe in the Rapture. That we will meet Jesus in the air is clearly taught in scripture. I believe it's the timing of it that's the issue!
Aslong you keep your eyes on literal things, you miss the spiritual things. And that is the deception.
Helen
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Agree, it is not what the bible says...it is all in what we each 'think' that the bible says!!! Trouble is, we don't all come to the same conclusion!
But, that said...we are each responsible before God for what He has spoken to us. THat's where our obedience comes into the picture.
Daily contact with God is necessary. If we are way off on something but we are sincere, God will tell us... if we are staying in touch with Him. We may not even know that we need to repent of something or know that we are deluded in somethin if we never make room for God for Him to tell us about it. This is why simply reading the Bible is NOT enough.
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