Is the story of Noah literal?

[Windmillcharge]

Thank you for putting words into my mouth

How else am I to understand your post 36
"you mean like the quantity and quality of research and evidence there is for evolution"

 

[Deborah_]

If not, then neither is the Bible, nor the God of the Bible.

This doesn't follow. Not all parts of the Bible are "literal". Jesus' parables aren't true stories. The poetry (the psalms, large chunks of Isaiah and the other prophets, Song of Songs) contains a lot of metaphorical pictures that shouldn't be interpreted literally. And let's not get started on Revelation...
There are in fact plenty of clues that suggest that the first few chapters of Genesis are not "literal" (that doesn't mean that the events didn't happen, just that they aren't described in a historical manner).

In the Beginning

Genesis 1-11 is probably one of the most controversial parts of the Bible. There are several reasons for this, but surely the main one is that it deals with such fundamental issues: the origins and…

deborahsbiblestudies.wordpress.com

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Gen 6:15a . .This is how you shall make it:

Some folks object that since paper and writing were not yet invented in
Noah's day, then God couldn't possible have provided him with plans for the
ark. But even a pictograph, or a petro glyph, would've sufficed.

Other skeptics object that a wooden vessel the size of Noah's ark couldn't be
built because the timbers required for its structural strength would have
been so massive that Noah would never have managed to assemble its
pieces and parts.

But ancient craftsmen were far more ingenious than most people living
today realize. For example, nobody yet has really figured out how the
Egyptians built the pyramids nor how the people of Easter Island cut,
carved, and moved all those big stone heads around. And those aren't the
only projects to mystify us. There are ancient stone structures around the
world-- e.g. Stonehenge --that seem impossible to be erected by human
hands prior to the age of heavy industrial machinery; but nevertheless,
there they are.

And not to forget that God was in the project. Since that's the case, it's not
unreasonable to assume God also provided Noah the tools necessary to
complete the task He assigned; and very, very possibly chipped in to help
out with the construction too. When people fail to factor in God, they
invariably end up mystified. To this day scientists are baffled about the
origin of the cosmos, with all of its life, matter, and energy, because they
refuse to factor intelligent design into their thinking.

How did Noah cut the logs that went into constructing the ark? Well;
according to the Bible, Cain's people were proficient with metals. If nothing
else; it's probably pretty certain that Noah had at least a metal hammer and
an axe; maybe several metal hammers and axes; and quite possibly saws
and wedges too.

"And Zillah she too bore Tubal-cain, who sharpened all tools that cut copper
and iron" (Gen 4:2, Chabad.org)

How did Noah join the logs and other wooden pieces that went into
constructing the ark? Well; you know, a good cabinet maker can assemble a
very nice armoire without using nuts and bolts by the strategic use of dowels
and clever joinery like grooves, rabbets, dovetails, mortises, and tenons.

Others object that a wooden vessel the size of the ark would never hold up
on the open sea without steel reinforcement; especially when the super
storm of Gen 8:1 began blowing to mop up the water. But again; those
skeptics typically fail to factor God's involvement in the Flood. You really
think He left the only surviving humans and the only surviving beasts on the
whole planet to the mercy of the elements?

The Flood was a miraculous event that worked by manipulating the laws of
nature. With God's involvement, even a house of cards would've survived
the Flood had He wished it to because the strength of natural materials isn't
fixed; they can be greatly enhanced, e.g. Samson (Judg 13:2-16:31). He
was just an ordinary man of flesh and bone; but God made Samson strong
enough to do things that no one man alone could possibly attempt
unassisted.
_

 

[TinMan]

.
● Gen 6:15a . .This is how you shall make it:

Some folks object that since paper and writing were not yet invented in
Noah's day, then God couldn't possible have provided him with plans for the
ark. But even a pictograph, or a petro glyph, would've sufficed.

Other skeptics object that a wooden vessel the size of Noah's ark couldn't be
built because the timbers required for its structural strength would have
been so massive that Noah would never have managed to assemble its
pieces and parts.

But ancient craftsmen were far more ingenious than most people living
today realize. For example, nobody yet has really figured out how the
Egyptians built the pyramids nor how the people of Easter Island cut,
carved, and moved all those big stone heads around. And those aren't the
only projects to mystify us. There are ancient stone structures around the
world-- e.g. Stonehenge --that seem impossible to be erected by human
hands prior to the age of heavy industrial machinery; but nevertheless,
there they are.

These actually aren't big mysteries at all.

And not to forget that God was in the project. Since that's the case, it's not
unreasonable to assume God also provided Noah the tools necessary to
complete the task He assigned; and very, very possibly chipped in to help
out with the construction too.

Why not just provide the ark premade?

When people fail to factor in God, they
invariably end up mystified. To this day scientists are baffled about the
origin of the cosmos, with all of its life, matter, and energy, because they
refuse to factor intelligent design into their thinking.

they really aren't that baffled.

How did Noah cut the logs that went into constructing the ark? Well;
according to the Bible, Cain's people were proficient with metals. If nothing
else; it's probably pretty certain that Noah had at least a metal hammer and
an axe; maybe several metal hammers and axes; and quite possibly saws
and wedges too.

"And Zillah she too bore Tubal-cain, who sharpened all tools that cut copper
and iron" (Gen 4:2, Chabad.org)

How did Noah join the logs and other wooden pieces that went into
constructing the ark? Well; you know, a good cabinet maker can assemble a
very nice armoire without using nuts and bolts by the strategic use of dowels
and clever joinery like grooves, rabbets, dovetails, mortises, and tenons.

Others object that a wooden vessel the size of the ark would never hold up
on the open sea without steel reinforcement; especially when the super
storm of Gen 8:1 began blowing to mop up the water. But again; those
skeptics typically fail to factor God's involvement in the Flood. You really
think He left the only surviving humans and the only surviving beasts on the
whole planet to the mercy of the elements?

if so they why bother with the ark at all?

The Flood was a miraculous event that worked by manipulating the laws of
nature. With God's involvement, even a house of cards would've survived
the Flood had He wished it to because the strength of natural materials isn't
fixed; they can be greatly enhanced, e.g. Samson (Judg 13:2-16:31). He
was just an ordinary man of flesh and bone; but God made Samson strong
enough to do things that no one man alone could possibly attempt
unassisted.
_

Seems like it would have been easier to just talk to the handful of wicked people and inspire them to be better.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All wooden boats leak whether under sail or sitting in a harbor. How much leakage is dependant on the size of the boat. THe bigger the boat the more it leak.

Not necessarily. Remember this boat was covered bothin and out with pitch, which was probably some type of tar which would make a great sealant for the purposes it was needed for.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, pitch made from bituminous coal. But wait...there was no coal before the flood. Hmmmm

Maybe made from coal. But as science produced a barrel of heavy oil from one ton of garbage in 2 days making coal over several centuries is not hard. things were dying and decaying pre flood.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

ms like it would have been easier to just talk to the handful of wicked people and inspire them to be better.

Noah spent 120 years preaching while he was building. End result- no one got on board, as it is written:

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[TinMan]

Not necessarily. Remember this boat was covered bothin and out with pitch,

I guess the Spanish just never thought of sealing their galleons.

which was probably some type of tar which would make a great sealant for the purposes it was needed for.

and tar is made from coal....which could not have existed before the flood.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To stabilize the hull the paper here indicates that more than 60% of the interior would have to be filled with bracing...adding about 2000 more trees to the total needed. They didn't address just how anything would fit inside with all that bracing.

What isn't addressed is the problem a boat this size would have with leaking. There is a reason that Spanish galleons were the largest wooded boats ever. Their size was limited to how much water could be pumped out of the galleon.

Well I can't speak to this paper, but I know ICR has done extensive research on how the ark may have been built.

1. It was most likely a simple barge like construction. Itr was not designed to be a cruise ship, but simply to house those who would repopulate the planet.

2. In wave tanks this design was tested and found to right itself when tilted almost 90 degrees

3. It was demonstrated that if Noah had built tongue and groove- that would add enormous extra strength to the hull

4. As the ark was filled with pens for animal storage, it had enormous bracing. It was also demonstrated that if these pens were honeycombed in their layout, it would greatly increase teh strength of the ship.

 

[TinMan]

Maybe made from coal. But as science produced a barrel of heavy oil from one ton of garbage in 2 days making coal over several centuries is not hard. things were dying and decaying pre flood.

nothing annoys me more then when my compost bin gives me coal

 

[Ronald Nolette]

you mean the type that is actually science

No OE evolutionary thought, is the accepted answer by the vast supermajority of scientists. That does not make it science but a consensus of science.

Real empirical testing and following what are the proven laws show Evolution and massive ages are scientifically impossible.

 

[TinMan]

Noah spent 120 years preaching while he was building. End result- no one got on board, as it is written:

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

don't see anything about 120 years of preaching. But then why would Noah have to? if God was running around miracleing up all the stuff needed to make the ark why not just miracle up some better people?

 

[Cassandra]

These actually aren't big mysteries at all.

Why not just provide the ark premade?

they really aren't that baffled.



if so they why bother with the ark at all?

Seems like it would have been easier to just talk to the handful of wicked people and inspire them to be better.

Wasn't a handful--it was almost the whole world.
And the Ark being built was a witness that something was going to happen, as was the animals coming to it.

 

[TinMan]

Well I can't speak to this paper, but I know ICR has done extensive research on how the ark may have been built.

1. It was most likely a simple barge like construction. Itr was not designed to be a cruise ship, but simply to house those who would repopulate the planet.

2. In wave tanks this design was tested and found to right itself when tilted almost 90 degrees

3. It was demonstrated that if Noah had built tongue and groove- that would add enormous extra strength to the hull

4. As the ark was filled with pens for animal storage, it had enormous bracing. It was also demonstrated that if these pens were honeycombed in their layout, it would greatly increase teh strength of the ship.

and it still would have leaked

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I guess the Spanish just never thought of sealing their galleons.


and tar is made from coal....which could not have existed before the flood.

Well I will not speak for the spanish. They appeared to have and after searching encycolpedias on line, couldn't find one that spoke of leakage problems with them. Perhaps you can cite a reputable source?

Maybe or maybe not tar as we know it today, but there was some form of pitch that sealed the boat.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

nothing annoys me more then when my compost bin gives me coal

well if your compost bin is filled with trees- yes. Otherwise your sarcasm is duly noted.

 

[TinMan]

No OE evolutionary thought, is the accepted answer by the vast supermajority of scientists. That does not make it science but a consensus of science.

Real empirical testing and following what are the proven laws show Evolution and massive ages are scientifically impossible.

what testing are you talking about?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

don't see anything about 120 years of preaching. But then why would Noah have to? if God was running around miracleing up all the stuff needed to make the ark why not just miracle up some better people?

Well that would take a new thread and many many pages of theology to answer your cynical question.

2 Peter 2:5

King James Version

​

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Genesis 6
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. ..

From this decree to teh flood was 120 years. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, so He preached while He built and probably at night.

I am sure he drew crowds as no one had seen such a boat of that size ever.

God wasn't miracling up all the stuff. It was all in proximate location.

God created people and set teh patter inmotion. He created Adam and Eve perfect, and they fell.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

and it still would have leaked

Well with all the waves and the rain, I 'm sure it did. You want it to leak terribly and nothing in the account said it did. It lasted a little over a year as it was designed to! Maybe they brought extra pitch to fix leaks. We weren't there so we have to rely on Noahs writings to know.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

what testing are you talking about?

All forms of radiometric dating are hopelessly flawed.

• Argon–argon (Ar–Ar)
• Iodine–xenon (I–Xe)
• Lanthanum–barium (La–Ba)
• Lead–lead (Pb–Pb)
• Lutetium–hafnium (Lu–Hf)
• Hafnium–tungsten dating (Hf-W)
• Potassium–calcium (K–Ca)
• Rhenium–osmium (Re–Os)
• Uranium–uranium (U–U)
• Krypton–krypton (Kr–Kr)
• Beryllium (10Be–9Be)[34]

• Uranium–lead dating method​

• Samarium–neodymium dating method​

• Potassium–argon dating method​

• Rubidium–strontium dating method​

• Uranium–thorium dating method​

• Fission track dating method​

• Chlorine-36 dating method​

• Luminescence dating methods​

All of these start with the same failed assumptions which are beyond the scientific method. and empirical testing and results have shown the decay constant is not constant.​