Is the story of Noah literal?

[Wrangler]

I'm going to the Life-size Noah’s Ark in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know.

 

[RLT63]

This topic has been thoroughly dealt with by both answersingenesis and creation.com.
In fact there is a technically analysis of the Arks sea keeping qualities by Christ Korean naval archiectec.
Look at:-
Creation.com/safety-investigation-of-noahs-ark-ina-seaway

Thanks for the post

 

[ScottA]

Is the flood of Genesis story literal? I have always thought that it was because Jesus referred to the days of Noah and AIG and YECs do a good job of presenting it as literal, what do y’all think? Are Noah’s ark and flood literal scientific facts? « SMR blog

1. A large percentage of the world’s fauna, including, for example, dodos, sloths, penguins, kangaroos, koalas and many other species, are not native to the Middle East (assuming that was the location of Noah’s ark). How did they travel there to board the ark?
2. Island species are particularly vulnerable to predators — when predators have been introduced to an island, they often drive indigenous species to extinction (as has happened in Australia, Hawaii, the Galapagos and numerous other islands). Thus such species would not have been able to survive in the Middle East, away from their naturally protected habitats.
3. The total mass of on-board animals would have been some 400,000 kg, if only yearlings were taken, or some 5 million kg, if adults were taken. Either figure is far more than could be accommodated in the ark as described in the Bible and reconstructed in Kentucky.
4. The figures in the previous item do not include food and water for a one-year sojourn, which would multiply the weight by at least 10 times if not more. Further, many animals require special diets — silkworms require mulberry leaves, Pandas require bamboo, and snakes, for example, require fresh food. How could fresh food be provided for a full year?
5. How could large numbers of animals be protected from the many on-board predators, such as lions and tigers?

These questions and challenges come as a result of not fully understanding just what the world is.

First, "literal" is not defined by the creation, but by the Creator. By God saying that man was "made in the image of God" (of the dust of the earth), He may only have eluded to all that is true-- but by definition, He has defined everything made of the same substance as man, as "image"--not "literal." Is the image in the mirror "literal?"

1 Corinthians 13:12​

For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.​

The world is not God building a new house--the house is not in the world, but in heaven. On the contrary, the world is a "dim" or partial [small] "image" of things in heaven. "Wars and rumors of wars" depict wars in heaven, and "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." The world rather is but a small manifestation of all that is in heaven. It is for revelation, the evidence of crimes against God, and the last will and testament of all mankind--"the man of sin revealed" before the Judgement. We are the man of sin revealed. "Then comes the end."

So...is the story of Noah real or literal? --All of it is literal, and none of it is literal. The stories of the Bible are indeed as real as you and I. But just as the image in a mirror only reveals what is actually real, what is written and comes to pass is likewise only a living parable. Parables are the chosen method of God. Why?

Matthew 13:13-15​

And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”​

​

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:​

​

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,​

And seeing you will see and not perceive;​

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.​

Their ears are hard of hearing,​

And their eyes they have closed,​

Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,​

Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,​

So that I should heal them."​

Again, this is only a small enactment of the larger use of the parables that define everything that is made manifest in the world. It's all parables/images.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is literal.

It is also the only event which explain what we see in the world today. Unless you believe in an old earth evolutionary type of science..

 

[Jack]

"Is the story of Noah literal?"

Of course it's literal. Jesus said so.

Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Peter, whom Jesus taught in person said so.

1 Peter 3 ... in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

2 Peter 2
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

 

[TinMan]

It is literal.

It is also the only event which explain what we see in the world today.

What does it explain?

Unless you believe in an old earth evolutionary type of science..

you mean the type that is actually science

 

[TinMan]

This topic has been thoroughly dealt with by both answersingenesis and creation.com.
In fact there is a technically analysis of the Arks sea keeping qualities by Christ Korean naval archiectec.
Look at:-
Creation.com/safety-investigation-of-noahs-ark-ina-seaway

The page is missing, Creation.com seems to be suggesting that its disappearance had something to do with a UFO.

The guy who wrote the technical analysis of the ark is an engineer? a specialist in maritime construction?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does it explain?

everything

you mean the type that is actually science

Science? Naa,, I have seen the research..

 

[TinMan]

everything

you just explained nothing.

Science? Naa,, I have seen the research..

What research? the geological? the genetic? the engineering? the anthropological? the historic?

 

[Windmillcharge]

The page is missing, Creation.com seems to be suggesting that its disappearance had something to do with a UFO.

The guy who wrote the technical analysis of the ark is an engineer? a specialist in maritime construction?

Safety investigation of Noah's Ark in a seaway

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.

creation.com

It was a group of naval architects.

 

[Windmillcharge]

you mean the type that is actually science

Science is not science because the practitioners believe something strange or different from other practitioners.
What counts is the quality of there research, there evidence and how they explain there research findings.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

100% literal and TRUE!

Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, spoke of Noah and his ark, as factual. Period!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is the flood of Genesis story literal? I have always thought that it was because Jesus referred to the days of Noah and AIG and YECs do a good job of presenting it as literal, what do y’all think? Are Noah’s ark and flood literal scientific facts? « SMR blog

1. A large percentage of the world’s fauna, including, for example, dodos, sloths, penguins, kangaroos, koalas and many other species, are not native to the Middle East (assuming that was the location of Noah’s ark). How did they travel there to board the ark?
2. Island species are particularly vulnerable to predators — when predators have been introduced to an island, they often drive indigenous species to extinction (as has happened in Australia, Hawaii, the Galapagos and numerous other islands). Thus such species would not have been able to survive in the Middle East, away from their naturally protected habitats.
3. The total mass of on-board animals would have been some 400,000 kg, if only yearlings were taken, or some 5 million kg, if adults were taken. Either figure is far more than could be accommodated in the ark as described in the Bible and reconstructed in Kentucky.
4. The figures in the previous item do not include food and water for a one-year sojourn, which would multiply the weight by at least 10 times if not more. Further, many animals require special diets — silkworms require mulberry leaves, Pandas require bamboo, and snakes, for example, require fresh food. How could fresh food be provided for a full year?
5. How could large numbers of animals be protected from the many on-board predators, such as lions and tigers?

5. Well the easy answer to five is that God stopped their predatory ways for the year. But ICR has many valid and researched theories on the why's. We will never have a definitive answer because there is no record of how they co-existed for a year.

1. they do not exist in the middle east now. but hey were all created in teh middle east so it is easy to say they stayed there. also the earth pre-flood was one land mass.

2. YOu forget that the pre flood world was one land mass and all animals existed in that one land (science calls it pangaia) And that the earth was vastly different pre flood than post flood.

3. YOu are making the erroneous assumption that two of each uniques species were taken aboard. That is not the case. What was boarded was two of each kind (two snake kind, two elephant kind, two dog kind, etc.) ICR also has an excellent paper discussing this. We know that one species can change to many other species through the work of Brother Gregor Mendel.

4. Once again this is most likely not the case. We see the traits of hibernation and estivation in so many many animals. So this would vastly reduce the need for food. Also special diets need not be a problem. Many animals can switch diets when their natural foods disappear. And we simply do not know what animals ate pre flood. They were all created vegetarians. Carnivore habits did not occur until some time after the fall.

Also the earth itself bears witness to enormouc catastrophism which is answered by the Noahic flood.

 

[RLT63]

5. Well the easy answer to five is that God stopped their predatory ways for the year. But ICR has many valid and researched theories on the why's. We will never have a definitive answer because there is no record of how they co-existed for a year.

1. they do not exist in the middle east now. but hey were all created in teh middle east so it is easy to say they stayed there. also the earth pre-flood was one land mass.

2. YOu forget that the pre flood world was one land mass and all animals existed in that one land (science calls it pangaia) And that the earth was vastly different pre flood than post flood.

3. YOu are making the erroneous assumption that two of each uniques species were taken aboard. That is not the case. What was boarded was two of each kind (two snake kind, two elephant kind, two dog kind, etc.) ICR also has an excellent paper discussing this. We know that one species can change to many other species through the work of Brother Gregor Mendel.

4. Once again this is most likely not the case. We see the traits of hibernation and estivation in so many many animals. So this would vastly reduce the need for food. Also special diets need not be a problem. Many animals can switch diets when their natural foods disappear. And we simply do not know what animals ate pre flood. They were all created vegetarians. Carnivore habits did not occur until some time after the fall.

Also the earth itself bears witness to enormouc catastrophism which is answered by the Noahic flood.

Thanks for the response but those are not my objections, I listed a link where I got that from. I’m not advocating literal or non literal I’m trying to hear from both sides

 

[TinMan]

Safety investigation of Noah's Ark in a seaway

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.

creation.com

It was a group of naval architects.

Thank you for the information.

One has to note that none of these learned people have included this study, which is claimed to be peer reviewed in any of their publication biographies. I wonder why.

Maybe it has something to do with their assumption that somehow trees grew much larger than they do now and would "grown taller than 10 metres" and "weighed about 5 tonnes" about 3 times what a stone block from the great pyramid weighs but doesn't go into just how Noah and his three sons would have been able to harvest, transport and place a 5 ton log. They say Noah would have needed just 800 of these logs but if you crunch some numbers that would be a fraction of the material needed for the dimensions of the ark the paper describes.

To stabilize the hull the paper here indicates that more than 60% of the interior would have to be filled with bracing...adding about 2000 more trees to the total needed. They didn't address just how anything would fit inside with all that bracing.

What isn't addressed is the problem a boat this size would have with leaking. There is a reason that Spanish galleons were the largest wooded boats ever. Their size was limited to how much water could be pumped out of the galleon.

 

[TinMan]

Science is not science because the practitioners believe something strange or different from other practitioners.
What counts is the quality of there research, there evidence and how they explain there research findings.

you mean like the quantity and quality of research and evidence there is for evolution.

 

[dev553344]

Is the flood of Genesis story literal? I have always thought that it was because Jesus referred to the days of Noah and AIG and YECs do a good job of presenting it as literal, what do y’all think? Are Noah’s ark and flood literal scientific facts? « SMR blog

1. A large percentage of the world’s fauna, including, for example, dodos, sloths, penguins, kangaroos, koalas and many other species, are not native to the Middle East (assuming that was the location of Noah’s ark). How did they travel there to board the ark?
2. Island species are particularly vulnerable to predators — when predators have been introduced to an island, they often drive indigenous species to extinction (as has happened in Australia, Hawaii, the Galapagos and numerous other islands). Thus such species would not have been able to survive in the Middle East, away from their naturally protected habitats.
3. The total mass of on-board animals would have been some 400,000 kg, if only yearlings were taken, or some 5 million kg, if adults were taken. Either figure is far more than could be accommodated in the ark as described in the Bible and reconstructed in Kentucky.
4. The figures in the previous item do not include food and water for a one-year sojourn, which would multiply the weight by at least 10 times if not more. Further, many animals require special diets — silkworms require mulberry leaves, Pandas require bamboo, and snakes, for example, require fresh food. How could fresh food be provided for a full year?
5. How could large numbers of animals be protected from the many on-board predators, such as lions and tigers?

Yes, they have found whale bones in high mountain areas. Even the dinosaurs could have been made extinct from it. They may have been the dragons the bible talks about.

 

[TinMan]

5. Well the easy answer to five is that God stopped their predatory ways for the year. But ICR has many valid and researched theories on the why's. We will never have a definitive answer because there is no record of how they co-existed for a year.

Saying we can never know is not actually an answer.

1. they do not exist in the middle east now. but hey were all created in teh middle east so it is easy to say they stayed there. also the earth pre-flood was one land mass.

Evidence that it was landmass and then can you explain just how a flood would reshape and move continents?

2. YOu forget that the pre flood world was one land mass and all animals existed in that one land (science calls it pangaia) And that the earth was vastly different pre flood than post flood.

Pangea was a supercontinent that existed during the late Paleozoic and early Mesozoic eras 335 million years ago. It was formed when the previous continents Gondwana, Euramerica and Siberia came together.

3. YOu are making the erroneous assumption that two of each uniques species were taken aboard. That is not the case. What was boarded was two of each kind (two snake kind, two elephant kind, two dog kind, etc.) ICR also has an excellent paper discussing this. We know that one species can change to many other species through the work of Brother Gregor Mendel.

Exactly what is a "kind"

4. Once again this is most likely not the case. We see the traits of hibernation and estivation in so many many animals. So this would vastly reduce the need for food. Also special diets need not be a problem. Many animals can switch diets when their natural foods disappear. And we simply do not know what animals ate pre flood. They were all created vegetarians. Carnivore habits did not occur until some time after the fall.

Habits?

Also the earth itself bears witness to enormouc catastrophism which is answered by the Noahic flood.

how does the flood produce the KT boundary? (the worldwide iridium geological layer from the end of the Cretaceous period)

 

[TinMan]

Yes, they have found whale bones in high mountain areas. [

How old are these bones?

 

[dev553344]

How old are these bones?

I think there are various sightings of whale bones but here is one: Paleontologists discover a whale fossil on top of a mountain

But as far as the age of the skeleton, I wouldn't trust carbon dating for that. I watched a documentary that put huge holes in the carbon dating theory.