Is This the Beast?

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Jay Ross

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No time to read the other answers, but I believe the Beast will be the Islamic Caliphate, so whenever the Islamic nations or Islam in general starts gaining ascendancy in the earth, that's when I start watching.

Your POV with respect to this present time is, IMHO, correct with respect to the fourth beast of Daniel 7:1-12, and if we consider that the Little Horn will have influence over the fourth beast and it is the Little Horn that speaks pompous word about God.

In Daniel 8 it is the Little Horn that is given an army to trample the Sanctuary of God in Jerusalem and God's earthly Hosts for a period of 2,300 years. and the time of this trampling began when Jewish Scholars, around 250 BC began translating their Holy Books in the Greek language. Around 100 years later one of the four segments of the Greek Empire entered the temple to deface it and we have what we understand to be the Maccabee Revolt.

Around 100 years later the Roman Empire's army was under the influence of the Little Horn and Rome began trampling Jerusalem and God's Earthly Hosts and in 70 AD it resulted in the Temple being destroyed and many Jews being killed and captured to be sold into slavery to all the nations of the earth. In effect, this was the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and their children's children which is to last for a little over 2,000 years and it will end in around 25 years time when the kings of the earth will be gathered together at Armageddon where they will be Judged, at the same time that the wicked fallen heavenly hosts are judged with no place for them to be found in heaven, and they, the judged heavenly hosts, will be gathered together with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment. Isa 24:21-22. In the book of Revelation we are told that after one thousand years of being locked up in the Bottomless pit, that the pit will be unlocked and the kings of the earth will rise up out of the pit first, to be then followed by the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 to then have dominion over all of the people of the earth and these four beasts will be seen as a single entity. This combined beast will speak out blaspheme against God and by the encouragement of the Little Horn, now called the false prophet, the people will begin to worship the beast.

It is at this time that we will see the Anti-Christ, and the False Prophet and Satan try to wrestle away from God His saints, but to no effect.

@marks your question(s) show your biased ignorance as to when the prophetic words of God, given through the Prophets, are to happen because of your so called "literal" reading of the cookie cut scriptures that you read.

You asked me the question in response to my post,
How do you mean?
What I mean is that "Christians" today have a self righteousness attitude, and sense that God would not want them to be refined by "fire."

They look for a logical understanding as to what is happening at this present time, particularly in the USA, one of the heads at this present time of the third beast of Daniel 7:1-12, not understanding the sin that they have collectively committed against God and the punishment that is to come upon them for that sin and is happening at this very moment. The USA is going to be stripped bare of its wealth and effective powers with a nose ring through its nose to be lead with the other nations to Armageddon to be judged for its trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts.

As Christ States, "Let him who has ears to hear, hear, and him who has eyes to see, see."

Sadly, the many prophets today cannot hear or see, what has and is transpiring and there are many people who are following these blind and deaf "leaders" within Christian circles. Another mountain for us all to go around to experience the same lesson that we are not learning. That lesson is for us to put our trust in God alone and not in men who willingly tickle our ears with their "fancy" words.

Why is that so?

Because we do not read all of the scriptures and understand the storyline of the End times at all.

Shalom
 

JohnDB

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I know what hermeneutics is

I was more referring to the rest of your post. What was you trying to infer?

Just that when Jesus arrived before no one recognized him even though it was one of the most telegraphed events to hit Israel.
Now we have several writings and one complete book on the subject...
To think that conventional wisdom is going to get it correct is absurd. The modern view is the same as the conventional wisdom during Jesus' ministry tour. "Just a little while longer and the Messiah will be here".

And as far as how to translate Revelations accurately?
That would require more time than I have ever had. But rest assured the Mark of the Beast is clearly explained in the Old Testament.

I could tell you but then I would invoke your ire (and if not yours others most definitely.) But mostly it is not my place to do such things.
"Answers freely given are considered of no worth due to the price paid for them".
 

marks

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Allowing the scripture to interpret itself is a good start. Understanding the beast requires what it is in contrast to. We are dealing with the conflict of two opposing sides represented in different ways. There are two women; one in Revelation 12, one in Revelation 17.
One is clothed with light and purity the other a harlot in gaudy apparel. One represents God's people and the other the people opposed to God.

There are two cities also used as metaphor representing the same as the women.....Babylon and Jerusalem. The meanings of these give a clue. Babylon meaning confusion, Jerusalem, city of peace.

There are other metaphors used in scripture that mirror the same idea.....Egypt, land of slavery, Jerusalem...the promised land and so on.
Understanding this is pivotal because from here one can go further.
And two men, Adam, and Christ.

And the beast . . . what would you say the beast is contrasted to?

Much love!
 

marks

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What I mean is that "Christians" today have a self righteousness attitude, and sense that God would not want them to be refined by "fire."

You appear to have a very low opinion of the church.

@marks your question(s) show your biased ignorance as to when the prophetic words of God, given through the Prophets, are to happen because of your so called "literal" reading of the cookie cut scriptures that you read.

And you of course have a very low opinion of me. I've known that for some time. You've made that abundantly clear.

And you seem to think that broadcasting your negative opinions of God's people to be an OK thing to do.

Much love!
 

marks

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I could tell you but then I would invoke your ire (and if not yours others most definitely.) But mostly it is not my place to do such things.
"Answers freely given are considered of no worth due to the price paid for them".
As it happens, I'm wondering about your POV also.

Should you wish to share!

:)

Much love!
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Just that when Jesus arrived before no one recognized him even though it was one of the most telegraphed events to hit Israel.
Now we have several writings and one complete book on the subject...
To think that conventional wisdom is going to get it correct is absurd. The modern view is the same as the conventional wisdom during Jesus' ministry tour. "Just a little while longer and the Messiah will be here".

And as far as how to translate Revelations accurately?
That would require more time than I have ever had. But rest assured the Mark of the Beast is clearly explained in the Old Testament.

I could tell you but then I would invoke your ire (and if not yours others most definitely.) But mostly it is not my place to do such things.
"Answers freely given are considered of no worth due to the price paid for them".
All I ask is don’t say your way is right and everyone else’s is wrong, that in my view would cause issue

if you want to discuss it, I have no problem, even if in the end we disagrees I have studied this for many decades (it is one of my favorite subjects) but even then, I do not think I have all the answers, if I ever get there, then I need to be humbled, because when it comes to prophetic events, I do not think we will really know until they happen, but we can know by looking if they have happened or not (prophecy would have to be 100% fulfilled to be considered fulfilled in my view)

sadly these types of discussions do not get very far because we have prideful people on both sides who think they know it all and do not know how to humbly discuss the issue with people they disagree with.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Your POV with respect to this present time is, IMHO, correct with respect to the fourth beast of Daniel 7:1-12, and if we consider that the Little Horn will have influence over the fourth beast and it is the Little Horn that speaks pompous word about God.

In Daniel 8 it is the Little Horn that is given an army to trample the Sanctuary of God in Jerusalem and God's earthly Hosts for a period of 2,300 years. and the time of this trampling began when Jewish Scholars, around 250 BC began translating their Holy Books in the Greek language. Around 100 years later one of the four segments of the Greek Empire entered the temple to deface it and we have what we understand to be the Maccabee Revolt.

Around 100 years later the Roman Empire's army was under the influence of the Little Horn and Rome began trampling Jerusalem and God's Earthly Hosts and in 70 AD it resulted in the Temple being destroyed and many Jews being killed and captured to be sold into slavery to all the nations of the earth. In effect, this was the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and their children's children which is to last for a little over 2,000 years and it will end in around 25 years time when the kings of the earth will be gathered together at Armageddon where they will be Judged, at the same time that the wicked fallen heavenly hosts are judged with no place for them to be found in heaven, and they, the judged heavenly hosts, will be gathered together with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment. Isa 24:21-22. In the book of Revelation we are told that after one thousand years of being locked up in the Bottomless pit, that the pit will be unlocked and the kings of the earth will rise up out of the pit first, to be then followed by the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 to then have dominion over all of the people of the earth and these four beasts will be seen as a single entity. This combined beast will speak out blaspheme against God and by the encouragement of the Little Horn, now called the false prophet, the people will begin to worship the beast.

It is at this time that we will see the Anti-Christ, and the False Prophet and Satan try to wrestle away from God His saints, but to no effect.

@marks your question(s) show your biased ignorance as to when the prophetic words of God, given through the Prophets, are to happen because of your so called "literal" reading of the cookie cut scriptures that you read.

You asked me the question in response to my post,

What I mean is that "Christians" today have a self righteousness attitude, and sense that God would not want them to be refined by "fire."

They look for a logical understanding as to what is happening at this present time, particularly in the USA, one of the heads at this present time of the third beast of Daniel 7:1-12, not understanding the sin that they have collectively committed against God and the punishment that is to come upon them for that sin and is happening at this very moment. The USA is going to be stripped bare of its wealth and effective powers with a nose ring through its nose to be lead with the other nations to Armageddon to be judged for its trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts.

As Christ States, "Let him who has ears to hear, hear, and him who has eyes to see, see."

Sadly, the many prophets today cannot hear or see, what has and is transpiring and there are many people who are following these blind and deaf "leaders" within Christian circles. Another mountain for us all to go around to experience the same lesson that we are not learning. That lesson is for us to put our trust in God alone and not in men who willingly tickle our ears with their "fancy" words.

Why is that so?

Because we do not read all of the scriptures and understand the storyline of the End times at all.

Shalom
The USA is not even mentioned in scripture, so I doubt it will be here when the ten kingdom beast begins power,
 

Jay Ross

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You appear to have a very low opinion of the church.

That is like your opinion of the Bible.

And you of course have a very low opinion of me. I've known that for some time. You've made that abundantly clear.

And you seem to think that broadcasting your negative opinions of God's people to be an OK thing to do.

Much love!

Again that is your opinion. If you read the bible, even the prophets had a difficult time getting through to the fallen saints of their time. They did not want to listen to them either and they were put down by the people and some were even killed, because the people did not like the words they were given to say by God.

But when the people began to understand what their sin was and honestly repented of it, then God would respond to their honest repentance and deliver them from the evil that He had allowed to fall upon them because of their sins.

Marks, if I have such a low opinion of you, why would I spend my time trying to help you to understand the timeline of God's end times.

Shalom
 

marks

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The USA is not even mentioned in scripture, so I doubt it will be here when the ten kingdom beast begins power,
I think there is a tendency by some to pick out 10 current nations, and match these to the 10 kings. I wouldn't rule out the earth begin districted into 10 regions of a global empire.

Much love!
 
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Eternally Grateful

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I think there is a tendency by some to pick out 10 current nations, and match these to the 10 kings. I wouldn't rule out the earth begin districted into 10 regions of a global empire.

Much love!
I believe we should just interpret it as it is, it is part of the final form of the 4th beast, which is Rome, se if we are going to look at who the 10 kings are, that is where we should look, not halfway around the world Then again, we have people think the USA is the antichrist.. how they get that, I honestly do Not know
 

Jay Ross

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The USA is not even mentioned in scripture, so I doubt it will be here when the ten kingdom beast begins power,

That is your opinion, however, from my perspective, I have seen the three foul frog like spirits go out to the whole world to show their signs and wonders, to begin the drawing of the kings of the earth to Armageddon. The USA is not mentioned in this bowl judgement, but that is where the signs and wonders were performed and this event was broadcast around the world for all of the world to see.

In reading the Scriptures, I agree that the USA is not directly named, however, during the time that Israel began searching for the way to Mt Zion, i.e. over the last 100-150 years, the USA can be recognised as the country being described that leads many nations into Sin and the described consequences of that sin is what I am observing occurring in the USA now. My country will also suffer the same fate for our part in this sin, and I can see the signs already of the punishment overtaking my country. The same mechanisms are occurring and being played out just like they occurred in the USA..

I also agree with your finishing comment that in around 1,000 years into our respective future, that the USA and my country will not exist as it exists today, when the Bottomless pit is opened, after the 1,000 years have passed, and the caged entities there are released during the little while period before the Great White Throne Room Judgement begins.

Shalom
 
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marks

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I believe we should just interpret it as it is, it is part of the final form of the 4th beast, which is Rome, se if we are going to look at who the 10 kings are, that is where we should look, not halfway around the world Then again, we have people think the USA is the antichrist.. how they get that, I honestly do Not know
I think that people read the descriptions of Babylon, look at the USA, and make the connection based on the perceived similarities. Then that gets them USA-centric, I guess . . .

TBH . . . I don't know either!

I'm not set either way, whether 10 modern nations which will comprise a new "4th beast" empire, or, a "4th beast" empire which rules a world subdivided into these 10 kingdoms. What gets me looking that direction is that the beast will have power over all people, so I see a global governance.

Much love!
 

quietthinker

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And two men, Adam, and Christ.

And the beast . . . what would you say the beast is contrasted to?

Much love!
The rule of men as opposed to the rule of God. The beast has a number (also a metaphor)
 
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quietthinker

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might I add....these metaphors are often multi layered but not contradictory. If this is not understood, one spins off in a direction which results in confusion and confliction.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

I've noticed a number of people who are of the opinion that we are seeing the beast rising in the governments of today. Is that what you see?

I'm thinking that while oligarchs of today desire global rule, that a worldwide cataclysmic event will throw all of that into chaos, leaving the world's governments and economies in ruins. And out of those ruins something new will rise, the beast.

What do you think?

Much love!

Well before the antichrist rises to power the following things must take place:

1. The gog magog invasion of Ez. 38-39 (not to be confused with teh one in REvelation 20)
2. Th eone world govt.
3. the ten rulers governing the world.
4. The antichrist rising to power militarily and politically going out to conquer three of the ten kings.
 
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marks

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Marks, if I have such a low opinion of you,
And if you didn't, why would you write the way you do?

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.


That is like your opinion of the Bible.

Do you have any idea what an offence that is to me? Say whatever you want about me, my character, my whatever, but what gives you the right to denigrate my view of God's Word?

?
 

Eternally Grateful

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I think that people read the descriptions of Babylon, look at the USA, and make the connection based on the perceived similarities. Then that gets them USA-centric, I guess . . .

TBH . . . I don't know either!

I'm not set either way, whether 10 modern nations which will comprise a new "4th beast" empire, or, a "4th beast" empire which rules a world subdivided into these 10 kingdoms. What gets me looking that direction is that the beast will have power over all people, so I see a global governance.

Much love!
Yes he will, but I think it will be different, he will use finances and power to rule, which is different, your sec d one I have never heard of before, that’s an interesting take
 

Eternally Grateful

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That is your opinion, however, from my perspective, I have seen the three foul frog like spirits go out to the whole world to show their signs and wonders, to begin the drawing of the kings of the earth to Armageddon. The USA is not mentioned in this bowl judgement, but that is where the signs and wonders were performed and this event was broadcast around the world for all of the world to see.

In reading the Scriptures, I agree that the USA is directly named, however, during the time that Israel began searching for the way to Mt Zion, i.e. over the last 100-150 years, the USA can be recognised as the country being described that leads many nations into Sin and the described consequences of that sin is what I am observing occurring in the USA now. My country will also suffer the same fate for our part in this sin, and I can see the signs already of the punishment overtaking my country. The same mechanisms are occurring and being played out just like they occurred in the USA..

I also agree with your finishing comment that in around 1,000 years into our respective future, that the USA and my country will exist as it exists today, when the Bottomless pit is opened, after the 1,000 years have passed, and the caged entities there are released during the little while period before the Great White Throne Room Judgement begins.

Shalom
Once again, where do you see this? Are you saying you think the USA is Babylon? Babylon is the pagan institution which started at the Tower of Babel and saw its greatest power in the Roman Empire is still is alive today, the USA is just a country, and the world from my view hates the United States, they certainly will not cry when she is destroyed,

me personally I believe north and South America is the 1/3 destroyed by fire from heaven, and the US is taken out of the picture, restoring the world to the way it was. That’s why she is not mentioned
 

Eternally Grateful

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Well before the antichrist rises to power the following things must take place:

1. The gog magog invasion of Ez. 38-39 (not to be confused with teh one in REvelation 20)
2. Th eone world govt.
3. the ten rulers governing the world.
4. The antichrist rising to power militarily and politically going out to conquer three of the ten kings.
I see it differently

Number 4 is the beast or the feet of iron and clay

the beast takes over the ten rulers as they give him power, it does not say they rule the world yet, it just says they are part of the 4th beast (rome)

the one world government is created by the beast.
The first one I would have to do research, but I believe even that is after, I will look it up and get back to you