Is This the Beast?

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marks

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1....'Gog and Magog' are metaphor......these names are representative...the question is, of what?

@Ronald Nolette

From my study, Magog seems to refer to peoples who settled in the vicinity of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. But I'm not solid on that. Gog, on the other hand, seems strongly to me to be an angelic power, a prince, the same sort as the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece.

2....One World Government is an attempt not a reality....'they shall not cleave one to another'
I think so also. The attemps for unity will fail. At the end it will be a would-be world emperor, grasping at power, trying to finish off Israel.

That's a very interesting verse,

Daniel 2:43
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

What do you think this refers to, "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"?

3....'Ten' rulers are metaphor just as 'ten toes' are
4.... Turning metaphor into literal confuses the matter..... One looses it's intent or in the very least hamstrings (limits) it. There ya go, another metaphor!
What do you think it is a metaphor of?

Much love!
 

Jay Ross

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Um . . . it's a pre-wrath site, actually.

Okay, it may well be, but my experience of the site with the members that are left on it, is that it is fairly biased towards a Pre-trib point of view.

Many of the views expressed on that forum tend to express an imminent return of Christ in our near future.

Now can you explain what the predominate differences are between a pre-trib and a pre-wrath understand/theory is?

I though that the time of the tribulation and the wrath occur pretty much around the same time, within a couple of years of each other, in the sequence of what is to come.

Shalom
 

Heart2Soul

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Some conversations should be taken to a private conversation. Please don't use the forum to attack, demean, embarrass, shame or denigrate another member publicly.
Stick to the topic, leave out the personal issues between you and another member.
Thank you
God Bless
 
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quietthinker

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What do you think this refers to, "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"?
I think its saying that God is left out of the equation although an image or lip service is given
It also means a composite of the various philosophies of past kingdoms ( Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome) will be fundamental to the reality....even an implied reference to Gog and Magog.....which incidentally I think refers to all with a rebellious mindset. (the world)
.....again, the composite beast described in Revelation 13 points in this direction

3....'Ten' rulers are metaphor just as 'ten toes' are
4.... Turning metaphor into literal confuses the matter..... One looses it's intent or in the very least hamstrings (limits) it. There ya go, another metaphor!

What do you think it is a metaphor of?

The ten toes don't necessarily mean a literal ten although it's possible. I tend to think its a reference to the totality of governing humanity at that time.
 
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quietthinker

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Well you can call them a metaphor- The Bible says they will happen!
Ronald....identifying prophecy as metaphor does not mean there is no fulfilment.....it means a symbol, a type, a model having certain characteristics is used to represent the reality.

These prophecies are dealing with the roll of humanity on a global scale. It is not dealing with independent geographical locations or peoples.
The battle between good and evil.....the movement of history involves all.

an aside....The expression 'shinning as lights in a corrupt world' contrasts the mindset ie, the reality of God's people to the masses that traverse history.
 

Heart2Soul

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Disasters, earthquakes and anomalies are occurring like never before and they aren't being reported...
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Ronald....identifying prophecy as metaphor does not mean there is no fulfilment.....it means a symbol, a type, a model having certain characteristics is used to represent the reality.

These prophecies are dealing with the roll of humanity on a global scale. It is not dealing with independent geographical locations or peoples.
The battle between good and evil.....the movement of history involves all.

an aside....The expression 'shinning as lights in a corrupt world' contrasts the mindset ie, the reality of God's people to the masses that traverse history.

1. The bible explains teh symbols.

2. They predict global activities except where they don't.

3. It is a battle of good v. evil though the outcome has already been determinied.
 

kcnalp

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Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

I've noticed a number of people who are of the opinion that we are seeing the beast rising in the governments of today. Is that what you see?

I'm thinking that while oligarchs of today desire global rule, that a worldwide cataclysmic event will throw all of that into chaos, leaving the world's governments and economies in ruins. And out of those ruins something new will rise, the beast.

What do you think?

Much love!
Well, this past year has shown us how things can change dramatically is a very short time. World Government can happen in the blink of an eye!!!

Revelation 13:7 (NKJV)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
 

Heart2Soul

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Well, this past year has shown us how things can change dramatically is a very short time. World Government can happen in the blink of an eye!!!
Long before last year....I found a video of Walter Kronkite discussing world peace through world government....guess he was part of the secret society as well.
 
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Bobby Jo

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...
Daniel 2:43
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

What do you think this refers to, "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"?
...

First find the "significant", then maybe you can understand the "insignificant".

Who/what is the FIFTH "Divided Kingdom" empire of Clay?
 

kcnalp

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Revelation 13:7-8 (NKJV)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 

Davy

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Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

I've noticed a number of people who are of the opinion that we are seeing the beast rising in the governments of today. Is that what you see?

I'm thinking that while oligarchs of today desire global rule, that a worldwide cataclysmic event will throw all of that into chaos, leaving the world's governments and economies in ruins. And out of those ruins something new will rise, the beast.

What do you think?

Much love!

You're close, but not quite.

There's 2 beasts declared in Revelation 13. The first one is a kingdom beast over the whole earth involving ten kings, a system. It will be the coming "one world government" ruling structure under the 2nd beast, which is actually Satan ("dragon") himself as king over the whole earth for the tribulation.

Lord Jesus dropped this hint in Rev.13:4-8 for those with ears to hear (i.e., one given spiritual ears to understand).

Rev 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, 'Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?'


5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
KJV


We were told back in Rev.12 who the "dragon" is. It is another title for Satan himself. We are told that when the war in Heaven happens, he will be cast down to this earth with his angels. Associated with that timing are endtime tribulation events involving the saints of the 5th Seal.

This future casting down of Satan with his angels is not going to be like a ghost possessing men's flesh bodies. Satan and his angels are going to literally APPEAR upon this earth with the image of man, because he also has the image of man, as the angels do also. Those telling you he doesn't are lying to you, and speak for him instead of God. That dragon is not going to have horns, goatee, and a pitchfork either. God hinted in Ezekiel 28 that He made him the full pattern of beauty, Satan is a beautiful cherub. He is coming to play GOD on earth in the sight of men.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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That was nonsense, the Government body's were totally responsible for most of them fires, they had been warned for years by farmers in such areas who have lived in such places all their lives. no body could be so stupid to let the fuel load grow up like they let it and that was not the first time, the morons keep repeating this type of ignorance and get away with it all time after time. due to the greenies madness dictating over peoples lives.

Same with the floods people are totally ignorant, a mate of mine lived 60years on his property and the big rain was coming as it does at times, so he went down to inform all the new comers to bring all their cars etc up to his place and all, they just disregarded the locals just like the media does and the next day they were all wiped out.

I believe the fires were staged, I even seen from a chopper small spot fires all started beside the roads and them Koalas were planted their, sure Koalas right next to the road like that passive to humans C'mon !
It looked to me that they tossed some kola's out beside the road and lit the fires around them. I seen 3 fires from the chopper all the same size, about 2 city house block say in size and all 3 right beside the road, say about 300m apart, no other fire with in any range to be seen and I am sure that they must of been kicked off at the same time for sure. Ok the wind was heading away from that road and all 3 fires were on that side, now they could of dumped off the koala's turned around and set fire 1 off then 2 and then 3 then called in the chopper for the TV story. I have seen wild koalas move and they are bloody fast, you will be lucky to be able to catch one and if you do, get ready for that you will get bitten and scratched and pissed on because they are scared of humans in the wild and you will not see one walk up or by you.
 
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n2thelight

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Revelation 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

I've noticed a number of people who are of the opinion that we are seeing the beast rising in the governments of today. Is that what you see?

I'm thinking that while oligarchs of today desire global rule, that a worldwide cataclysmic event will throw all of that into chaos, leaving the world's governments and economies in ruins. And out of those ruins something new will rise, the beast.

What do you think?

Much love!

The first beast is the one world system that will fall a part to be healed by the dragon whom is the second beast , ie, satan himself pretending to be Christ
 

Jay Ross

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Hello,

Perhaps what is needed in this thread is a timeline for events that have and will occur from the time of the birth of Isaac, up and until the final judgement in Revelation, 20.

The birth of Isaac was God's confirmation of the Covenant that God had entered into Abraham and his descendants.

In the Abrahamic Covenant we are told that Abraham descendants will be scattered to the four corners of the earth and that at the end of the seventh age that the Remanent of Israel will be gathered once more.

In the Abrahamic Covenant we are told that Abraham's descendants will be given dominion over a prescribed area of land for a fixed period of time, to confirm that in the promised inheritance of the whole earth in the distant future from that time is true.

One hundred and seventy years after the birth of Isaac, Jacob take his family, the nation of Israel, down to Egypt for a period of 430 years after which God brings them out with the intent of taking Israel up to the Land known as the Promised Land, but because the Generation at that time of Israelites rebelled against God, God had Israel going around in circles for around 40 years.

After the death of Moses, God had Joshua, a tenth generations Israelite born in Egypt, to lead Israel into the Promised Land. Joshua lead the nation of Israel for around 30 years. His leadership began when he was 80 years old and ended with his death when he was 110 years old.

When the generation that had entered the Promised Land, had died, the people in the land, probably around 12 years after Joshua had died, did what was evil in the sight of God and we have the stories of three parallel rebellions within the tribes of Israel over a period of time that stretched over 220 or so years before Eli and then Samuel both judged Israel, each for a period of 40 years, before the people demanded to have a king over them and so Saul was anointed to be the king over all of the 12 tribes of Israel.

King David was born around 1,000 plus years after the birth of Israel.

480 years after God brought Israel out of Egypt, King Solomon laid the foundation stone for the Temple in Jerusalem, in the fourth year of his reign, that King David had want to build for God but God did not allow David to build the Temple in Jerusalem but gave that task to his son, Solomon. Around 18 year later, The Temple was dedicated and God's presence filled the temple, a significant time post for the Ezekiel, 47:1-12 prophecy.

The northern kingdom, Israel, the Assyrian Army came and took them into exile and they became scattered throughout the earth.

Because the nation of Israel did not keep God's commandments and did not allow the land to lie fallow every seven years, God took the Nation of Judah into exile in Babylon for 70 years.

While in Babylon, Daniel writes about what is to befall Israel and the rest of the world.

He introduces us to the demonic fallen Angels who are the "beasts" that causes their individual dominate characteristic to be come manifested within people groups and nations and empires. These four demonic fallen beastly angels have had influence over many people groups, nations and empires over time as the people ebbed and flowed in and out of the beasts respective influences and are still exercising this influence today.

Daniel indicates when the third beast manifests itself within the divided Grecian Empire after the death of Alexandra the Great, and in doing so also introduces us to another wicked fallen heavenly host called the Little Horn who is to trample God Sanctuary and He earthly hosts, Israel for a period of 2,300 years. Paul tells us in Romans, that at the completion of this 2,300 year prophesied time period of the Gentiles (trampling God’s Sanctuary and Earthly Hosts), that all of Israel will be saved.

The beginning of this prophecy started with the creation of the LXX at the request of the Grecian Empire centred in Alexandra, in Egypt around 250 BC. A somewhat innocent request, but one which began the trampling of both the Sanctuary of God and His earthly Hosts.

To be continued in post 81 below.