It's time to wake Judaism up and get them Grafted back in.

[pittsburghjoe]

Is the core difference between Judaism and Christianity, their definition of "The Messiah" and how many there should be?

The Angel Gabriel with the message of Daniel 9:25-26 didn't seem worthy enough for them to take note of?

The linchpin of Jewish excuses is the words "Messiah" and "Anointed".

Some like to claim "Messiah" can be a title to basically anyone that wants it.

"Someone anointed with oil by a Temple official, or other authority designated by G-d"
​

They use Isaiah 45:1 as an example:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Some claim Christians changed this use of "anointed" from "messiah" ...but that claim falls apart after looking at the dead sea scrolls: http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#45:1

So, let's compare Isaiah 45:1 to Daniel 9:25. At first, it looks like they have a point with "māšîaḥ" but if we look at the Masoretic Text we see a difference. Inflected versus Root.



"Messiah" and "Anointed" have the same Root. But Judaism has a problem because "Messiah" remains the same when Inflected. Isaiah 45:1 has someone that was "Anointed" ...not that the person was "Messiah" like in Daniel 9:25!

This alone is enough to say they can't clown with the word "Messiah" anymore, but then they like to bring up 1 Samuel 16:12-13 ...that's not even the same word. It is missing an important character.

They might realize how monumentally important Daniel 9 was.

 

[Truman]

Is the core difference between Judaism and Christianity, their definition of "The Messiah" and how many there should be?

The Angel Gabriel with the message of Daniel 9:25-26 didn't seem worthy enough for them to take note of?

The linchpin of Jewish excuses is the words "Messiah" and "Anointed".

Some like to claim "Messiah" can be a title to basically anyone that wants it.

"Someone anointed with oil by a Temple official, or other authority designated by G-d"
​

They use Isaiah 45:1 as an example:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Some claim Christians changed this use of "anointed" from "messiah" ...but that claim falls apart after looking at the dead sea scrolls: http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#45:1

So, let's compare Isaiah 45:1 to Daniel 9:25. At first, it looks like they have a point with "māšîaḥ" but if we look at the Masoretic Text we see a difference. Inflected versus Root.

View attachment 18434

"Messiah" and "Anointed" have the same Root. But Judaism has a problem because "Messiah" remains the same when Inflected. Isaiah 45:1 has someone that was "Anointed" ...not that the person was "Messiah" like in Daniel 9:25!

This alone is enough to say they can't clown with the word "Messiah" anymore, but then they like to bring up 1 Samuel 16:12-13 ...that's not even the same word. It is missing an important character.

I'm glad to see that you're concerned about the Jews. So am I. Shalom.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Just because "Messiah" and "Anointed" use the same root doesn't mean someone Anointed is automatically a Messiah.

If Jews understood this they wouldn't be Jewish anymore after looking at Daniel 9:25-26.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Curtis]

The old testament and new testament are full of prophecies about the Messiah setting up a kingdom on earth for forever. The Jews knew this and they were focusing on the fact that Messiah would set up an earthly kingdom and overthrow the Romans who had them in subjection , So that when Jesus did not set up a kingdom immediately and overthrow the Romans, most of the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

Even John the Baptist who had earlier proclaimed that Jesus is the Messiah, started to doubt that he was the true messiah to come when he was sitting in his jail cell wanting to be freed from it by Jesus after he overthrew the Romans and set up his kingdom.

This is why John sent his disciples to ask Jesus are you the one who was to come or should we expect another?

Even when Jesus was ready to ascend to heaven, the apostles asked him, are you going to set up your kingdom at this time? They were still puzzled why Jesus wasn’t doing that, they did not realize that there would be two comings of the Messiah - the first as the sacrificial lamb, the second coming as the lion of the tribe of Judah, to set up his kingdom on earth ruling from Jerusalem on the throne of David, forever.

So I would say that that is the reason why Jesus was rejected as the Messiah to the Jews.

Maranatha

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If מָשִׁיחַ (mâshîyach) directly sits before someone's role like "Prince" in Masoretic text or it is sitting by itself (Daniel 9:25-26), It has a Special Title (GOD'S Elect). Each only happen once in scripture because it is talking about The MESSIAH (The Anointed One/GOD'S Son).

 

[Bob Estey]

Is the core difference between Judaism and Christianity, their definition of "The Messiah" and how many there should be?

The Angel Gabriel with the message of Daniel 9:25-26 didn't seem worthy enough for them to take note of?

The linchpin of Jewish excuses is the words "Messiah" and "Anointed".

Some like to claim "Messiah" can be a title to basically anyone that wants it.

"Someone anointed with oil by a Temple official, or other authority designated by G-d"
​

They use Isaiah 45:1 as an example:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Some claim Christians changed this use of "anointed" from "messiah" ...but that claim falls apart after looking at the dead sea scrolls: http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#45:1

So, let's compare Isaiah 45:1 to Daniel 9:25. At first, it looks like they have a point with "māšîaḥ" but if we look at the Masoretic Text we see a difference. Inflected versus Root.

View attachment 18434

"Messiah" and "Anointed" have the same Root. But Judaism has a problem because "Messiah" remains the same when Inflected. Isaiah 45:1 has someone that was "Anointed" ...not that the person was "Messiah" like in Daniel 9:25!

This alone is enough to say they can't clown with the word "Messiah" anymore, but then they like to bring up 1 Samuel 16:12-13 ...that's not even the same word. It is missing an important character.

They might realize how monumentally important Daniel 9 was.

Does the Lord want to graft Judaism into Christianity?

 

[Stumpmaster]

Does the Lord want to graft Judaism into Christianity?

You nailed it.

 

[Curtis]

Does the Lord want to graft Judaism into Christianity?

Christianity is the fulfillment of OT Judaism, and gentile believers are grafted onto the Israel tree, as wild Olive branches grafted in with the natural branches, with Jesus being the roots of their tree, per Romans 11.

Thus the Jewish Messiah Jesus fulfilled the OT prophecies, and was cut off in death for the sins of many, and gave us the promised Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the House of Israel - this is why messianic Jewish Christians call themselves completed Jews.

The reason Jesus was rejected by most of Israel is because they were focused on the prophecy that Messiah would set up His earthly kingdom immediately after He came, and thus overthrow the Romans who were ruling over them, which Jesus didn’t do.

Maranatha

 

[Curtis]

You nailed it.

That’s actually backwards - Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism and of the prophecies given them , and the grafting that goes on is us gentiles being grafted into the Israel olive tree as wild Olive branches mixed in with the natural branches, per Romans 11.

Many messianic Jews call themselves fulfilled Jews instead of Christians, for that reason.

Maranatha

 

[Stumpmaster]

That’s actually backwards - Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism and of the prophecies given them , and the grafting that goes on is us gentiles being grafted into the Israel olive tree as wild Olive branches mixed in with the natural branches, per Romans 11.

Many messianic Jews call themselves fulfilled Jews instead of Christians, for that reason.

Maranatha

Depends how you define Judaism. The Judaisers were a thorn in Paul's side.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Isn't it God's job to save the Jews.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Daniel 9:24 says "to anoint the most Holy" and the next verse has מָשִׁיחַ (mâshîyach) directly before someone’s role which doesn't happen anywhere else in scripture, how is this not The MESSIAH (the most Holy Anointed)?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Is the actual MESSIAH the only one with a direct Anointed Title because He was the only one to live without sin in His Blood? Jews know The MESSIAH will be Anointed ...well, this is why.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Unblemished Lamb.

There is now a direct connection between Daniel 9:24-26 and Isaiah 53:7–10. Who was "cut off"?


Daniel 9:24-26
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.



Isaiah 53:7-10
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

[Truth7t7]

The old testament and new testament are full of prophecies about the Messiah setting up a kingdom on earth for forever. The Jews knew this and they were focusing on the fact that Messiah would set up an earthly kingdom and overthrow the Romans who had them in subjection , So that when Jesus did not set up a kingdom immediately and overthrow the Romans, most of the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

Even John the Baptist who had earlier proclaimed that Jesus is the Messiah, started to doubt that he was the true messiah to come when he was sitting in his jail cell wanting to be freed from it by Jesus after he overthrew the Romans and set up his kingdom.

This is why John sent his disciples to ask Jesus are you the one who was to come or should we expect another?

Even when Jesus was ready to ascend to heaven, the apostles asked him, are you going to set up your kingdom at this time? They were still puzzled why Jesus wasn’t doing that, they did not realize that there would be two comings of the Messiah - the first as the sacrificial lamb, the second coming as the lion of the tribe of Judah, to set up his kingdom on earth ruling from Jerusalem on the throne of David, forever.

So I would say that that is the reason why Jesus was rejected as the Messiah to the Jews.

Maranatha

Your claim a kingdom will be set up on this earth forever is in error, this existing earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in judgement at his return

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If JESUS became the Holy of Holies וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים (v’limshach Kodesh Kadashim), then the abomination of desolation is false religion/idols?

GOD'S Presence isn't going to be any new physical temple. Don't wait for one to get Right with GOD.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Why would the Holy of Holies (Kodesh Kadashim) need Anointed in Daniel 9:24 if it was talking about a physical Temple?
JESUS became GOD'S Presence on earth. Where Heaven and Earth overlap. Lamb of GOD, The Temple Sacrifice.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Daniel 9:24 says whoever it is talking about in the next two verses is equal to The Presence of GOD!!!!

וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים (v’limshach Kodesh Kadashim)

Daniel 9 :: King James Version (KJV)

 

[pittsburghjoe]

If the Holy of Holies is being Anointed for the first time (Daniel 9:24), does that mean a Living Person is representing the Holy of Holies in Daniel 9:25-26?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

To Anoint the Holy of Holies (Daniel 9:24), GOD'S Presence in Human Form, GOD'S SON ...The Anointed Prince in the next verse.

You can Anoint the things in The Holy of Holies inner room, but you can't Anoint The Holy of Holies Itself because it is GOD'S Presence. The SON of GOD, as GOD’S Presence as a Man on Earth, was Baptized and became Anointed.