Jesus didn't take away our sin, only our punishment

[marks]

So if the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, and 'world' means 'everybody whoever lived', then everybody whoever lived has had their sins, their guilt removed, and everybody whoever lived is saved.

Naturally you still would need to be born from above to be in relationship with God, and to therefore have eternal life.

Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

"If... and..." disqualifies it.
Yet it became a very common, poopular false teaching and false gospel.

So if the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, and 'world' means 'everybody whoever lived', then everybody whoever lived has had their sins, their guilt removed, and everybody whoever lived is saved.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Naturally you still would need to be born from above to be in relationship with God, and to therefore have eternal life.

Much love!

And I do not disagree with this at all. Yet, we must be born again before we can even see the kingdom of God[John 3:3]. And this new birth/being born again, is solely from God[John 1:13, Ephesians 1:19, 1 Peter 1:23, Ephesians 1:13, Romans 9:16, 1 Peter 1:3].

 

[Joseph77]

6 Bible verses about Scapegoat
(not a verified site, but just for the Scripture references) >
"
Isaiah 53:4
Verse Concepts
Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.

John 1:29
Verse Concepts
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:21
Verse Concepts
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Hebrews 9:11-14
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
how much more will

the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God,
cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

 

[SovereignGrace]

6 Bible verses about Scapegoat
(not a verified site, but just for the Scripture references) >
"
Isaiah 53:4
Verse Concepts
Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.

John 1:29
Verse Concepts
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

2 Corinthians 5:21
Verse Concepts
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Hebrews 9:11-14
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
how much more will

the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God,
cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

The scapegoat and even the goat in Exodus 12 symbolized the Christ when He was imputed our sins and became sin. Yet He will be forever the SINLESS, SPOTLESS, Lamb of God.

 

[marks]

Which is the temptation that faith will not overcome?

 

[Joseph77]

became sin

or more correctly, became sin offering.

Big difference.

 

[Joseph77]

Who said there is one ?

Which is the temptation that faith will not overcome?

 

[marks]

Who said there is one ?

I don't know. I wonder if some people think we have to sin.

Much love!

 

[SovereignGrace]

or more correctly, became sin offering.

Big difference.

But He was imputed our sins. Just as we were imputed Adam's sin, He was imputed our sins, and we are then imputed His righteousness.

When He was imputed our sins, it was as if He sinned, yet He never sinned once. When we were saved, we were imputed His righteousness, and all that He is. We stand before the Father as if we never sinned, as we have been imputed His righteousness. He became sin.

 

[Joseph77]

I don't know. I wonder if some people think we have to sin.

Everyone is consigned under sin.

God's Word cannot be changed.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Still waiting for proof of the posters here who allegedly stated what @CharismaticLady claims they said which became the title she used in this thread.

I've seen zero evidence of this in this thread (she claimed it's happening) or anywhere else on this forum. Looks like yet another 9th commandment violation. I'm pretty sure that shows someone isn't sinlessly perfect as has been claimed, over, and over, and over so we are all sure to take notice.

I don't think she is saying she is sinlessly perfect at all. But I think, if I am not mistaken, she tends toward the Arminian side of things, probably the Wesleyan flavour of it, such as the Nazarene Church teaches it - that a person can be entirely sanctified by faith, which as sinless perfection by faith as the extreme form of it. The problem with that is that every time a person succumbs to temptation, they have to go through the process of being entirely sanctified by faith all over again, time after time. That's why many Arminians have an up and down, almost bipolar type of Christian experience, where they are elated when things go right, and depressed when things don't. They are good fodder for Christian counsellors and keep them in business!

Apart from extreme OSAS, where a person can think they can sin with happy abandon and expect to remain saved, I do believe that the power and penalty for sin has been removed from us, but, as I previously posted, not the presence of sin, and our sanctification is progressive and developmental and will never be perfect until we meet the Lord face to face.

So, I think that she is declaring herself totally victorious over sin by faith because she is concentrating on the Scriptures that support her faith, and is not prepared that Paul, in Romans 7 is saying that he has ongoing struggles with his development of sanctification and depends on Christ that His grace is sufficient for him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't think she is saying she is sinlessly perfect at all. But I think, if I am not mistaken, she tends toward the Arminian side of things, probably the Wesleyan flavour of it, such as the Nazarene Church teaches it - that a person can be entirely sanctified by faith, which as sinless perfection by faith as the extreme form of it. The problem with that is that every time a person succumbs to temptation, they have to go through the process of being entirely sanctified by faith all over again, time after time. That's why many Arminians have an up and down, almost bipolar type of Christian experience, where they are elated when things go right, and depressed when things don't. They are good fodder for Christian counsellors and keep them in business!

Apart from extreme OSAS, where a person can think they can sin with happy abandon and expect to remain saved, I do believe that the power and penalty for sin has been removed from us, but, as I previously posted, not the presence of sin, and our sanctification is progressive and developmental and will never be perfect until we meet the Lord face to face.

So, I think that she is declaring herself totally victorious over sin by faith because she is concentrating on the Scriptures that support her faith, and is not prepared that Paul, in Romans 7 is saying that he has ongoing struggles with his development of sanctification and depends on Christ that His grace is sufficient for him.

She's said it before. When I called her out on it she said she no longer willfully sins. Like someone sins by having someone twisting their arm around their back or putting a knife to their throat. No one ever unwillfully sins.

 

[SovereignGrace]

or more correctly, became sin offering.

Big difference.

Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.[Isaiah 53:4-6]

Our sins were laid upon Him. He carried them to the cross and suffered in our place. He was reckoned*** a sinner, and had to die. The wages of sin is death, and if He was not reckoned*** a sinner, He could not have died, seeing The wages of sin in death[Romans 6:23a].

***to consider or regard

He was regarded as a sinner in His Father's sight, and God dealt with Him thusly.

 

[marks]

Everyone is consigned under sin.

God's Word cannot be changed.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Of course God will not change.

I think that some believe that even in Christ, there are some sins which we must commit. I don't think that is true.

I think there are occasions when we will commit sins, but that those occasions don't have to be often.

I think that Christians have been hearing for so long that, well, we're just always gonna sin! that we forget we don't have to.

Christ died to free us from sin. Be it to you according to your faith.



Much love!

 

[Joseph77]

This is true:

I think that Christians have been hearing for so long that, well, we're just always gonna sin! that we forget we don't have to.

=============================================================
This happens frequently daily on the forum, and in most places on earth:

I think there are occasions when we will commit sins, but that those occasions don't have to be often.

It has to, because of the conditions of society.
In the New Testament, there is testimony of those assemblies and such where it was different, with power in Christ, instead of a form without power like most places today.

 

[Taken]

Jesus didn't take away our sin, only our punishment
OP^


"Only" is to confined for me.

BY His Authority (through) His Blood, He Forgives our sin.

BY His Power (light) His LIGHT "covers" our sin.

Rom 4:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

A man's sin that is forgiven, and "Covered", is no longer subjected to the "punishment" for his Sin..."sort of"...
1) the man MUST still Bodily die.
2) the man "will not" be subject to The Lord Gods Wrath.
3) the man "will not" be Subject to Division or Separation "from" God.
4) the man "WILL" (BY the "POWER" of God), "Never Again", be Able to Sin Against God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I think there are occasions "when we will commit sins," but that those occasions don't have to be often.



Much love!

Disagree.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Brakelite]

I don't see the scapegoat as a type of Christ, more a picture of what happened. That Jesus died, and our sins were sent away.

Much love!

The Day of Atonement was a specifically organised and dedicated ritual to reveal a future truth as to how sin was to be eliminated from the universe... In fact, the DoA was the culmination of the Jewish yearly religious round of temple service. All the sacrifices throughout the year were representative of Christ. The sins of the repentant Israelites were transferred to the animal, sprinkled or smeared on the altar,and carried into the temple via the blood and 'written'upon the furniture therein. Thus the sins were recorded...a type of the books of heaven where are recorded all we do.
On the DoA there were two goats. Only one was sacrificed, but no sins were confessed upon it's head. Thus it's blood was clean. This is also representative of Christ, the clean spotless Lamb of God. On this occasion, in type, the clean blood was carried into the sanctuary, even the most holy place, and cleansed the sanctuary of all the sins of the children of Israel. (See Leviticus 16). The antitype of the DoA was prophesied in Daniel 8:14... Unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
After His ascension, Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary and as high priest ministered there. Then, after 2300 days/years entered the most holy place to begin a work of judgement... Cleansing the sanctuary... Of all the defilement His own blood carried ( our sins,) into heaven... And began a work of expunging the record of our sins from the books.
But what of the other goat? The scapegoat? On the DoA after the high priest had finished his work of atonement, the sins from the sanctuary had to go somewhere right? So they were placed upon the head of the scapegoat... Which represents Satan... And let off into the wilderness.
In the future the responsibility and accountability of sin will ultimately rest upon the devil. Not for just his own sin, but the part he played in temptation and evil of of others. If you want more detail and explanation...
Adobe Document Cloud

 

[CharismaticLady]

Go back a decade and see if you can find them.
It was clearly a false teaching...
The only thing I remember specifically is , when he was speaking himself, he said no one could receive power of a new life, nor be transformed, until after they died. There was more to it than that, but no reason to continue listening because it was so much wrong.

When I was married, my husband and I listened to a 6 cassette teaching of his on the gift of tongues. It was so funny, our mouths kept opening in astonishment at the same time for some of his outrageous beliefs.