Helen
Well-Known Member
- Oct 22, 2011
- 15,476
- 21,157
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Canada
Jesus never said he was God Almighty
- Thread starter APAK
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Nancy
Well-Known Member
APAK[/QUOTE]
Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!
Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).
John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!
Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!
Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!
Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Only God have the commandments only God can change them!
Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Only God has this power!
Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Only God!
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Only God can be this!
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Only God!
Duet 32:6
Matt 13:32 25:3-4
Lk 11:2
1 cor 15:24
Duet 6:4-5
Mk 12:29
1 Tim 2:5
Father
Jn 14:16-17
Jn 16:7-14
Acts 5:3-4
Acts 13:2-4
Acts 21:10-11
Son
Lk 1: 76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Jn 1
Jn 20:28
Jn 8:58
Acts 20:28
The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”
1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.
Jesus is God
Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.
John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."
John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.
2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”
Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?
John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."
Trinity
It wasn't dogmatically defined until later - but ABSOLUTELY taught in Scripture
(Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4)
Trinity
61 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
262 The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.
Jn 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. (Jesus is Lord)
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Jn 20:28 my Lord and my God!
Jesus declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31).
John the baptist prophet of the most high? Lk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Prepare the way of the Lord Lk 1:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
The Lord is Jesus and a Jesus is Lord, One God in three persons!
Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God almighty!
Matt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
They worshiped Jesus and only God can be worshiped!
Matt 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Only God have the commandments only God can change them!
Matthew 8:26
And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
Only God has this power!
Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Only God!
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Only God can be this!
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Only God!
Duet 32:6
Matt 13:32 25:3-4
Lk 11:2
1 cor 15:24
Duet 6:4-5
Mk 12:29
1 Tim 2:5
Father
Jn 14:16-17
Jn 16:7-14
Acts 5:3-4
Acts 13:2-4
Acts 21:10-11
Son
Lk 1: 76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Jn 1
Jn 20:28
Jn 8:58
Acts 20:28
The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”
1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.
Jesus is God
Isaiah 7:14
All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.
John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."
John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”
Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.
2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”
Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?
John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."
Trinity
It wasn't dogmatically defined until later - but ABSOLUTELY taught in Scripture
(Gen. 1:26, Matt. 28:19, John 15:26, 1 Cor. 12:4-6, 2 Cor. 13:14, 1 John 5:7, Eph. 4:6, Psalm 68:5, Mal. 2:10, Isa. 63:16, 2 Cor. 1:3-4, John 3:16, John 8:41, 1 Thess. 3:13, Isa. 7:14, Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 15:9, John 20:28, Acts 5:3-4, 2 Cor. 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Tit. 2:13, John 14:16-18, Luke 12:10, 2 Cor. 3:17, 2 Cor. 13:5, John 14:23, Acts 5:3-4)
Trinity
61 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
262 The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.
Cont.
263 The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn 14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn 15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed).
264 "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine, De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).
265 By the grace of Baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI, CPG § 9).
266 "Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).
267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
——-
He declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31). In Jewish theology the judgment of the world was a distinctively Divine, and not a Messianic, prerogative.
In the parable of the wicked husbandmen, He describes Himself as the son of the householder, while the Prophets, one and all, are represented as the servants (Matthew 21:33 sqq.).
He is the Lord of Angels, who execute His command (Matthew 24:31).
He approves the confession of Peter when he recognizes Him, not as Messias — a step long since taken by all the Apostles — but explicitly as the Son of God: and He declares the knowledge due to a special revelation from the Father (Matthew 16:16-17).
Finally, before Caiphas He not merely declares Himself to be the Messias, but in reply to a second and distinct question affirms His claim to be the Son of God. He is instantly declared by the high priest to be guilty of blasphemy, an offense which could not have been attached to the claim to be simply the Messias (Luke 22:66-71).
St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the Synoptists. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31). In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18). The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21). The oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38); and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21). In 10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of essence with the Father: "That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all . . . I and the Father are one." The words, "That which my Father hath given me," can, having regard to the context, have no other meaning than the Divine Name, possessed in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.
——
At the Council of Nicea (325 AD), the Second Person was declared to be consubstantial with the Father, where the term homo-ousios became the consecrated word for expressing perfect numerical identity of nature between the Father and His Son who became incarnate.
But Nicea did not settle the controversy. Speculators, especially in the Near East, insisted on probing and rationalizing the Trinity so that in 382 AD Pope St. Damasus called a council at Rome in which he summarized the main errors up to his time. Called the Tome of Damasus, this collection of anathemas is a series of definitions on the Trinity that to this day are models of clarity. Twenty-four in number, a sample from the collection again reflects the Church's perennial faith:
If anyone denies that the Father is eternal, that the Son is eternal, and that the Holy Spirit is eternal: he is a heretic.
If anyone says that the Son made flesh was not in heaven with the Father while He was on earth: he is a heretic.
If anyone denies that the Holy Spirit has all power and knows all things, and is everywhere, just as the Father and the Son: he is a heretic.
The most extensive declaration of the Church's teaching on the Trinity was made at the Eleventh Synod of Toledo in Spain (675 AD). It is a mosaic of texts drawn from all the preceding doctrines of the Church. Its purpose was to assemble as complete a list of doctrinal statements as possible, in view of the still prevalent errors in nominally Christian circles, and (providentially) in view of the rise of Islam which struck with particular vehemence against the Iberian peninsula. Since the main target of Moslem opposition to Christianity was the Koranic claim that Christians were idolaters because they adored Christ as God, it is instructive to see how the faithful were prepared to resist the Moslem Unitarianism by a clear declaration of their own belief in the Triune God. The full text of doctrine at Toledo runs to over two thousand words. Only a few lines will be given to illustrate the tone:
We confess and we believe that the holy and indescribable Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one only God in His nature, a single substance, a single nature, a single majesty and power.
We acknowledge Trinity in the distinction of persons; we profess Unity because of the nature or substance. The three are one, as a nature, that is, not as person. Nevertheless, these three persons are not to be considered separable, since we believe that no one of them existed or at any time effected anything before the other, after the other, or without the other.
Two general councils of the Church formulated the faith in the Trinity in specific creeds, namely the Fourth Lateran and the Council of Florence.
The focus of Fourth Lateran was twofold, to reaffirm the faith in the face of the Albigensian heresy and to defend it against the vagaries of Abbot Joachim.
Since the Albigenses were Manichaens, for whom there were two ultimate sources of the universe, one a good principle and the other an evil one, Lateran declared the absolute oneness of God, who is at the same time Triune:
We firmly believe and profess without qualification that there is only one true God, eternal, immense, unchangeable, incomprehensible, omnipotent, and indescribable, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; three persons but one essence and a substance or nature that is wholly simple.
The Father is from no one; the Son is from the Father only; and the Holy Spirit is from both the Father and the Son equally. God has no beginning; He always is, and always will be. The Father is the progenitor, the Son is the begotten, the Holy Spirit is proceeding. They are all one substance, equally great, equally all-powerful, equally eternal. They are the one and only principle of all things – Creator of all things visible and invisible, spiritual and corporeal, who, by His almighty power, from the very beginning of time has created both orders of creatures in the same way out of nothing, the spiritual or angelic worlds and the corporeal or visible universe.
263 The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn 14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn 15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed).
264 "The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine, De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).
265 By the grace of Baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI, CPG § 9).
266 "Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).
267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.
——-
He declares that He will come to be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31). In Jewish theology the judgment of the world was a distinctively Divine, and not a Messianic, prerogative.
In the parable of the wicked husbandmen, He describes Himself as the son of the householder, while the Prophets, one and all, are represented as the servants (Matthew 21:33 sqq.).
He is the Lord of Angels, who execute His command (Matthew 24:31).
He approves the confession of Peter when he recognizes Him, not as Messias — a step long since taken by all the Apostles — but explicitly as the Son of God: and He declares the knowledge due to a special revelation from the Father (Matthew 16:16-17).
Finally, before Caiphas He not merely declares Himself to be the Messias, but in reply to a second and distinct question affirms His claim to be the Son of God. He is instantly declared by the high priest to be guilty of blasphemy, an offense which could not have been attached to the claim to be simply the Messias (Luke 22:66-71).
St. John's testimony is yet more explicit than that of the Synoptists. He expressly asserts that the very purpose of his Gospel is to establish the Divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31). In the prologue he identifies Him with the Word, the only-begotten of the Father, Who from all eternity exists with God, Who is God (John 1:1-18). The immanence of the Son in the Father and of the Father in the Son is declared in Christ's words to St. Philip: "Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" (14:10), and in other passages no less explicit (14:7; 16:15; 17:21). The oneness of Their power and Their action is affirmed: "Whatever he [the Father] does, the Son also does in like manner" (5:19, cf. 10:38); and to the Son no less than to the Father belongs the Divine attribute of conferring life on whom He will (5:21). In 10:29, Christ expressly teaches His unity of essence with the Father: "That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all . . . I and the Father are one." The words, "That which my Father hath given me," can, having regard to the context, have no other meaning than the Divine Name, possessed in its fullness by the Son as by the Father.
——
At the Council of Nicea (325 AD), the Second Person was declared to be consubstantial with the Father, where the term homo-ousios became the consecrated word for expressing perfect numerical identity of nature between the Father and His Son who became incarnate.
But Nicea did not settle the controversy. Speculators, especially in the Near East, insisted on probing and rationalizing the Trinity so that in 382 AD Pope St. Damasus called a council at Rome in which he summarized the main errors up to his time. Called the Tome of Damasus, this collection of anathemas is a series of definitions on the Trinity that to this day are models of clarity. Twenty-four in number, a sample from the collection again reflects the Church's perennial faith:
If anyone denies that the Father is eternal, that the Son is eternal, and that the Holy Spirit is eternal: he is a heretic.
If anyone says that the Son made flesh was not in heaven with the Father while He was on earth: he is a heretic.
If anyone denies that the Holy Spirit has all power and knows all things, and is everywhere, just as the Father and the Son: he is a heretic.
The most extensive declaration of the Church's teaching on the Trinity was made at the Eleventh Synod of Toledo in Spain (675 AD). It is a mosaic of texts drawn from all the preceding doctrines of the Church. Its purpose was to assemble as complete a list of doctrinal statements as possible, in view of the still prevalent errors in nominally Christian circles, and (providentially) in view of the rise of Islam which struck with particular vehemence against the Iberian peninsula. Since the main target of Moslem opposition to Christianity was the Koranic claim that Christians were idolaters because they adored Christ as God, it is instructive to see how the faithful were prepared to resist the Moslem Unitarianism by a clear declaration of their own belief in the Triune God. The full text of doctrine at Toledo runs to over two thousand words. Only a few lines will be given to illustrate the tone:
We confess and we believe that the holy and indescribable Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one only God in His nature, a single substance, a single nature, a single majesty and power.
We acknowledge Trinity in the distinction of persons; we profess Unity because of the nature or substance. The three are one, as a nature, that is, not as person. Nevertheless, these three persons are not to be considered separable, since we believe that no one of them existed or at any time effected anything before the other, after the other, or without the other.
Two general councils of the Church formulated the faith in the Trinity in specific creeds, namely the Fourth Lateran and the Council of Florence.
The focus of Fourth Lateran was twofold, to reaffirm the faith in the face of the Albigensian heresy and to defend it against the vagaries of Abbot Joachim.
Since the Albigenses were Manichaens, for whom there were two ultimate sources of the universe, one a good principle and the other an evil one, Lateran declared the absolute oneness of God, who is at the same time Triune:
We firmly believe and profess without qualification that there is only one true God, eternal, immense, unchangeable, incomprehensible, omnipotent, and indescribable, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; three persons but one essence and a substance or nature that is wholly simple.
The Father is from no one; the Son is from the Father only; and the Holy Spirit is from both the Father and the Son equally. God has no beginning; He always is, and always will be. The Father is the progenitor, the Son is the begotten, the Holy Spirit is proceeding. They are all one substance, equally great, equally all-powerful, equally eternal. They are the one and only principle of all things – Creator of all things visible and invisible, spiritual and corporeal, who, by His almighty power, from the very beginning of time has created both orders of creatures in the same way out of nothing, the spiritual or angelic worlds and the corporeal or visible universe.
Jesus never said he was God Almighty
OP^
Disagree.
God said:
Isa 48:
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1
[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 22
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
OP^
Disagree.
God said:
Isa 48:
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1
[8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 22
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
You can disagree all day long although your facts (scripture without explanation) do not support your decision.
Isa 48:12 is all about YHWH, the Father of all creation- nothing to do with the Son, our Savior for us, from the Father.
Rev 1:1-2 Jesus is revealed or introduced by YHWH, the Father (not the Son), to the the angel to John. John then records the actual conversation. words (logos) of YHWH the Father given via the angel. He captures the report of Jesus and what he saw and heard in the spirit.
Rev 1:8 is the other book end and introduction ending of YHWH, the Father who was introduced in verse 1 (The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him). Jesus was never the author of the book. Jesus is revealed for sure, although the author and power behind it all was the Father. The Father is YHWH, the Lord God and the Almighty, not his Son. Why would the Son impersonate the Father in verse 1 and again in verse 8? They are two distinct (S)spirits and personalities.
Rev 22 is true, it is Jesus our Savior using the same idiom as his Father for the purpose of making it clear that Jesus is the only the founder and completer, and there is no other, of the Church and our human salvation (The beginning and the end, the first and the last for this specific purpose only). The Father on the other hand is symbolized by the same idiom for all creation and all power for everything including his son and his mission for our salvation. His has no limit in any way as the Son is limited. We must understand why Christ and the Father are symbolized using the same phrases, the same idiom used for DIFFERENT Reasons. They cannot be used interchangeably.
As in Rev 1 the Father is the B&E and the F & the L for all power being the Almighty - not for the Son.
Rev 22:21 last verse in the Bible....
It says that the grace of the Lord Jesus (The action of the Son who willingly volunteered to lay down his life for us on the cross for our salvation - that was his grace) BE WITH God's people. Amen. This is saying that those saved because of the Son's grace are truly YHWH's or the Father's people. A distinction again is made between the Son, Jesus Christ and the Almighty, YHWH, the Father.
It is impossible for the Son to be the Almighty as the Father YHWH! Cannot fuse them as the SAME (G)god....not happening
I hope this clears up a few things.
APAK
Last edited:
I think, notice how I said "I" think, that God is one and three at the same time.
How can this be?
How can He have always existed?
I believe that He is beyond our comprehension.
I believe that He is awesome beyond description...at least with our words.
How can this be?
How can He have always existed?
I believe that He is beyond our comprehension.
I believe that He is awesome beyond description...at least with our words.
Athanasius Creed!
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
I think, notice how I said "I" think, that God is one and three at the same time.
How can this be?
How can He have always existed?
I believe that He is beyond our comprehension.
I believe that He is awesome beyond description...at least with our words.
there are mysteries we can’t understand
Tom dick and harry:
All are men
All have the same nature
And are three distinct persons
Tom is not dick or Harry and so on
Athanasius Creed!
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
the apostles did
Acts 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I think, notice how I said "I" think, that God is one and three at the same time.
How can this be?
How can He have always existed?
I believe that He is beyond our comprehension.
I believe that He is awesome beyond description...at least with our words.
While I believe that God is all-knowing and we won't ever know everything about God, I disagree that God is beyond our comprehension. The scriptures were written down for us to know him and his ways, that we can understand him that we would learn to know him that we could exercise faith him and gain eternal life. John 17:3
Mankind can never hope to become equal to his Creator or understand all the workings of His mind. (Ro 11:33-36) But He can be found and approached, and He supplies his worshiper with all that is necessary for the worshiper’s welfare and happiness. (Ac 17:26, 27; Ps 145:16) We can comprehend God enough that we can learn to know him for the loving merciful and just person he is, that we can exercise faith in him and gain eternal life because of how much we love him
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Sometimes my mind goes so far in the direction of God's awesomeness that it feels like my brain cells are going to start snapping.
Then I refocus on what's in front of me. He showed me His love for me. Which reminds me that my heart has found it's home.
That He pays attention to me, that He likes me, that He's concerned about me. That He talks with me. He is my Father.
Then I know peace...and joy...and contentment. And renewal of my soul.
Then I refocus on what's in front of me. He showed me His love for me. Which reminds me that my heart has found it's home.
That He pays attention to me, that He likes me, that He's concerned about me. That He talks with me. He is my Father.
Then I know peace...and joy...and contentment. And renewal of my soul.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This is were trinitarians abandon:
- Logic
- Definition
- Language Usage
The Son of X is not X. Hunter is not Joe Biden. Absurd to suppose a man father's himself.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
First of all, I don't know what you mean by FACAGA. Second, I hope that the fact you have a question mark after the word love, you're not questioning love, when that has everything to do with God.
Jesus is the Christ, our Lord and Saviour.
Now Jesus is God with us, Emmanuel. so in this he is the only what that Man can come to understand the Father ? Because Bible points out that that no one can come to the Father but through his only begotten Son ?
Now all 3 are as one in the Trinity, so they are all as one but 3 distinct identity's in one and so this is how Jesus is the Christ our Lord and Saviour.
One can not go outside of Jesus Christ for worthy fruit as he is the Wellspring as far as Humans go.
Jesus Christ is the antidote for the Stain of original Sin and without this your Soul is cut off from true Grace of God.
The Blood of Jesus was sacrificed for us to understand that we are under this curse of Sin. one must understand this fact, that we can do nothing of our own will truly that is worthy of God, but only that of his will is worthy of God.
As far as Man is concerned Jesus Christ is God, he is Emmanuel The God with us. we need him or outside of this were are fooling ourselves.
The Jews back in the day were worshiping something that they did not know or understand truly, but Jesus apostles had faith that Jesus was the one Holy Moses pointed out that would come and it was not until Jesus Christ rose from the dead and went to Heaven that they truly understood who Jesus truly was.
Outside of Jesus Christ you have nothing of true value as to God the Father at all. as all 3 are testament as to the One. without the Holy Spirit you can not pickup and without Emmanuel 'God with us' you can not pickup to the Father.
Jesus Christ is not the Father and he clearly said that he is not the God of the dead, but he is the God of Life ? the wellspring their off for our Soul. he came so that you shall bear fruit, having Life in abundance ? with the Holy Spirit as one with the Father in Christ Jesus. one who is truly born again is Saved and is in the Kingdom of God and then you are sent out into the world to preach Jesus Christ among the wolfs. until the second coming when all the delusions will be burnt up and everyone will clearly see and comprehend that this world has so many delusions set to trap us in Sin. the works of Satan are abound in this world as Jesus pointed out that he is not of this World in fact, now the Jews back in the day were clearly caught up in this world, St Stephen pointed this out to them all and they killed him, but what did he see ? he went to Heaven !
Jesus only did the will of that of the Father in fact.
Now Carnal man does not like such things as God, as we like to make our own gods history proves and I get many making claims that Christianity is just on the same trip as other religions that they have seen in Asia with Idols and such nonsense, the fools pick up on such when they go to such places and demand that that's what it's all about and when I point out that true Christianity it's not about such nonsense at all, they think that I am joking, because they have seen so called Christians peddling such types of nonsense as well, yes I know that they do but they are idiots who are under delusions.
They claim that Christians are into - I just can't think of the word right now.
Now Carnal man does not like such things as God, as we like to make our own gods history proves and I get many making claims that Christianity is just on the same trip as other religions that they have seen in Asia with Idols and such nonsense, the fools pick up on such when they go to such places and demand that that's what it's all about and when I point out that true Christianity it's not about such nonsense at all, they think that I am joking, because they have seen so called Christians peddling such types of nonsense as well, yes I know that they do but they are idiots who are under delusions.
They claim that Christians are into - I just can't think of the word right now.
Yes, Jesus is the Son, our Savior and did the will of his Father, who is also our Father.
- Status
Similar threads
