Jesus's state of being before he was born into mankind

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teamventure

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i find it fascinating that our Lord had a body before he was born as Jesus.
i'm learning that his name Jehova means pre incarnate Christ.
the part that boggles my mind is Jehova having a body before he was
born into mankind with an earthly body. it's fascinating because when
Jesus was born what happened to his body as Jehova?? like when
Moses saw the tip of Jehovas rhobe, was he in a physical body that
you can touch, and if so what happened to it when he was born from
Mary?

thoughts? verses?

common. doesn't anyone else find this fascinating?
 

aspen

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where are you learning this? The LDS?
 

Rach1370

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It's funny...I was just thinking about this very question only a moment ago! We know Jesus was born into a male body...and we know after His resurrection He had a perfected body, no longer vulnerable to sickness or death...and that He even now has that perfect body.
But does the bible talk about how he 'dwelt' before His incarnation? We know that He made appearances in the OT...but so do angels, who we are told are also spirit beings. Its entirely possible Jesus was just Spirit...as is God and The Spirit, before His incarnation...
Teamventure...can you go into more detail? Where does it show Jesus dwelling in a different body? And yes...it is fascinating! Pretty much anything to do with God is!!
 

JLB

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Jehovah?

Look up these 2 words in Hebrew.

Strongs # 3050 - Yah

Strongs # 1943 hovah


YHWH has no vowels. Don't add any!


Or you come up with something that is perverse!
 

veteran

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It's funny...I was just thinking about this very question only a moment ago! We know Jesus was born into a male body...and we know after His resurrection He had a perfected body, no longer vulnerable to sickness or death...and that He even now has that perfect body.
But does the bible talk about how he 'dwelt' before His incarnation? We know that He made appearances in the OT...but so do angels, who we are told are also spirit beings. Its entirely possible Jesus was just Spirit...as is God and The Spirit, before His incarnation...
Teamventure...can you go into more detail? Where does it show Jesus dwelling in a different body? And yes...it is fascinating! Pretty much anything to do with God is!!

Different dimensions folks, dimensions.

One of the 'three men' that appeared to Abraham at his tent door per Genesis 18 was our Lord Jesus. Two of those three went into Sodom and Gomorrah to get Lot. There's several obvious clues given there as to Who was in Abraham's direct presence.


Gen 18:1-8
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

No question about it, Christ The LORD appeared directly in Abraham's presence. "LORD" there is Yehovah in the manuscripts.

Our LORD appeared as one of the 'three men'. Abraham prepared food and drink for them and they did eat, just like our Lord Jesus did after His Resurrection.



Gen 18:9-16
9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
(KJV)

Sarah laughed at what The LORD said to Abraham in his tent about her having a child, and He called her on it; showed a bit of doubt on her part, yet the matter reads like a normal family conversation and rebuttal between a Father and His children. Then The LORD and the other two men rose up to go to Sodom and Gomorrah.



Gen 18:16-21
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
(KJV)


So they're on the way to Sodom and Gomorrah? No, wait a minute...

Gen 18:22-23
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
(KJV)

That means Abraham was able to approach The LORD, but how? Because The LORD was standing right there next to Abraham. He revealed Himself as one of the "three men" which Abraham saw at his tent door. So now, The LORD is still there with Abraham while the two angels go to Sodom and Gomorrah to bring Lot and his family out. Abraham pleads with Him to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if at least ten righteous are found there. Then The LORD departs from Abraham's camp.


Gen 18:33
33 And the LORD went His way, as soon as He had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
(KJV)

And the very next event...


Gen 19:1-2
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
(KJV)

The phrase "my lords" Lot called the two angels is Hebrew 'adown', not 'Yehovah'.


Pretty amazing, huh? How is it that you all missed reading that from The Old Testament?
 

Rach1370

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Different dimensions folks, dimensions.

One of the 'three men' that appeared to Abraham at his tent door per Genesis 18 was our Lord Jesus. Two of those three went into Sodom and Gomorrah to get Lot. There's several obvious clues given there as to Who was in Abraham's direct presence.

...

Pretty amazing, huh? How is it that you all missed reading that from The Old Testament?

Yeah, I'm fully aware of Jesus showing up in the OT, especially there with Abraham! And yes...totally cool! But I'm wondering if when He 'appeared' if that was the form He was in during eternity past, or if it was just the one He took to be seen by Abraham. We know the angels are spirit beings, but when they appeared to people on earth as messengers, they were seen as people...beings with physical form. So I wonder if Jesus was spirit in eternity past, taking 'a' form during those OT appearances, but then taking on flesh and form during the incarnation...a form that was perfected in the resurrection and He still has now. Just wondering, is all, if the Bible has anything to say on it, or if it's something we don't really need to know...all we really need to know was that Jesus was there, He is God, etc.
 

veteran

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Yeah, I'm fully aware of Jesus showing up in the OT, especially there with Abraham! And yes...totally cool! But I'm wondering if when He 'appeared' if that was the form He was in during eternity past, or if it was just the one He took to be seen by Abraham. We know the angels are spirit beings, but when they appeared to people on earth as messengers, they were seen as people...beings with physical form. So I wonder if Jesus was spirit in eternity past, taking 'a' form during those OT appearances, but then taking on flesh and form during the incarnation...a form that was perfected in the resurrection and He still has now. Just wondering, is all, if the Bible has anything to say on it, or if it's something we don't really need to know...all we really need to know was that Jesus was there, He is God, etc.

Examples like that are given so we would understand, but the reason we make it difficult is because of all the lies the world tells us about the manifesting of ghosts and gobbilins. The heavenly is simply a different dimension, and that's all. There's only two God's Word reveals, this earthly we live in, and the heavenly. Apostle Paul understood it well, and he explained it, yet many can't get past the world's conditioning about it which is designed to cause fear. Just as God put in our flesh a natural desire for its self-preservation, it has a natural fear of that other dimension, which is a good thing in a sense, because God doesn't want us to mess around with trying to penetrate the heavenly dimension at will. He set bounds for this present flesh world for a reason, yet the occultists who serve the devil think to penetrate that realm anyway against His will and gain influence they should not have, and thus His commandments against the sorcerers, necromancers, witchcraft, etc.

We know per God's Word that He allows some to 'see' into that other dimension for His Purposes, even with those like 2 Cor.12 that was caught up to the third heaven and lived to tell about it. In Isaiah 6, Isaiah thought he had died when he was allowed to see God upon His throne in the heavenly dimension. Apostle John was given Revelation from being in the Spirit. Ezekiel was allowed visions and even physically transported to different locations on the earth in order to be shown visions. He even saw God's chariot in Ezekiel 1.

Apostle Paul declared that there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body in 1 Cor.15. He also said as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. So which dimension existence is actually the more real, our flesh existence of today, or the spiritual body existence of the world to come? When God said He created the earth to be inhabited in Isa.45, did He mean that for this present flesh existence, or especially for the eternal existence to come?

When our LORD (Christ) and the two angels appeared to Abraham with the image of man, they didn't have to change form or do some shape-shift thing. Abraham was simply allowed to 'see'. Likewise with our Lord Jesus after His Resurrection, His disciples were allowed to 'see' Him in His Heavenly Body. An angel could walk around the corner and greet you, come in and dine with you and you'd never know it was an angel (Heb.13:2). But if he suddenly appeared and disappeared in front of you out of nowhere, then you'd know for sure. That's what our Lord Jesus did with His disciples after His Resurrection. And it's the same kind of thing that He did with Abraham with suddenly appearing at Abraham's tent door, with Abraham knowing it was Him.

The heavenly order existence is the more real type, because it's eternal. It's obvious The LORD wants us to realize that too. Because of today's flesh existence there's a veil of separation between this dimension and the heavenly dimension. When Jesus returns that veil is going to be removed, and then all will 'see', because we all will be changed or resurrected to that heavenly dimension. God set boundaries so we in the flesh are not supposed to pass into the heavenly dimension, which is why those in Old Testament times would say that no one saw God and lived. Yet we know per His Word that He allows some to 'see' into it and even experience it. The physics behind that is our 'spirit' which He also created which is within our flesh body, and which goes back to Him after death of the flesh (Eccl.12:5-7).
 

Rach1370

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Examples like that are given so we would understand, but the reason we make it difficult is because of all the lies the world tells us about the manifesting of ghosts and gobbilins. The heavenly is simply a different dimension, and that's all. There's only two God's Word reveals, this earthly we live in, and the heavenly. Apostle Paul understood it well, and he explained it, yet many can't get past the world's conditioning about it which is designed to cause fear. Just as God put in our flesh a natural desire for its self-preservation, it has a natural fear of that other dimension, which is a good thing in a sense, because God doesn't want us to mess around with trying to penetrate the heavenly dimension at will. He set bounds for this present flesh world for a reason, yet the occultists who serve the devil think to penetrate that realm anyway against His will and gain influence they should not have, and thus His commandments against the sorcerers, necromancers, witchcraft, etc.

Okay...my question really had nothing to do with ghosts and goblins. In fact, if we're going to get into it, this generation is probably the least superstitious yet! It all about what we can see and prove...and that generally doesn't cover ghosts and gobblins.
I understand very well that there are 'two' realities, a physical world and a spirit world, earth and heaven. I have no fear of this, it doesn't go against my beliefs or understanding of what is possible.


We know per God's Word that He allows some to 'see' into that other dimension for His Purposes, even with those like 2 Cor.12 that was caught up to the third heaven and lived to tell about it. In Isaiah 6, Isaiah thought he had died when he was allowed to see God upon His throne in the heavenly dimension. Apostle John was given Revelation from being in the Spirit. Ezekiel was allowed visions and even physically transported to different locations on the earth in order to be shown visions. He even saw God's chariot in Ezekiel 1.

Apostle Paul declared that there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body in 1 Cor.15. He also said as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. So which dimension existence is actually the more real, our flesh existence of today, or the spiritual body existence of the world to come? When God said He created the earth to be inhabited in Isa.45, did He mean that for this present flesh existence, or especially for the eternal existence to come?

When our LORD (Christ) and the two angels appeared to Abraham with the image of man, they didn't have to change form or do some shape-shift thing. Abraham was simply allowed to 'see'. Likewise with our Lord Jesus after His Resurrection, His disciples were allowed to 'see' Him in His Heavenly Body. An angel could walk around the corner and greet you, come in and dine with you and you'd never know it was an angel (Heb.13:2). But if he suddenly appeared and disappeared in front of you out of nowhere, then you'd know for sure. That's what our Lord Jesus did with His disciples after His Resurrection. And it's the same kind of thing that He did with Abraham with suddenly appearing at Abraham's tent door, with Abraham knowing it was Him.

The heavenly order existence is the more real type, because it's eternal. It's obvious The LORD wants us to realize that too. Because of today's flesh existence there's a veil of separation between this dimension and the heavenly dimension. When Jesus returns that veil is going to be removed, and then all will 'see', because we all will be changed or resurrected to that heavenly dimension. God set boundaries so we in the flesh are not supposed to pass into the heavenly dimension, which is why those in Old Testament times would say that no one saw God and lived. Yet we know per His Word that He allows some to 'see' into it and even experience it. The physics behind that is our 'spirit' which He also created which is within our flesh body, and which goes back to Him after death of the flesh (Eccl.12:5-7).

Okay. So, you're saying that when Jesus appeared it was more a case of us seeing into the spirit world, rather than Him 'coming' to visit this one. Alright, that makes sense. But it still makes me wonder what 'form' Jesus had. He appeared to have human form, like a man. Is that how He always looked, even though He was 'spirit'? I don't think it really matters, but it's kinda interesting!
 

veteran

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Okay...my question really had nothing to do with ghosts and goblins. In fact, if we're going to get into it, this generation is probably the least superstitious yet! It all about what we can see and prove...and that generally doesn't cover ghosts and gobblins.
I understand very well that there are 'two' realities, a physical world and a spirit world, earth and heaven. I have no fear of this, it doesn't go against my beliefs or understanding of what is possible.

The reason I mentioned the idea of ghosts and gobblins is because of how that influence of the world causes many to not even want... to understand about the heavenly from the Biblical perspective.


Okay. So, you're saying that when Jesus appeared it was more a case of us seeing into the spirit world, rather than Him 'coming' to visit this one. Alright, that makes sense.

Well yes... and a little bit of no. It is about His allowing flesh man to 'see' that realm, no mistake about that (Isa.6). But He also 'comes'... to visit also, which is what He did in Gen.18 with appearing at Abraham's tent door, and what the two angels did in Gen.19 in Sodom and Gomorrah, for even the sodomites saw the two angels as 'men'. In John 21 at the sea of Tiberias, our Lord Jesus revealed Himself after His Resurrection upon the sea shore cooking fish and bread. If you can receive it, His Heavenly Body was still... in the Heavenly dimension while upon the earth. It's simply that He allowed His disciples to 'see' Him.

It's the same way with angels that appear on the earth. They're not in a flesh body like ours, but still in... the heavenly dimension, but upon the earth. It's like there's another dimension of existence superimposed upon the earthy dimension, so that both can occupy the same space. An angel suddenly appears, and then disappears, so did the angel leave just because it disappeared before our eyes? Not necessarily. 2 Kings 6 is a major lesson on that, as Elisha's servant couldn't 'see' the army of angels present to do battle until Elisha prayed that God would allow him to 'see'.

All... of those type Bible examples are so that we might come to understand the difference between the earthy and the heavenly. But it's a subject that scares a lot of people, especially those who listen to the world's confusion about it. So for that reason, it's not a popular topic at Church. Most people are comfortable with their flesh, so they don't like to think about things like the heavenly state, which they mostly associate with death and not Eternal Life through Jesus Christ. The heavenly is mostly unknown to them, so their flesh makes them have a natural fear of it. If they only knew that by overcoming the flesh's pulling against understanding that, then they'd begin to grasp what our Lord meant that His Truth will make us 'free', i.e., free of the ideas and things of this world.


But it still makes me wonder what 'form' Jesus had. He appeared to have human form, like a man. Is that how He always looked, even though He was 'spirit'? I don't think it really matters, but it's kinda interesting!

Genesis 18 told us what form He had. He had the 'image of man', for the "three men" Abraham saw included our Lord Jesus Christ. It is... how He has always looked.

How many interpret the word 'man' and its image is most often according to the views of this world, and not according to Holy Writ. In Genesis 1:26-27 God revealed that He created flesh man with His Own LIKENESS.

Gen 1:26
26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(KJV)

What image and likeness is that? The image and likeness of The Heavenly Man (Christ). When God's Word included an image likeness that angels appeared with on earth, it was always that of the image of man. That image likeness of man began in the Heavenly from God's Own Image, not... in the flesh.
 

JLB

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Matthew 17:1-3

1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Exodus 24:15-18

15 Then Moses went up into the mountain, and a cloud covered the mountain. 16 Now the glory of the Lord rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. And on the seventh day He called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud. 17 The sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18 So Moses went into the midst of the cloud and went up into the mountain. And Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights.

2 Kings 2:11-12

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!" So he saw him no more...


I believe these to be the same event from different times (natural) and perspectives.


Just my opinion.


Thanks, JLB