John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!

[GEN2REV]

Why is the standard not simply more likely than not? You have not proved beyond ALL DOUBT your position. LOL

Exactly.

In other words, "NOTHING you say will ever convince me I am wrong."

:)
Gotta love 'em!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And only the Father is God.

Poor Jesus who did not correct Thomas when Thomas called him God.

Jesus must have forgot to get the memo that he was not God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not possible since the trinity is not in the Bible. Just what verse do you claim is the
preincarnate Jesus speaking in any capacity?

Also, what is the significance of using form of the word God?

This is why I do not wish to discuss this with you. No content only blind baseless accusation. You just ignored half the passages I gave you then want to question me..

no thanks man

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why is the standard not simply more likely than not? You have not proved beyond ALL DOUBT your position. LOL

Yet it is you all who can not answer my questions and keep ignoring them..lol

It’s ok, I expect that from you all. Have yet to meet more than one of you who even attempt to answer my questions without me pushing for an answer

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly.

In other words, "NOTHING you say will ever convince me I am wrong."

:)
Gotta love 'em!

Oh you can, you just have not yet

I guess you do not have that attitude yourself? Hypocrite much?

 

[Amazed@grace]

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which, translated, simply means YOU refuse to accept it.

Or maybe you have failed to prove your point?


Verse?

If you're referring to Isaiah 48:12-16, your own verse supports my very point.

Slow down long enough to take a breath and LOOK at what it says. It is GOD speaking. He is calling HIMSELF the 1st and the Last. He wraps it up with saying HE was sent by God and the Spirit - referring to HIMSELF in the flesh, meaning JESUS.[/QUOTE]

Lol

so Jesus and Jesus sent himself?

come on man you will have to try harder than that

Just as I thought, nothing of value here

 

[GEN2REV]

Yet it is you all who can not answer my questions and keep ignoring them..lol

It’s ok, I expect that from you all. Have yet to meet more than one of you who even attempt to answer my questions without me pushing for an answer

I think you missed my answer to your question in post #101 and I answered EACH of your other questions one after another prior to that. You just didn't LIKE my answers which were directly from scripture.

You have a nasty demeanor and a childishness about you that makes me feel like being unkind so I'm going to refrain and leave you in God's hands. Figure it out or don't.

God bless.

 

[GEN2REV]

"You will know them by their fruit..."
(Matthew 7:15-20)
"There must be divisions among us in demeanor and words that we may know who belongs to God."
(1 Corinthians 11:19)

 

[amadeus]

Actually i mentioned genesis where god (plural) created the heavens and the earth,

There and in some other places it indeed speaks in a plural but plural means two or more, which could easily be more than three. In John chapter 17 it speaks of a plural in such a way that God could easily be seen as more than three if we were going for the plural.

I don't believe in such a multiplicity either. I simply see no reason to embrace a Trinity. Is it written anywhere in scripture that we must embrace a Trinity or a Duality or a Multiplicity?

i also mentioned Is 48 where the God of Israel said he was sent by the father and the spirit,

I also asked who Jesus prayed to himself? (John 17) and who the father was going to send in his name (John 14]

I would expect people with knowledge of the word to know what passages I spoke of. and not be so quick to claim I never mentioned any of the word

Sorry if you mentioned those verses in prior posts. I was only speaking of the one post. I did not read through the whole thread so perhaps that was my bad.

 

[Wrangler]

Yet it is you all who can not answer my questions

Not an answer to my question, showing how weak your position is.

Why is the standard not simply more likely than not? You have not proved beyond ALL DOUBT your position. LOL

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

This verse, and most of the first chapter of John’s Gospel, it is “The Word”, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the subject under consideration.

In verse 1, John says of the Word, that He was “in the beginning”. This “beginning” is not the same as Genesis 1:1, “in the beginning God Created…”, which is the beginning of the Creation of the universe. In verse 3 John speaks of Creation, “All things were made by him”. Verse 1 is eternity past, the eternal existence of God the Word.

John then says that “the Word was with God”. Better in the Greek, “καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν”. Here we have “ὁ λόγος” (the Word), Who is the Lord Jesus Christ. We also now have “τὸν θεόν”, literally “the God”, which contextually, as seen from verse 18, is God the Father. John here uses the Greek preposition, “πρὸς”, which shows a distinction between, “ὁ λόγος”, and “τὸν θεόν”, as this preposition has the meaning of, “face to face with”, “in the presence of”. Quite impossible for “ὁ λόγος” and “τὸν θεόν”, being on and the same Person. Here we have the teaching of the “UniPersonal” God of the Bible. This destroys any idea of “Unitarianism”, and shows that, with the Holy Spirit, that the only correct understanding of the Godhead, is Trinitarian.

After stating the eternal existence of “ὁ λόγος”, and His distinction from “τὸν θεόν”, here. John goes on to say of “ὁ λόγος”, “καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος”. Literally in English, “and God was the Word”. However, as “ὁ λόγος”, is the subject, the correct way to render the Greek in English, is, “and the Word was God”. As we have it in John 4:24, “πνεῦμα ὁ θεὸς”, where the literal English is, “spirit the God”, but here “θεὸς” is the subject, so the correct English would be, “God is spirit”.

John 8:54; "ο πατηρ μου ο δοξαζων με ον υμεις λεγετε οτι θεος υμων εστιν", My Father Who glorifies Me, whom you say is your God

Galatians 1:1; “διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ θεοῦ πατρὸς”, by Jesus Christ and God the Father

Here we have θεος used for the Father, and in both cases the Greek article is not used, but it is never translated as "god", or "a god"!

Interestingly, the Jehovah's Witnesses also produced the Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson. In the 1864 edition, John 1:1 in the right-hand text reads, “and the Logos was God”. Of this reading they say, “The column on the right hand side of the page is a New Version for general reading. This rendering is based upon that in the left hand Column, and the labors of many talented Critics and Translators of the Scriptures” (Preface, Plan of the Work). They reproduced this work in 1942, with the same reading.

In the Unitarian New Testament by Dr George Noyes, he translates from the Greek:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Here we read that there are TWO Who are called "God". "The Word" (ὁ λόγος), and "The God" (τὸν θεόν), WITH Whom He was!

Yet there are some who continue to reject what the Bible actually Teaches, and promote their heresies.

 

[Robert Gwin]

John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2- He was in the beginning with God;
3- all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Now Trinitarians have Triune Tunnel Vision, focusing only only the "with"!

Do you have to explain "WITH" according to the English language, throwing in Church Lingo?
Moses was referred to as God, the angel to Gideon is referred to as God- so we have in biblical language the fact that people representing God are referred to as such.

The Bible speaks of God creating all things THROUGH Jesus- according to the English language, or do we have to throw in Church Lingo, to make the dogma 'make sense'?

The problem is in the translation sir. The translators were not ignorant, it was deliberately manipulated to Deify Jesus. All versions which state it the way you posted it, add an a and do not capitalize the g at Acts 28:6 which was translated under the same rules of translation. There are other scriptures that show that they clearly knew how to translate it correctly as well.

You are very well correct, Jesus is not God, if he is the world is in big trouble, as how can anything good come out of a sinner Mk 10:40;13:32

 

[mailmandan]

Colossians 2:9 - (AMP) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

For those who do not believe that Jesus is God (in essence/nature) who or what do you believe He is? There is God, there are angels and there is humanity. What is the fourth option?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The problem is in the translation sir. The translators were not ignorant, it was deliberately manipulated to Deify Jesus. All versions which state it the way you posted it, add an a and do not capitalize the g at Acts 28:6 which was translated under the same rules of translation. There are other scriptures that show that they clearly knew how to translate it correctly as well.

You are very well correct, Jesus is not God, if he is the world is in big trouble, as how can anything good come out of a sinner Mk 10:40;13:32

You BLASPHEME by calling Jesus Christ THE Eternal Creator God, "a sinner"!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you missed my answer to your question in post #101 and I answered EACH of your other questions one after another prior to that. You just didn't LIKE my answers which were directly from scripture.

You have a nasty demeanor and a childishness about you that makes me feel like being unkind so I'm going to refrain and leave you in God's hands. Figure it out or don't.

God bless.

Yawn
whatever.

I will pray for you and pray you find Gods truth one day. You talk about my attitude well check your own attitude out. Your interpretation is all you have anyone can spew scripture it does not
Mean they got it right

when people start with the comments you make. It usually means there is pride involved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"You will know them by their fruit..."
(Matthew 7:15-20)
"There must be divisions among us in demeanor and words that we may know who belongs to God."
(1 Corinthians 11:19)

You assume your right. When people start using arguments which can be used against them instead of just talking about the points in question. They hurt their own case. They become hypocrites

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The problem is in the translation sir. The translators were not ignorant, it was deliberately manipulated to Deify Jesus. All versions which state it the way you posted it, add an a and do not capitalize the g at Acts 28:6 which was translated under the same rules of translation. There are other scriptures that show that they clearly knew how to translate it correctly as well.

You are very well correct, Jesus is not God, if he is the world is in big trouble, as how can anything good come out of a sinner Mk 10:40;13:32

Why is the world in trouble if Jesus is God? To me it’s the opposite. If he is mere man we are still dead in our sin. Who but God can take the sin of
Mankind on his flesh?

 

[Renniks]

Now Trinitarians have Triune Tunnel Vision, focusing only only the "with"!

No, they focus on Jesus being God and all things made through him also. If he was only with God, he could be someone else.

 

[Renniks]

1st, this thread is about John 1.

2nd, it is a rock solid argument when looking at the totality of Scripture, which does not one time mention the trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Not one time! Sure, all kinds of ambiguous statements, like John 1:1 are desperately reached for but fail basic scrutiny.

What does a singular pronoun refer to? 1 or 3?

You just admitted that Jesus is God. And the answer in this case is both. Because three are one and the one are three.