How about his theology though?Calvin apologists take different approaches to defending their theological hero with regards to the Servetus execution. One such approach is to say that Calvin was not culpable for the killing of Servetus, since he did not personally have the power or authority to put him to death. Unfortunately, for the Calvin apologist who takes this approach, Melanchthon and Calvin (who makes use of Melanchthon’s pronouncement in his own defense) would disagree. Calvin writes,
Let Baudouin abuse me as long as he will, provided that, by the judgment of Melanchthon, posterity owes me a debt of gratitude for having purged the Church of so pernicious a monster. (emphasis mine)
Therefore, Calvin was proud to take personal credit for “purg[ing] the church of so pernicious a monster [as Servetus].”
John Calvin and Calvinism.
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Ronald Nolette
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Im back!!!!
and so is Calvinism.
I don't know all of Calvins teachings. I have his epic on the Christian religion. I just know that teh five points most talk about are biblical truths and not calvin truths. He simply agreed with the Bible on those points!
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
God intended for all men to be saved when He died for all men's sins on the cross.
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
But not all men have believed and not all men are saved.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
2 ways to instantly know false teaching:
1. It sounds nothing like Scripture.
2. It contradicts Scripture.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Another way of certainly knowing false teaching, is when something makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
If one never 'got lost', then how can he 'fail to get saved'?
If God intended some souls to life by righteousness and other souls to death by sins, then He would have created souls that way.
And the cross of Christ would not be necessary, since the intended souls are made that way, and the other losers never had a chance anyway.
OSAS is mental.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
How wrong you are ---AGAIN!!!!
If it makes sense it is suspect!
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Every one is born lost! No one is born saved! Man has to be born again to be saved! And too bad if you cannot accept Gods Word as it is written.
Romans 9:19-23
King James Version
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 8:28-31
King James Version
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Ephesians 1
King James Version
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
John 6:37-39
King James Version
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:44
King James Version
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 15:16
King James Version
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
It is God who does the choosing- not proud boastful unsaved man!
That doesn't make sense in Calvinists theology.
If you are chosen individually before the foundation of the world, everyone is born destined for heaven or hell. No chosen one could be said to be born lost.
Picking Cherry's.
You need to understand the full council of God. I always get a chuckle about how Calvinists butcher Romans 9. They never ever post the entire chapter because it would prove thier theology doesn't work with the actual context.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Every one is born lost! No one is born saved! Man has to be born again to be saved! And too bad if you cannot accept Gods Word as it is written.
Don't tell me. Tell your fellow OSAS disciple talking about how you pre-intended souls never got lost before not failing to get saved.
How can one not getting lost ever fail to get saved, since they were never lost?
It is God who does the choosing- not proud boastful unsaved man!
Preselected souls specially intended by God for eternal life, like chosen lambs from the foundation of the world: that is bragging rights indeed.
I believe there is in Scripture one certain lamb that thinks he was prechosen like a christ from the foundation of the world:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
But he turned out to be a goat:
And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
A gloating goat at that:
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies.
OSAS is unconditional salvation for handpicked souls before ever the world began: they look like lambs and gloat like goats.
With all due respect, Renniks, this is a silly statement. Everyone is born in sin and in need of salvation in Christ and therefore justification. Being a member of God's elect even before the foundation of the world just means ("just" ~ wow, as if it is some mere thing) that at some point in one's life after he or she is born, he or she will be justified and placed in Christ and therefore redeemed.
Grace and peace to you.
Paul Christensen
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Calvin learned Biblical Hebrew and Greek to make sure that what he taught was entirely consistent with the Scripture from the original languages. I have extensively read his commentaries on the New Testament, as well as Isaiah, and see that he considered all the different views that commentators had in his time, and selected the one that he preferred most, along with detail explanation of why it was his preference. There were other positions that he said that he would not argue against even though they weren't his preference. Also, we have to view his writing as in the times he lived in. He was diametrically opposed to Roman Catholic theology, and he viewed the pope as the antiChrist. I guess he had a point in that, because the first two graduates of his Bible college were brutally murdered by Roman Catholics.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well it is what is known as positional and experiential truths.
Positionally a person is elect and chosen from the foundation of the world. but experientially, they are lost until they are empowered to trust in Jesus.
It is like the biblical truths that we are perfected forever, yet still sin. One is our position as God sees us and the other as we are in life.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well it does.
But as much of Romans 9 is about Israel , it also , when it comes to the issue of election speaks to all mankind. one just needs to reads the chapter to see when context changes.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well as I do no t know any of these kind of people you are squawking about, I( cannot go speak to them.
Only to those who choose to misunderstand there is no bragging rights. The elect are just as much sinners and we are saved by grace- not of ourselves- we have no cause to boast.
\
As for the false prophet- I don't see where he thought he was predestined. That is your assumption.
Only to you for you fail to understand teh Scriptures or the power of God.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I followed a similar course. I have learned Hebrew and Greek and still keep learning. I also have studied in-depth biblical cultural times and customs and how they used language. That is why I hold what I hold to and reject what I reject! I have become convinced it does the leaswt harm to teh Scriptures of all views and is closest to teh thoughts of the writers when they wrote.
So, how is he or she ever lost then? Is he or she's future in heaven ever in doubt? Can anything they do or experience change it?
It doesn't change. It's always about Israel and the gentiles. It's about God's grace being given to all humanity through the rebellion of the chosen nation. How ironic that Calvinism narrows that grace to a select few.
calvinism doesnt narrow anything. Its just a lot of people who think they are saved, actually arent. False converts has reached epidemic proportions.
God knows exactly who will and wont be saved. We hear a whole lot about assurance, and its nothing but ego. God knows if a person will be saved, He doesnt need any assurance. Thats a human desire. And no, we cant change God’s plans.
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