Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but this is both laughable and in error.
It is in error because your specific 'fault' with me was for 'using a single verse' to prove my point. You said nothing of context...which, I would imagine is always important and you in no way proved I had used my 'single verse' OUT of context. You then, rather ironically, used a single verse in order to prove me wrong, which I could also as easily say you 'used out of context'. You see the boo-boo there, right?
The gross error is yours, and what is greater error on your part is your failure to recognize your great error. The Biblical context is 'always' to be followed, and not men's ways with making up some new concept using Scripture out of its context of the Chapter where it appears.
In John 18:36 Jesus emphatically said His Kingdom is NOT of this world. Yet you STILL fail to address that Scripture in relation to the one you quoted me with 'attempting' to prove His Kingdom is already here on earth (Matthew 12:28 I think it was you quoted).
So now, you have resorted to an even more dastardly trait of trying to make up some ignorant idea against me which is nothing more than your bearing false witness (for folks who don't know what bearing a 'false witness' means, it means to tell a lie).
And laughable because whether context is correct or not (that is a whole other conversation which I would gladly take up), doctrines ARE made by verses and passages which speak on the SAME thing, and then bought together to form a whole, more complete picture. That, my friend, is fact, no matter how you may disagree with me.
What you just said is what is truly laughable, simply because Jesus in John 18:36 made it clear His Kingdom is NOT of this present world. And men's philosophy and traditions they make up cannot change that! That's the difference, showing God's Word as written is what is the Truth, and men's doctrines that try to change its context fall by the wayside.
Okay, now we're getting to the meat of the 'context' issue, which is good. Here are the two passages in question:
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” -John 18:36
And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. -Matthew 12:27–29
Let's agree on something fundamental straight up, okay? Scripture does not contradict scripture. All scripture harmonizes and if our understanding of it seems to be a contradiction, then it is our understanding that must be adjusted.
So, when we come to passages like the two above, where you claim there is a 'contradiction'...Jesus claiming the kingdom is 'not of this world'...but then also say that the kingdom has 'come upon you'...I submit that there is no contradiction.
Whoah! I NEVER said those two verses contradict each other. I said your theory CONTRADICTS those verses! Huge difference! The matter is that YOU don't understand HOW they do NOT contradict each other!
I tried to explain to you why there is no contradiction between those verses, but you didn't listen. You obviously cannot handle being corrected and love following your doctrines of men more!
The kingdom primarily manifests in the presence of Jesus Christ, both bodily...as he was then, but also spiritually, as he remains in the lives, through the Spirit, in those who follow him. Thus we can look at the above passages and say that the kingdom was most certainly not an 'earthly' kingdom "of this world", but most certainly did it 'come upon them' when Jesus used his powers to proclaim freedom from sin in his name.
There are TWO Christ's 'kingdom' concepts written of in God's Word. I tried to explain this to you, but you did not listen. I don't mean this according to Pre-tribulationalists either:
1. The spiritual Kingdom
2. The literal earthly Kingdom
The 'spiritual' kingdom is what Lord Jesus was declaring to the blind Pharisees in Matthew 12-25-28. When Lord Jesus came in the flesh through woman's womb to die on the cross, that is when He established His 'spiritual' kingdom through His Church. And just so you know, that is established through all His saints, those of us here on earth, and also those of His in the heavenly today, for as Peter taught, Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel, and as written led the prisoners out of the darkness of the prison house (Isaiah 42:7). For this cause The Gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit (1 Peter 4:5-6).
However, the physical, literal kingdom, when He will actually SIT upon David's throne, an earthly throne, is not yet today. That will begin with His return as written in Matthew 25.
Men's false doctrines of Full Preterism tries to push the non-existence of that future literal kingdom to come here on earth with Christ's return, and instead preach only a 'spiritual' kingdom concept for today, and only God knows what they preach after this world, because they do not accept a literal physical kingdom. They even preach falsely that Jesus' 2nd coming already happened back in the Apostle's days, simply saying it was a 'spiritual' event! Thus they REJECT Christ's future literal bodily return back to this earth as written. By their false ideas, they place themselves in danger of His rejecting them when He appears coming in the clouds.
This is WHY they reject the John 18:36 Scripture, which you also have done. Do you really... want to associate with such antichrists?