Let me clarify this. I believe in "OSNAS" Scripturally, but...
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I believe that people can experience the power of the Spirit without being "born again." I believe all people can choose to operate with the virtues of Christ, since it is freely given to all.
But if they are not "born again," they will be unable to demonstrate the character of one who is "born again," which demonstrates who you are, and not just what you can do. It is who you can be, and not what good works you do.
So yes, if you're truly "born again," or Saved, then you will never lose who you've truly become. You may capitulate to the weakness of the flesh. But you will never lose who you are. If you've chosen to be this new person, you've made an eternal choice, and you have received "Eternal Life."
It is true love for God and the desire to be with Him forever that causes a person to want to be "born again," or Saved. In choosing Him, we choose something that transcends devotion to anything else. It is the choice to abandon the sins of the world for the One who has no sin.
It is a commitment to virtue itself. And then to become virtuous is the goal of becoming "born again," to be like the Lord who we've chosen to serve. We must choose to be rid of our own sin to become "born again" and Saved. Once we do that we become who we've chosen to be.
I see it like this. When you're born again, God puts His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, in you. Then you start to have a good conscience toward God in all your ways and I also feel "forced" to stay where I am and that I can go absolutely no where else and that I can never leave God. I don't know if everyone who is born again feels this way so the discussion can happen here, but if every born again Christian says the same thing then my conclusion is right. Thanks.
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ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
What's confusing.
Jesus preached eternal life and eternal salvation. Eternal, is exactly that .
Jesus never once stated our salvation could be revoked. Not once.
There are those who claim salvation can be lost. That's not true.
There are those who insist the ten commandments of God are now void. That's not true either. The ten commands of God set the foundation for our faith.
Remember, Satan has disciples too.
Enemies of the cross will always try to insist Jesus failed. He did not fail.
They'll find that out soon enough. Till then don't ever believe the lies of Satan and his disciples.
Jesus died to guarantee the new covenant. He didn't do that for a doctrine of impermanence. That really ticks Satan off because it robbed him of his power over life and death.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Consider that all are saved....in Jesus. That is the gift. All however, don't want it. The Good News comes to them but they don't believe it.....yet for those who do, it is Salvation.
1 Timothy 4:10
'For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe'.
@thelord's_pearl,
If you have some money,
Buy a thompson chain reference bible, its a very helpful bible,
Youll get a lot of people sharing here, but you need to go and seek for yourself, asking God to help you in your endeavour and a lot can be learned from the New testament which can be read in a month; but write down what you read or something to help you learn and grow and remember…
Its greatly helped me, and it would you too, with that bible, i dont know what youre confused about.
All i can suggest to you is dont hardern your heart or allow the spirit of disbelief to come into your heart and pull you away from the living God; trust in him daily and seek for him diligently and you will be rewarded with an answer and you will find truth which will set you free and bring you liberty in christ.
That is what many people need to do; I done read the new testament i never read ALL the old but still everytime you go back there is something to learn.
Thats all i can honestly suggest,
Love you sister, or brother in Christ
Matthew
If you have some money,
Buy a thompson chain reference bible, its a very helpful bible,
Youll get a lot of people sharing here, but you need to go and seek for yourself, asking God to help you in your endeavour and a lot can be learned from the New testament which can be read in a month; but write down what you read or something to help you learn and grow and remember…
Its greatly helped me, and it would you too, with that bible, i dont know what youre confused about.
All i can suggest to you is dont hardern your heart or allow the spirit of disbelief to come into your heart and pull you away from the living God; trust in him daily and seek for him diligently and you will be rewarded with an answer and you will find truth which will set you free and bring you liberty in christ.
That is what many people need to do; I done read the new testament i never read ALL the old but still everytime you go back there is something to learn.
Thats all i can honestly suggest,
Love you sister, or brother in Christ
Matthew
You shouldnt feel forced to do anything btw @thelord's_pearl: you should have freedom in Christ to be you, yourself. You should know you are lover by God and he just desires a relationship and you simply be, with Christ in your heart and love Yahava and then love others as yourself. If you dont love yourself, that might be a probelm for a person who loves themselves will go desire to get wisdom and understanding.
Nothing compares to denying yourself in getting in to the bible and learning first hand, on your own with God guiding you over anyone else…
And dont be afraid to question, anything and everthing and bring it up to others like this here now.
I dont know if you enjoy reading, going on walks, listening to music, going to work, socializing but you are still able to do those things in Christ so i hope you dont feel in prison cause thats not freedom especially if its coming from someone in your life who demands you do this or you do that, that is abuse.
All the best in Christ,
Matthew
Nothing compares to denying yourself in getting in to the bible and learning first hand, on your own with God guiding you over anyone else…
And dont be afraid to question, anything and everthing and bring it up to others like this here now.
I dont know if you enjoy reading, going on walks, listening to music, going to work, socializing but you are still able to do those things in Christ so i hope you dont feel in prison cause thats not freedom especially if its coming from someone in your life who demands you do this or you do that, that is abuse.
All the best in Christ,
Matthew
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
God chose me, I didn't choose Him. Jesus has me in His hands and has performed numerous miracles throughout my lifetime. He will not let me go, Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. I've failed many times but Jesus always brings me back and makes me whole, because He loves me.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I hate abuse, @quietthinker i was an abuser at one time. Its not fair to people to lie and manipulate, and abuse them - with the intent to do those things which leads to people which leads to death.
All the best,
Matthew
All the best,
Matthew
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
perhaps you could share how you see the connection between the above post and the word 'should'?
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
I believe that a Christian can be in God's good graces one day and then lose their salvation. Take the Reverend Jim Jones. Early in his ministry, he was, I believe, devoted to God's word and to spreading it. Eventually, however, he went down a different path.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
Well, technically, "eternal" means having no beginning. The only thing that is "eternal" is God.
@quietthinker i dont even know what your saying because it comes out of know where you addressed nothing in my post so how am i suppose to know what these crypt messages mean.
You could have commented with support down the line by quoting and commenting what you think is important or not important, please will you do something liek that next time so i can follow along then having to guess?
This is something i just wanted to post below becaue it talks about not to trust princes or men.
Praise the LORD, O my soul. I will praise the LORD all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
Love to all of you, and the best outcome in Christ,
Matthew
You could have commented with support down the line by quoting and commenting what you think is important or not important, please will you do something liek that next time so i can follow along then having to guess?
This is something i just wanted to post below becaue it talks about not to trust princes or men.
Praise the LORD, O my soul. I will praise the LORD all my life; I will sing praise to my God as long as I live. Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
Love to all of you, and the best outcome in Christ,
Matthew
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Jim Jones was never in Christ.
Show us the scripture where Jesus states he will remove salvation from a saved person. And undo all that redemption accomplished in them.
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
Do you believe that there have been preachers who were initially devoted to God but who then took their own path away from God?
Can I presume that the answer is that none of them were ever "in Christ" in the first place?
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
It depends. Jim Jones was never in Christ.
However, Peter denied Jesus three times while Jesus was still on the cross. Was Peter no longer in Christ?
That is why I was talking about believing in OSNAS which is scriptural but that after you're "born again", from my experience it seems like you're always Saved because it feels like I'm surrounded by a container which I call the sheep's pen since the bible talks about something like that and I feel this Godly force that I have-to and will be staying in the container that surrounds me and that I can never leave God like what the bible says, "no one can snatch them out of My hand." I also can no longer intentionally/willfully sin. I am really a new creature like the bible says. I only can unintentionally sin which I think is the sanctification process so I guess I sometimes walk out of the container a bit but I always have-to and will come back inside and want to and am happy to, it feels like home. Don't get me wrong, I am happy about this feeling, it makes me feel like I'm written in the Book of Life. I feel honoured to be welcome to heaven and loved by God.
I'm not sure if it was implied somewhere in this thread that I was probably abused in a way that I was forced and that's why I said I felt forced to stay with God and feel I can go nowhere else. No, that is not the case so that is cancelled out. This seems like a pure spiritual experience of mine as a Christian with God. I wonder if other born again Christians feel like I describe.
"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?' Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers’" (Matthew 7:21-23).
Matthew 25:35-46 New American Standard Bible
For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
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And there are more verses including The Parable of the Ten Virgins and about who are the sons or children of God. I can give you the link to the thread where I copied and pasted a lot of scriptures if you'd like.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
It's kind of interesting how you put it like that. I remember as a young Christian how I was drawn to the verse in 1 John that said, "no one born of God practices sin." It was not saying so much that "Christians never sin," but that "Christians by nature do not want to sin--they have the Holy Spirit residing in them and a new nature that wants to be led by Him."
That verse showed me how I had been changed, how instead of just "following the Golden Rule," or " following the 10 Commandments," I had a new nature that was entranced by God Himself, making me want to serve Him as far as I could go!
If we get to this point, hopefully it is more than just "blind ambition." Hopefully it is not just to get a star on a sidewalk or a place on the stage. Hopefully it isn't just to say "I know someone important." Hopefully, it is that we are drawn, by a new nature, to want to be like someone who is pure.
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