Lord's Day

[Marymog]

There will always be those that will disagree. Individuals must choose what they believe the truth is.

Nope. You are wrong Barney. Individuals don't "choose what they believe the truth is". Where is that in Scripture?

Curious Mary

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney,

So, are they a cult with a christianized coating?[/QUOTE\]

Jesus Christ was accused of being a drunkard, a glutton, a Sabbath breaker, a false witness, a blasphemer, a messenger of Satan and of being guilty of subversion. Matthew 9:34; 11:19;12:24; 26:65; John 8:13; 9:16; 19:12.

After Jesus Christ death and resurrection, after he had gone back into heaven, his disciples were also accused of serious accusations. Jesus disciples in the 1st century were dragged to the city rulers by people saying: "These men have overturned the inhabited earth." (Acts 17:6) At another time the apostle Paul and Silas were taken to the authorities and charged with greatly disburing the city of Philippi. (Acts 16:20)

Paul was later accused of being a "pestilent fellow and stirring up seditions among the Jews throughout the inhabited earth" and of trying "to profane the temple." (Acts 24:5, 6) The principle men of the Jews in Rome accurately described the situation of Jesus followers when they acknowledged: "For truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against." (Acts 28: 22)

Evidently the disciples of Jesus Christ in the 1st century were considered by many people, to be a religious group with radical views and practices that clashed with what was considered normal social behaviour. To be honest I think if the apostles and 1st century Christians were on earth today preaching, Christendom would consider them a destructive sect. Anyways, back in the 1st century those that accused the apostles and disciples of Jesus were prominent and respected men of the community, which gave weight to the legitimacy of their allegations, in many peoples minds of that time. However we know that every one of these allegations or accusations were false. Just as people of that time grew up in a traditional way of living and believing and they made such charges against the apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ doesn't make what they said true. That is true today.

Would it be accurate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are a religious group with radical views and practices that clash with what is accepted as normal social behaviour? Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult?

A government official of the city of St. Petersburg, Russia, said: “Jehovah’s Witnesses were presented to us as some kind of underground sect sitting in the darkness and slaughtering children and killing themselves.” However, the people of Russia have recently become better acquainted with the true nature of the Witnesses. After working with Jehovah’s Witnesses in connection with an international convention, the same official said: “Now I see normal, smiling people, even better than many people I know. They are peaceful and calm, and they love one another very much.” He added: “I really do not understand why people tell such lies about them.”

The “Witnesses have earned the reputation of being honest, courteous, and industrious,” says Julia Mitchell Corbett in her book Religion in America. Many who are not Witnesses readily acknowledge that there is nothing freakish or bizarre about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their conduct does not clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior. The New Encyclopædia Britannica accurately states that the Witnesses “insist upon a high moral code in personal conduct.”

The director of news and special projects for a television station in the United States wrote to Jehovah’s Witnesses in response to a biased report about the Witnesses on the TV news show 60 Minutes. He said: “If more people lived the way your faith does, this nation wouldn’t be in the shape it is in. I am one newsman who knows that your organization is founded on love and a strong faith in the Creator. I want you to know that not all News people are as biased.

Is it fair to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a small fringe religious group? Well its true that Jehovah’s Witnesses are few in number compared to some religions. However, we should recall what Jesus said: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”(Matthew 7:13, 14).

There was a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights which declared that the Witnesses should enjoy freedom of thought, conscience, and religion and that they have the right to speak about their faith and teach it to others. This would hardly be the case if Jehovah’s Witnesses were known to use deceptive and unethical techniques to recruit members or if they used manipulative methods to control the minds of their followers.

Many people are studying with the Witnesses or have studied with the Witnesses and none have said that there have been any attempts to brainwash them, or to use any mind-control techniques. It would be obvious that if any such techniques had been used or is being used there would be an overwhelming number of victims in contradiction of any argument in favor of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general. Is that the case with Jehovah’s Witnesses? A newsman in the Czech Republic said: “I do not belong to Jehovah’s Witnesses it's obvious that they [Jehovah’s Witnesses] have tremendous moral strength. . . . They recognize governmental authorities but believe that only God’s Kingdom is capable of solving all human problems. But watch it—they are not fanatics. They are people who are absorbed in humanity.”

Jehovah's Witnesses do not live in communes, isolating themselves from relatives and others. They recognize that it is their Scriptural responsibility to love and care for their families. They live and work with people of all races and religions. When disasters strike, they are quick to respond with relief supplies and other humanitarian assistance.

Most important, Jehovah's Witnesses are engaged in an educational program that has no comparison. How many religions have an organized system to pay personal visits to every individual in their community? Jehovah’s Witnesses do this in more than 200 lands and in more than 200 languages! Clearly, Jehovah’s Witnesses are “absorbed in humanity.”

Admittedly, the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses are different from those provided by Christendom. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jehovah is the almighty God and that Jesus is his Son, not part of a triune deity. Our faith is anchored in the belief that God’s Kingdom alone can bring relief to suffering humanity. We warn people of the imminent destruction of this wicked world we're living in. We preach about God’s promise of an earthly paradise for obedient mankind. We do not venerate the cross. We do not celebrate Christmas. We believe that the soul is mortal and that there is no hellfire. We will not eat blood, nor will we accept blood transfusions. We abstain from involvement in politics and participation in warfare. Have you ever asked yourself why the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses are so different?

A Massachusetts newspaper, the Daily Hampshire Gazette, explains that Jehovah’s Witnesses’ “strict interpretation of the Bible forbids many activities others take for granted . . . , all in an effort to follow the example of first-century Christians and the word of the Bible.” The Encyclopedia of Religion agrees that “all that they believe is based on the Bible. They ‘proof text’ (that is, supply a biblical citation to support) almost every statement of faith, taking for granted the authority of the Bible, which entirely supplants tradition.” The book Religion in America states: “The group has never wavered from its focus on Bible study, and its teachings are supported by an elaborate system of references to scripture.”

It is precisely because of this close adherence to Bible teachings that the veneration and idolization of human leaders so characteristic of cults today is not to be found among Jehovah’s Witnesses. They reject the concept of a clergy-laity distinction. The Encyclopedia of Religion aptly states about Jehovah’s Witnesses: “A clergy class and distinctive titles are prohibited.”

They follow Jesus Christ as their Leader and as Head of the Christian congregation. It was Jesus who said: “Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.”Matthew 23:8-12.

It is clear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are as far from being a cult as Jesus was from being a glutton and a drunkard. Admittedly, not everyone who was influenced by the false reports about Jesus and his disciples fell into the trap of slandering him. Some may simply have been misinformed. If people have questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses and their beliefs, people should ask them and get to know them better.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Nope. You are wrong Barney. Individuals don't "choose what they believe the truth is". Where is that in Scripture?

Curious Mary

No Marymog I'm not wrong. Everyone including you makes a choice on what they believe is true.

 

[Marymog]

No Marymog I'm not wrong. Everyone including you makes a choice on what they believe is true.

In a sense you are right....we can choose what we THINK the truth is. But that does not make it THE Truth.

You wrote an entire post on what you THINK the truth is....but that does not make it true.

If you presented your dissertation from post #1 to an Apostle and you told them it was the truth, but they then disagree with you, would you still be confident that YOUR truth was THE truth?

 

[Aunty Jane]

One day you’ll leave this body behind and your soul will go on to be judged by God.

I don’t believe that his is what happens Matthew. The “soul” in the Bible is “you”. It says that we all die and return to the dust....there is no immortal part of man that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

The Jewish belief (which was also what Christ taught) was that the grave (Sheol, hades) held a person until it was time for the resurrection. Death was then merely a peaceful “sleep”, as Jesus said of his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) With no consciousness and the assurance of a resurrection, a “soul” (person) would then be in a state of non-existence until it was time for the resurrection, which the Bible teaches is a return to life, not a continuation of it.

Jesus will then call all of the dead from their tombs as it says in John 5:28-29. Both the righteous and the unrighteous are all called from the same place...they haven’t gone anywhere. (Acts 24:15) The wicked, who are judged to be incorrigible, will never see life again as they are consigned to “Gehenna”, which is a destination with no exit. It is eternal death....with no possibility of a resurrection. (The “lake of fire” which destroys, not tortures. Matthew 10:28)

I believe the day of the Lords return was for a group of people back then who were encouraged to hold fast and wait for Jesus return while the people at the written churches to and were warned by Jesus through the spirit by John was foretelling them the time was coming soon for Jesus To return and gather the bridegroom of believers along with leaving a remnant behind that after the destruction of Jerusalem.

According to Paul, the resurrection of God’s chosen ones had to wait for Christ’s return. He would gather these ones first and take them to heaven in preparation for the final showdown on earth between God and his adversary. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) No one went to heaven before Jesus (John 3:13) and no one else was to go to heaven before Christ’s return.
In his Revelation, Jesus tells John that satan and his hordes would be cast down to the earth for the duration of these “last days”, which indicated increasing “woe for the earth”, but “joy in heaven” because satan and co. are not there to cause them trouble ever again. (Revelation 12:7-12)
We have seen the woe increase exponentially as these last days draw to a close. Jesus’ return was indicated by the sign he gave to show his disciples that he was “present”, not that he was “coming” as judge just yet. (Matthew 24:3) That would happen at the very end when the separation of the “sheep and the goats” was complete. The last judgment is final, but yet future.

The new heaven and earth came about which was the old Jewish material ways of worship was done away with. New spiritual worship was achieved by the victory of Gods Son.

Since Peter said....”But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”
This was after the death of Christ and way into the future. At that time no one knew that thousands of earth years had to pass before its fulfilment. But those asleep in their graves would not be aware of the passing of time, which means that no one ever had to wait for the fulfilment of Kingdom promises longer than their own lifetime.

And since “righteousness” was to be the end product of the Kingdom’s rule over mankind, we have never seen righteousness practiced here on earth except by God’s own son....the only sinless man to have lived since Adam, and the only one who died sinless....”the last Adam”. (1 Corinthians 15:45) His life was the ransom for all mankind....giving the exact redemption price demanded by God’s law. (Exodus 21:23)

So, I believe that we are in the “last days” of this present world system, as we see it vainly trying to maintain some control after a succession of failed governmental systems down through the ages. God has allowed mankind under the devil’s oversight to try every conceivable form of human controlled government...but to date all have failed. The totalitarian rule of the coming ‘one world government’ will also be a disaster, but it will be the catalyst for the change that God himself will bring about by giving humans back his own rulership in the capable hands of his most trusted son, and those chosen to rule with him, (Daniel 2:44) bringing us all back to the beginning.....living in paradise eternally with God’s kingdom ruling over us, which is why Jesus taught us to pray for it, so that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”.

Be encouraged to read your Bible, friends in Christ.

Absolutely....but do not trust your own understanding. (Proverbs 3:5-6)
God has always provided teachers for his people...but satan does too. Be mindful of the counterfeits who will teach was is not in scripture and who blindly follow the traditions of men.

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t believe that his is what happens Matthew. The “soul” in the Bible is “you”. It says that we all die and return to the dust....there is no immortal part of man that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

The Jewish belief (which was also what Christ taught) was that the grave (Sheol, hades) held a person until it was time for the resurrection. Death was then merely a peaceful “sleep”, as Jesus said of his friend Lazarus. (John 11:11-14) With no consciousness and the assurance of a resurrection, a “soul” (person) would then be in a state of non-existence until it was time for the resurrection, which the Bible teaches is a return to life, not a continuation of it.

Jesus will then call all of the dead from their tombs as it says in John 5:28-29. Both the righteous and the unrighteous are all called from the same place...they haven’t gone anywhere. (Acts 24:15) The wicked, who are judged to be incorrigible, will never see life again as they are consigned to “Gehenna”, which is a destination with no exit. It is eternal death....with no possibility of a resurrection. (The “lake of fire” which destroys, not tortures. Matthew 10:28)


According to Paul, the resurrection of God’s chosen ones had to wait for Christ’s return. He would gather these ones first and take them to heaven in preparation for the final showdown on earth between God and his adversary. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) No one went to heaven before Jesus (John 3:13) and no one else was to go to heaven before Christ’s return.
In his Revelation, Jesus tells John that satan and his hordes would be cast down to the earth for the duration of these “last days”, which indicated increasing “woe for the earth”, but “joy in heaven” because satan and co. are not there to cause them trouble ever again. (Revelation 12:7-12)
We have seen the woe increase exponentially as these last days draw to a close. Jesus’ return was indicated by the sign he gave to show his disciples that he we “present”, not that he was “coming” as judge just yet. (Matthew 24:3) That would happen at the very end when the separation of the “sheep and the goats” was complete. The last judgment is final, but yet future.


Since Peter said....”But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”
This was after the death of Christ and way into the future. At that time no one knew that thousands of earth years had to pass before its fulfilment. But those asleep in their graves would not be aware of the passing of time, which means that no one ever had to wait for the fulfilment of Kingdom promises longer than their own lifetime.

And since “righteousness” was to be the end product of the Kingdom’s rule over mankind, we have never seen righteousness practiced here on earth except by God’s own son....the only sinless man to have lived since Adam, and the only one who died sinless....”the last Adam”. (1 Corinthians 15:45) His life was the ransom for all mankind....giving the exact redemption price demanded by God’s law. (Exodus 21:23)

So, I believe that we are in the “last days” of this present world system, as we see it vainly trying to maintain some control after a succession of failed governmental systems down through the ages. God has allowed mankind under the devil’s oversight to try every conceivable form of human controlled government...but to date all have failed. The totalitarian rule of the coming ‘one world government’ will also be a disaster, but it will be the catalyst for the change that God himself will bring about by giving humans back his own rulership in the capable hands of his most trusted son, and those chosen to rule with him, (Daniel 2:44) bringing us all back to the beginning.....living in paradise eternally with God’s kingdom ruling over us, which is why Jesus taught us to pray for it, so that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”.


Absolutely....but do not trust your own understanding. (Proverbs 3:5-6)
God has always provided teachers for his people...but satan does too. Be mindful of the counterfeits who will teach was is not in scripture and blindly follow the traditions of men.

Aunty,

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint and different perspective with me.

in love, kindness, respect, honor, patience, joy, of Christ,
Matthew Gallagher.

 

[n2thelight]

In the hopes of clarifying the day of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1914C.E. This is the year the times of the Gentiles ended and Jesus started ruling in the midst of his enemies in heaven. This is also Called the second presence of Jesus Christ. Now the Day of YHWH which is Armageddon it's still in the future, exactly when in the future we don't know, but think it's very close.

Why do you think 1914, ? That Day can't start until Christ is on this earth. Recall if you will when Christ read the words of of Isaiah

Luke 4:17 "And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,"

Luke 4:18 " "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

Luke 4:19 "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

First notice that at the end of verse 19 there is a period, yet in Isaiah there is no period, but it continues on into the day of vengeance. This then is what is known as the "gap theory" to many, and it comes out of Isaiah 61:1, 2. Each of these items that is spoken of here deals with the salvation that Jesus brought in His first advent, living His life and preaching the gospel. Then when Jesus gets so far in the reading, He shuts the scroll and sits down. Lets review those verses.

Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek [humble]; He hath send Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;"

The place where Jesus stopped was fulfilled at the time when Jesus read this Scripture. "The day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;" will not happen until Jesus returns at the seventh trump.

Luke 4:20 "And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him."

Luke 4:21 "And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Jesus told them that this part of Isaiah was fulfilled, completed. Jesus is telling the folks back home that He was the Messiah, for that portion in Isaiah 61:1, 2 is prophecy of those things that Messiah would say. Jesus is declaring that this prophecy was fulfilled in Him.

Isaiah 61:3 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified."

From the last half of verse two and including this verse will not happen until Jesus returns at the seventh trump. When Jesus return He will give vengeance to those that have did evil to His own, and He will comfort to all those that do mourn. This is the place in God's word where it documents two advents of our Lord to this earth. The first is when Jesus came as Savior to mankind. He did that when He went to the cross. While the second advent is this day of vengeance when Jesus will come with a rod of iron to make all things right. It will be the payday for all the evil and wickedness that has been done in this time of flesh man. No Jesus won't be riding in Jerusalem on the back of donkey, but on a heavenly white horse.

These are the only TWO advents of Christ in all of scripture ,it's no rapture nowhere in between.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

In a sense you are right....we can choose what we THINK the truth is. But that does not make it THE Truth.

You wrote an entire post on what you THINK the truth is....but that does not make it true.

If you presented your dissertation from post #1 to an Apostle and you told them it was the truth, but they then disagree with you, would you still be confident that YOUR truth was THE truth?

Just because you and others don't believe what I wrote in that post is true doesn't mean you're right about what you think.
As I said, there will always be those that will disagree. Individuals must choose what they believe the truth is.
People will choose to believe from their study of the scriptures what they believe the truth is. I agree that just because of their personal study of the scriptures what they believe that truth is doesn't necessarily mean what they believe to be true, is true.
Jesus Christ said that there would be people in the world some who are weeds others who are wheat. Jesus Christ said he sewed wheat in the world of mankind but Jesus Christ said the weeds were sewed by Satan. Jesus said for a period of time people in the world wouldn't be able to tell who was the wheat and who were the weeds. That means that the weeds who are not true Christians but actually Satan's disciples would truly believe they are true Christians. Jesus Christ said that it would be when his second presence began that Angels would be used to separate the wheat from the weeds. So I agree that just because a person or an organization of people believe they are Christians doesn't necessarily make that true. People will choose to believe what they believe the truth is.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When Jesus return He will give vengeance to those that have did evil to His own, and He will comfort to all those that do mourn. This is the place in God's word where it documents two advents of our Lord to this earth. The first is when Jesus came as Savior to mankind. He did that when He went to the cross. While the second advent is this day of vengeance when Jesus will come with a rod of iron to make all things right. It will be the payday for all the evil and wickedness that has been done in this time of flesh man. No Jesus won't be riding in Jerusalem on the back of donkey, but on a heavenly white horse.

These are the only TWO advents of Christ in all of scripture ,it's no rapture nowhere in between.

Many believe in this rapture, but the Bible merely says that the resurrection of his elect will take place “first”. (Revelation 20:6) Only the ones remaining before the judgment would be “taken” instantaneously before the final showdown.

Since Jesus’ presence (his “parousia”) is the beginning of the “time of the end”, then according to the prophesy in Daniel (which the Jews used to calculate Messiah’s first appearance in 29 CE) his “parousia” was to occur at the conclusion of the “Gentile times”. (1914 CE) This was the control of God’s people by Gentile powers, and it had to run its course. In Jesus’ day the Jews were under Roman domination, something Jesus did not interfere with.

World conditions would also be evidence of his presence as King, to direct his disciples in the preaching of his Kingdom in all the world. (Matthew 24:3-14) This would be the only witness given to those alive in this judgment period, just as it was for those in Noah’s day. All the while that the ark was being constructed, Noah warned the people about what was coming, but they did not listen. Jesus said to expect little response to this preaching work as well. (Matthew 24:37-39)

Daniel’s prophesy contained a march of world powers that began with Babylon, and continued through Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and finally Britain, which came to be allied with the USA in these “last days”, and was to finish with the current world powers. This is the time for Daniel 2:44 to see its fulfilment.

This “time of the end”, Daniel foretold, would be a time when a cleansing, whitening and refining of God’s worshippers would take place. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10) It was a time for the “wheat and the weeds” to be separated by the preaching of God’s kingdom, and what it would accomplish for mankind on this earth. Those who accepted the cleansing and refining would take in the “abundant knowledge” that God would provide at this time, whereas the “wicked” would not. They would carry on with their comfortable lies rather than accept an inconvenient truth. Ostracism would result in the same way as it was for Jesus’ original disciples, persecuted and hated by those who purported to worship the same God.... (John 15:18-21)....the ones who put Christ to death, believing their religious leaders that he was a false Messiah and a blasphemer deserving of this punishment. (Matthew 27:25)

History repeats because people do not learn the lessons of the past, and satan does not change his tactics.

If Christ received his kingship in 1914, (foretold in Daniel 7:13-14) then the first act he performed as king, was to evict satan and his cronies from heaven, which meant relief for them, but woe for us. (Revelation 12:7-12)

“Woe for the earth” began with what Jesus had foretold in Matthew 24...unprecedented warfare, food shortages, disease outbreaks, major earthquakes, false messiahs, and an increase in lawlessness resulting in love for one’s fellow man growing cold. But also we would see the preaching of “the good news of God’s kingdom” on a global scale to act as a catalyst for separation. Only those who responded to the good news would experience what Jesus foretold in John 6:44 and 65. God would “draw” those responders to his truth because “no one can come to the Son” without an invitation from his Father. The rest are left to their own created “delusions”. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) God will not correct them. The first they will know of their error is when they are rejected outright by Jesus at the judgment when he tells them that he “never knew” them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

So this is the situation we all face right now....there are only two roads and every one of us is on either one road or the other. (Matthew 7:13-14) When we choose the road, we choose the destination.

We believe that the separation of the “wheat from the weeds” is rapidly coming to its conclusion as we are all staring down the barrel of the ‘greatest tribulation’ in mankind’s history, (Matthew 24:21) and only by our endurance in the faith will we be granted salvation. (Matthew 24:13)

We cannot be alone in our beliefs because Christianity is a brotherhood guided and directed by a “faithful and wise slave” whom Jesus himself appointed at this time to “feed” his fellow slaves “their food at the proper time” (Matthew 24:45) All of these would speak in agreement with no divisions among them, (1 Corinthians 1:10) and all would be preachers of the kingdom in all the world, bringing the kingdom message to their neighbors. (Matthew 10:11-14)

Who in Christendom is preaching and making disciples as Jesus instructed (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 20:20) and how many can actually tell us what God’s kingdom is? How many who think that they will go to heaven have any idea of what going to heaven actually means? Faith without knowledge is blind. In this “time of the end” “abundant knowledge” is available.....there are no excuses that we can offer to the judge for not gaining that knowledge and acting on it. We have to be found “doing the will of the Father”.

 

[Pearl]

As Christians every day should be the Lord's day.
This is the day the Lord has made. We will rejoice and be glad in it.
Psalm 118:24

 

[quietthinker]

Most in Christendom cannot even tell you what God's Kingdom is.

So far AJ, you haven't been able to define it either. You are probably not even aware of this and my guess is you assume that all the yada yada you's guys engage qualifies as the Kingdom of God....interesting mind trick!

 

[Aunty Jane]

So far AJ, you haven't been able to define it either. You are probably not even aware of this and my guess is you assume that all the yada yada you's guys engage qualifies as the Kingdom of God....interesting mind trick!

You are the King of mind tricks QT....

Daniel 2:44...in plain English....speaking of our day...."the time of the end"....
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever." (NLT)

 

[quietthinker]

You are the King of mind tricks QT....

Daniel 2:44...in plain English....speaking of our day...."the time of the end"....
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever." (NLT)

Do you think this text you have quoted tells me what God's Kingdom consists of AJ ?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Why do you think 1914, ? That Day can't start until Christ is on this earth. Recall if you will when Christ read the words of of Isaiah

Luke 4:17 "And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,"

Luke 4:18 " "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"

Luke 4:19 "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

First notice that at the end of verse 19 there is a period, yet in Isaiah there is no period, but it continues on into the day of vengeance. This then is what is known as the "gap theory" to many, and it comes out of Isaiah 61:1, 2. Each of these items that is spoken of here deals with the salvation that Jesus brought in His first advent, living His life and preaching the gospel. Then when Jesus gets so far in the reading, He shuts the scroll and sits down. Lets review those verses.

Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me; because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek [humble]; He hath send Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Isaiah 61:2 "To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;"

The place where Jesus stopped was fulfilled at the time when Jesus read this Scripture. "The day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that morn;" will not happen until Jesus returns at the seventh trump.

Luke 4:20 "And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him."

Luke 4:21 "And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Jesus told them that this part of Isaiah was fulfilled, completed. Jesus is telling the folks back home that He was the Messiah, for that portion in Isaiah 61:1, 2 is prophecy of those things that Messiah would say. Jesus is declaring that this prophecy was fulfilled in Him.

Isaiah 61:3 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that He might be glorified."

From the last half of verse two and including this verse will not happen until Jesus returns at the seventh trump. When Jesus return He will give vengeance to those that have did evil to His own, and He will comfort to all those that do mourn. This is the place in God's word where it documents two advents of our Lord to this earth. The first is when Jesus came as Savior to mankind. He did that when He went to the cross. While the second advent is this day of vengeance when Jesus will come with a rod of iron to make all things right. It will be the payday for all the evil and wickedness that has been done in this time of flesh man. No Jesus won't be riding in Jerusalem on the back of donkey, but on a heavenly white horse.

These are the only TWO advents of Christ in all of scripture ,it's no rapture nowhere in between.

Jesus said just before he was put to death, that the world would see him no more, he said they, meaning his apostles and disciples would see him, but not the world. Jesus apostles saw him after his resurrection but not any unbelievers.(John 14:19) Acts 10:40, 41 tells us that after Jesus was resurrected it was only those apostles and disciples those who ate and drank with him that saw him. So the world will not literally see Jesus. Jesus will not again take on a fleshly body and rule on earth. He will rule over earth in that heavenly Messianic Kingdom with those who are the anointed who will be kings and priests with Jesus in that Messianic Kingdom. These anointed will be resurrected to heaven because Jesus told his apostles just before his death that he was going to his Father to prepare a place for them then when he comes back he will take them back with him.(John 14:3,4).

Secular historians say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E. but scripture chronology indicates that the destruction occurred in 607 B.C.E.
Secular historians base their conclusions on the writings of classical historians and on the canon of Ptolemy.
But some writings of classical historians contain significant errors and are not always consistent with the records on clay tablets.

The scriptures say that the Jewish captives were to be exiled in Babylon “until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of YHWH spoken by Jeremiah.” They were released in the first regnal year of Cyrus king of Persia.(2 Chronicles 36:21, 22) Biblical and secular history agree that this exile in Babylon ended after Cyrus conquered Babylon and freed the Jews, who returned to Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E. Since Biblical and secular history agree that it was the year 537 B.C.E. when the 70 years of exile ended for the Jews because the scriptures explicitly say that the exile lasted for 70 years, that means the exile began in 607 B.C.E. which is when the time of the gentiles began.

People ask why do we say Jesus invisible second presence began or why we say Jesus began ruling as king in 1914 that he began ruling as king. It is in the Bible book of Daniel. (Daniel 4:10-37) There a giant, heaven-high tree is used to represent King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. However, King Nebuchadnezzar was forced to know that someone higher was ruling. This one is “the Most High,” or “the King of the heavens,” YHWH God. (Daniel 4:34, 37) So, in a more important way, this heaven-high tree, comes to represent the supreme rulership of God, particularly in its relationship to our earth. YHWH God rulership was expressed for a time through the kingdom that he set up over the nation of Israel. Which is why the kings of the tribe of Judah who reigned over the Israelites were said to “sit upon YHWH God throne.” 1 Chronicles 29:23.

According to the scriptural account in Daniel chapter 4 the heaven-high tree was cut down. However, the stump was left, and bands of iron and of copper were put on it. This would keep the stump from growing until it was God’s time to remove the bands and let it start growing again.
The kingdom of Judah that Jehovah had set up eventually became so corrupt that he allowed King Nebuchadnezzar to destroy it, to cut it down. This happened in the year 607 B.C.E. At that time Zedekiah, the last king of Judah to sit on Jehovah’s throne, was told: “Lift off the crown. . . . it will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” That person who has the legal right is Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 21:25-27.
So if we know when “the appointed times of the nations” end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as king. According to Daniel chapter 4 these “appointed times” would be “seven times.” Daniel shows that there would be “seven times” during which God’s rulership, as represented by the “tree,” would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel 4:16, 23) In Revelations 12:6,14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to “a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time.” That is a total of 3 1/2 times. So “a time” would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, “seven times” would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to a Bible rule at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 the “seven times” equal 2,520 years.
We know already that "the appointed times of the nations(Gentle times) began in 607 B.C.E. So you take 2520 subtract 607 from it and you get 1913 but there is no such thing as a zero year so you add 1 to 1913 and get 1914, or if you wish, you can start counting from the date 607 B.C.E. and you come to 1914C.E. People know of things that happened in 1914. World War 1 happened which began a period of time that only has only gotten worse and worse and will continue to get worse until this Messianic Kingdom with Jesus as king destroys this wicked world of mankind we're living in that is ruled by Satan and Satan and his demons are imprisoned in the abyss. So it's very timely today that we pray for that kingdom to come and wiped out this wicked world of mankind we're living in.
Matthew 6:10; Daniel 2:44

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you think this text you have quoted tells me what God's Kingdom consists of AJ ?

Consists of? I'm not sure what that means QT.

Daniel 2:44 is telling us that the Kingdom of God is a government that will crush all failed human rulership under the devil's control, out of existence and replace them with his own kingdom, which consists of Christ as King, and his anointed 144,000 "joint heirs" who will be 'rulers and priests' for all of the Kingdom's earthly citizens for 1,000 years. (Revelation 20:6).....how is that not plain English?

My brother has explained the calculation as to the date of the beginning of the last's days (above)...but we have no way to determine when they end.....by all accounts, not too long now.

 

[quietthinker]

Consists of? I'm not sure what that means QT.

I didn't think so AJ....and it's patently evident from your posts....thats why you need to cobble together a whole lot of wild guesses about various scriptures.

Perhaps you think God's kingdom is the ability to interpret Prophecy? Perhaps its the desire to have a good bible discussion as you say in your signature? Perhaps it has to do with being a member of a particular club?.

Whatever else you think it might mean, as you have rightly said, you have no idea of what it consists of....that to me is telling!

Even from the viewpoint of a Government by man, if you didn't know what it consists of but sprooked a whole lot of yada yada as if you did, any thinking person would recognise delusion....or at least deception.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I didn't think so AJ....and it's patently evident from your posts....thats why you need to cobble together a whole lot of wild guesses about various scriptures.

Perhaps I should have clarified that statement QT...? I am never sure of anything you say.

The Bible is all one book....with one story that begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation. It has one author. Who needs to "cobble"?

Perhaps you think God's kingdom is the ability to interpret Prophecy?

Nope.

Perhaps its the desire to have a good bible discussion as you say in your signature?

Nope.

Perhaps it has to do with being a member of a particular club?

Nope....but you do need a congregation....you can't be a Christian all by yourself....and you all must agree. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Whatever else you think it might mean, as you have rightly said, you have no idea of what it consists of....that to me is telling!

Well, since I told you exactly what it consists of from my viewpoint....your lack of comprehension is telling to me.

Even from the viewpoint of a Government by man, if you didn't know what it consists of but sprooked a whole lot of yada yada as if you did, any thinking person would recognise delusion....or at least deception.

WOW...

and once again I present it in plain English, but apparently you do not speak it....shame about that.
I am seeing a whole lot of yada yada from you....so what should I think?

What are all those "perhapses"? Did I even suggest any of them? What part of.....'God's Kingdom is a government that will eliminate and replace all failed human governments'.....do you not understand? Seriously....?

A KINGDOM....is a "king" and the "dom"ain over which he rules....its not rocket science.
The King and his government rules from heaven, and the earth is his domain. (Revelation 21:2-4)

I think I'll just zip it and you can go and talk to people who understand you, and you understand them.....we apparently don't speak the same language. Having said that, I really haven't seen you interact with anyone on here who is on your wavelength at all.....why is that, do you think?

Are you just 'special'?

 

[quietthinker]

Perhaps I should have clarified that statement QT...? I am never sure of anything you say.

The Bible is all one book....with one story that begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation. It has one author. Who needs to "cobble"?

It is not one book AJ....we of late have taken a collection of writings (books) and bound them into one. Some is history, some poetry, some Prophecy .....written by folk who all had their own particular experience like Hosea or Daniel or John.

Having said that, I really haven't seen you interact with anyone on here who is on your wavelength at all.....why is that, do you think?

Are you just 'special'?

I see your defence in the end is to make it personal....in an attempt to invalidate what I say. I'm sorry, your cover is blown!

Ultimately AJ, you who claim to be 'The Kingdom' people and witnesses to Jehovah really don't have a clue....and that by your own words!

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is not one book AJ....we of late have taken a collection of writings (books) and bound them into one. Some is history, some poetry, some Prophecy .....written by folk who all had their own particular experience like Hosea or Daniel or John.

Either its the word of God or the word of men.....sounds like you think its the word of men.....that is your choice. (2 Tim 3:16-17) If "ALL" scripture was written under God's inspiration, then the compilation of the books he wanted to include in his instruction manual are also from his direction. You can think whatever you like.

I see your defence in the end is to make it personal....in an attempt to invalidate what I say. I'm sorry, your cover is blown!

I never thought I had a cover......I just have beliefs like everyone else here. It was an observation, just in case you imagined that I was the only one who couldn't follow your train of thought....

Ultimately, you you claim to be 'The Kingdom' people and witnesses to Jehovah really don't have a clue....and that by your own words!

If you say so......who told you you were the only one to understand what its all about? Are you the only one in your congregation? I'm beginning to think so....

I'm gonna have to put you on 'ignore' because these conversations are just a complete waste of time....

Bye QT.....have a nice life.

 

[quietthinker]

Either its the word of God or the word of men.....sounds like you think its the word of men.....that is your choice. (2 Tim 3:16-17) If "ALL" scripture was written under God's inspiration, then the compilation of the books he wanted to include in his instruction manual are also from his direction. You can think whatever you like.


I never thought I had a cover......I just have beliefs like everyone else here. It was an observation, just in case you imagined that I was the only one who couldn't follow your train of thought....


If you say so......who told you you were the only one to understand what its all about? Are you the only one in your congregation? I'm beginning to think so....

I'm gonna have to put you on 'ignore' because these conversations are just a complete waste of time....

Bye QT.....have a nice life.

Of course you won't see anything you don't want to see AJ, but here's the thing, it's you speaking of doing the ignoring, not me. You have threatened this before....and it's not because I'm rude or unkind, it's because you choose not to see the obvious.
Why am I pursuing this you might ask? It's on the off-chance you'll do some honest self reflection.