Luke 21:36 is Not a Rapture Passage

[marks]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

In whichever way you read this passage, this "escape", "to flee", is an active voice verb, which means that the one referenced is doing the action.

In the rapture, those "in Christ" who are being "caught up", this is the passive voice, they are being acted up, not doing the acting. Grammatically, these cannot be the same. If they were, these verb tenses would agree.

Being caught up in the rapture is a matter of being "in Christ". Fleeing the things to come is a matter of being found worthy, or of having sufficient strength, again, depending on your manuscript.

The one enduring to the end shall be saved. Those in Judea flee to the wilderness! Pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath! Pray that you have the strength!

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

In whichever way you read this passage, this "escape", "to flee", is an active voice verb, which means that the one referenced is doing the action.

In the rapture, those "in Christ" who are being "caught up", this is the passive voice, they are being acted up, not doing the acting. Grammatically, these cannot be the same. If they were, these verb tenses would agree.

Being caught up in the rapture is a matter of being "in Christ". Fleeing the things to come is a matter of being found worthy, or of having sufficient strength, again, depending on your manuscript.

The one enduring to the end shall be saved. Those in Judea flee to the wilderness! Pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath! Pray that you have the strength!

Much love!

Uhhhhh.........you forgot something. Definite rapture passage.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Rapture = believers dead and alive caught up into the clouds changed in a instance from mortal to immortal and taken to heaven with Jesus. Why fight this wonderful truth??

 

[marks]

Uhhhhh.........you forgot something. Definite rapture passage.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man

This does not change the other factors I've said. Will not Israel also be gathered to Jesus after the tribulation?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Rapture = believers dead and alive caught up into the clouds changed in a instance from mortal to immortal and taken to heaven with Jesus. Why fight this wonderful truth??

Do you know I think we will be raptured pre-trib? Only, not because of the above passage.

This is not a rapture passage either:

Matthew 24:37-42 KJV
37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Much love!

 

[Arthur81]

This OP illustrates the danger of becoming tied up with manuscripts and Greek grammar while ignoring the context. Read it in context -

“Be on guard so that your hearts are not weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of this life, and that day does not catch you unexpectedly, like a trap. For it will come upon all who live on the face of the whole earth. Be alert at all times, praying that you may have the strength to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” (Luke 21:34-36 NRSV)

‘Be on your guard; do not let your minds be dulled by dissipation and drunkenness and worldly cares so that the great day catches you suddenly like a trap; for that day will come on everyone, the whole world over. Be on the alert, praying at all times for strength to pass safely through all that is coming and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.’ (Luke 21:34-36 REB)

This is speaking of 'the last day', when Christ returns to resurrect the saints and then judge. Keeping in mind where we get our strength -

"Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed me, not only in my presence, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Phil 2:12-13 NRSV)

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

Well it can and is pertaining to both the Jews in the Church and those who repent after the Rapture. Jesus lays everything out and says this will come to pass, then shows them how to escape this "SNARE" but we both know Jews will escape this in two different ways don't we? Some Jews will be raptured just as we will be, whilst living, and some will be saved just before the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 shows which happens just before the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1. The they will escape by fleeing Judea, into the Petra/Boazrah area. So, both are no doubt seen as WORTHY to Escape because of repentance.

In Matthew the ENDURING unto the end is speaking about enduring until the end of ones life. As a matter of fact Matt. 24:4-13 is all a survival guide for the Disciples themselves, in vs. 6 we see Jesus says the end is not yet or is by and by (meaning the 70th week) and in order to get this point across Jesus painted them a picture via verses 7-8, showing them all the stuff that had to happen before the 70th week would come, he did this so they would not rush back to Jerusalem in 67-70 AD and be killed, along with their infant Churches. So, verses 7-8 are really just throw away lines tbh, notice he goes right back into telling the "DISCIPLES" that they were all going to die at the hands of false prophets (the Jupiter/Zeus types and the Oracles etc.) and not Christian false prophets, people confuse this also, thinking its END TIMES, its not. Lastly Jesus tells them they must endure until the end [of their lives] meaning do nit yield to the threats of death. Then in vs. 14 Jesus lets them all know 100 percent that they will never see the 70th week end, because he says THE END will only come when the Gospel has been preached unto the whole world, meaning India, China and the Scythians (Russia and the Stepp Mountains). Thus they knew 100 percent that the 67-70 AD events could not be Jesus, verses 4-14 are a survival guide for the Disciples, who needed to survive in order to get the Church off the ground.

 

[The Light]

Do you know I think we will be raptured pre-trib? Only, not because of the above passage.

This is not a rapture passage either:

Matthew 24:37-42 KJV
37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Much love!

Please feel free to explain why not.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

In whichever way you read this passage, this "escape", "to flee", is an active voice verb, which means that the one referenced is doing the action.

In the rapture, those "in Christ" who are being "caught up", this is the passive voice, they are being acted up, not doing the acting. Grammatically, these cannot be the same. If they were, these verb tenses would agree.

Being caught up in the rapture is a matter of being "in Christ". Fleeing the things to come is a matter of being found worthy, or of having sufficient strength, again, depending on your manuscript.

The one enduring to the end shall be saved. Those in Judea flee to the wilderness! Pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath! Pray that you have the strength!

Much love!

Well, this is a difficult matter for me, and I can't be dogmatic about it. 1st, I would have to say that any sense of the "Rapture" of the Church would not be associated with "escape to Pella," but rather, with angels being sent by Christ to gather his saints. I don't get the sense that Jesus here would be gathering up the unsaved, but rather, the saved.

That being said, at this point in Jesus' ministry, nobody is "saved" yet, technically. He hadn't yet been to the Cross. So who he seems to be addressing is, as you say, Israel. And he is specifically addressing an age-long ordeal that all Jews, believer and unbeliever, would have to go through once their capital city Jerusalem had been overrun. The believers would have added problems beyond the tribulation of dislocation into exile.

Also, Paul had to have gotten his belief about the Rapture of the Church from some Scriptural precedent. And the only one I can see exists here in the Olivet Discourse! Of course, Jesus said other things, though all of his other messages would also be directed primarily to Israel, believer and unbeliever.

So who is being gathered, the unbelievers--the lost sheep of Israel, or the remnant of Jews who had come to faith in Christ? I would have to say that it is the totality of Israel, believer and unbeliever, who are being referenced. Paul later indicates that when the angels gather God's People, the Christians, specifically, would be transformed and given new bodies. But in Romans Paul argued that even though only a remnant of Jews in the present age become Christians, in the next age, when Jesus returns, the entire nation would be regathered into a full nation. So Jesus may be speaking of the gathering of all Israel, believer and unbeliever, to make a full Christian nation.

Jesus, however, does not say all that about this great regathering--only that all Israel will be restored to being a nation in their land. So it's a very interesting question for me, and something I'm praying about. Thanks for raising the matter!

 

[marks]

This OP illustrates the danger of becoming tied up with manuscripts and Greek grammar while ignoring the context. Read it in context -

Are you suggesting we ignore the grammar of the speaker?

I suggest that this is simply what the Bible says. Why should we overlook this exactly? What about the context indicates to you that this should not be understood in the exact way it's written?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well it can and is pertaining to both the Jews in the Church and those who repent after the Rapture. Jesus lays everything out and says this will come to pass, then shows them how to escape this "SNARE" but we both know Jews will escape this in two different ways don't we? Some Jews will be raptured just as we will be, whilst living, and some will be saved just before the DOTL as Zech. 13:8-9 shows which happens just before the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1. The they will escape by fleeing Judea, into the Petra/Boazrah area. So, both are no doubt seen as WORTHY to Escape because of repentance.

In Matthew the ENDURING unto the end is speaking about enduring until the end of ones life. As a matter of fact Matt. 24:4-13 is all a survival guide for the Disciples themselves, in vs. 6 we see Jesus says the end is not yet or is by and by (meaning the 70th week) and in order to get this point across Jesus painted them a picture via verses 7-8, showing them all the stuff that had to happen before the 70th week would come, he did this so they would not rush back to Jerusalem in 67-70 AD and be killed, along with their infant Churches. So, verses 7-8 are really just throw away lines tbh, notice he goes right back into telling the "DISCIPLES" that they were all going to die at the hands of false prophets (the Jupiter/Zeus types and the Oracles etc.) and not Christian false prophets, people confuse this also, thinking its END TIMES, its not. Lastly Jesus tells them they must endure until the end [of their lives] meaning do nit yield to the threats of death. Then in vs. 14 Jesus lets them all know 100 percent that they will never see the 70th week end, because he says THE END will only come when the Gospel has been preached unto the whole world, meaning India, China and the Scythians (Russia and the Stepp Mountains). Thus they knew 100 percent that the 67-70 AD events could not be Jesus, verses 4-14 are a survival guide for the Disciples, who needed to survive in order to get the Church off the ground.

You have a very different way of understanding that passage then others I've heard. I want to think on that a bit . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Please feel free to explain why not.

Context. Those taken away are compared to those who were taken away by the flood. Therefore they are taken away in judgment, not rapture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, this is a difficult matter for me, and I can't be dogmatic about it. 1st, I would have to say that any sense of the "Rapture" of the Church would not be associated with "escape to Pella," but rather, with angels being sent by Christ to gather his saints. I don't get the sense that Jesus here would be gathering up the unsaved, but rather, the saved.

In the rapture, all who are "in Christ, and when Jesus comes in power and glory, all surviving of Israel, is how I see it. Then, the remaining gentiles will be gathered and judged righteous or condemned.

In the Luke passage, though, it's not speaking of people being gathered, it's speaking of people fleeing.

That being said, at this point in Jesus' ministry, nobody is "saved" yet, technically. He hadn't yet been to the Cross. So who he seems to be addressing is, as you say, Israel. And he is specifically addressing an age-long ordeal that all Jews, believer and unbeliever, would have to go through once their capital city Jerusalem had been overrun. The believers would have added problems beyond the tribulation of dislocation into exile.

I agree.

Also, Paul had to have gotten his belief about the Rapture of the Church from some Scriptural precedent. And the only one I can see exists here in the Olivet Discourse! Of course, Jesus said other things, though all of his other messages would also be directed primarily to Israel, believer and unbeliever.

I think Paul received his knowledge directly from Jesus.

This part at least was unknown before Paul wrote it:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The church itself was called a mystery also, meaning then there had not been prior revelation.

So who is being gathered, the unbelievers--the lost sheep of Israel, or the remnant of Jews who had come to faith in Christ? I would have to say that it is the totality of Israel, believer and unbeliever, who are being referenced.

My understanding is that all surviving Jews at the end of the great tribulation will come to faith when they see Jesus, if not before, and so when the are all gathered, all Jews are believing.

Paul later indicates that when the angels gather God's People, the Christians, specifically, would be transformed and given new bodies. But in Romans Paul argued that even though only a remnant of Jews in the present age become Christians, in the next age, when Jesus returns, the entire nation would be regathered into a full nation. So Jesus may be speaking of the gathering of all Israel, believer and unbeliever, to make a full Christian nation.

In the rapture, those gathered become transformed to have incorruptible and immortal bodies. In the gathering of Israel, there is no mention of transformation.

This passage,

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

indicates to me that they are not transformed, but continue to have children, raising up generations to come.

Jesus, however, does not say all that about this great regathering--only that all Israel will be restored to being a nation in their land. So it's a very interesting question for me, and something I'm praying about. Thanks for raising the matter!

I appreciate your reply!

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

Luke 21:36 KJV
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus didn't speak this to the church, which would have been through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles. Jesus spoke this to Israel, to whom He had been sent.

This is not a "rapture" passage, it regards escape, that is, to flee the things that will come to pass.

There is a manuscript variant here, some read, "and pray always, that you may have strength to escape all these things that shall come to pass".

In whichever way you read this passage, this "escape", "to flee", is an active voice verb, which means that the one referenced is doing the action.

In the rapture, those "in Christ" who are being "caught up", this is the passive voice, they are being acted up, not doing the acting. Grammatically, these cannot be the same. If they were, these verb tenses would agree.

Being caught up in the rapture is a matter of being "in Christ". Fleeing the things to come is a matter of being found worthy, or of having sufficient strength, again, depending on your manuscript.

The one enduring to the end shall be saved. Those in Judea flee to the wilderness! Pray that your flight not be on the Sabbath! Pray that you have the strength!

Much love!

Yes you are right thanks

 

[PinSeeker]

Rapture = believers dead and alive caught up into the clouds changed in a instance from mortal to immortal and taken to heaven with Jesus. Why fight this wonderful truth??

Well, because it's not wonderful enough, actually; it's portraying it as less glorious than it really is. He'll be bringing the Kingdom in its fullness to us and making the whole of creation new ~ heaven and earth will finally be one again. The victory will finally be complete. God never promises to remove us from trouble, but to be with us through it and to lead us in triumph over it... and ultimately to make it all go away. As He says through Isaiah:

"...the ransomed of the LORD shall return and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon their heads; they shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." [Isaiah 35:10]​

This is the general case with dispensationalism; none of the "truths" contained therein are absolutely untrue, but just not wonderful enough... made out to be too limited and therefore not as gloriously triumphant as they truly are.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Randy Kluth]

In the rapture, all who are "in Christ, and when Jesus comes in power and glory, all surviving of Israel, is how I see it. Then, the remaining gentiles will be gathered and judged righteous or condemned.

In the Luke passage, though, it's not speaking of people being gathered, it's speaking of people fleeing.

So you separate Luke 17 from Luke 21? In Matthew and Mark, these parts appear as a single Discourse! There is both "escape" and "regathering" in the same Discourse! Obviously, the "escape" is not the Rapture! But I don't know if the "regathering" is either?

I agree.

I think Paul received his knowledge directly from Jesus.

This part at least was unknown before Paul wrote it:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The church itself was called a mystery also, meaning then there had not been prior revelation.

The "mystery" is the fact Christ had not yet come to displace the Law of Moses. It was never intended to mean truth came without precedent. The International Church was anticipated in the Abrahamic Covenant--a covenant for *many nations.* The departure of the Law for a New Covenant is veiled but apparent after the fact in Jer 31.31.

My understanding is that all surviving Jews at the end of the great tribulation will come to faith when they see Jesus, if not before, and so when the are all gathered, all Jews are believing.

Yes, just as all Israel agreed to the terms of the Law of Moses, so Israel will be regathered into a full nation, which already exists, when they will at the Return of Christ subscribe to the Covenant of Christ. The nation, as such, will be saved--not evangelically, but provisionally, as a national entity. Instead of disappearing as a nation, or remaining just half a nation, the full nation will be restored, thus "saving" the nation from depletion or annihilation.

When Israel is regathered, all Jews in that nation will subscribe to the New Covenant, but not all will be saved in the evangelical sense. That remains for each person to determine individually, just as it was in Christian nations in the past.

In the rapture, those gathered become transformed to have incorruptible and immortal bodies. In the gathering of Israel, there is no mention of transformation.

Right, and this fact is what puts me in a quandary. Jesus speaks of the salvation of the nation as a nation. Jesus is, I'm sure, fully aware of the prophecy of Jeremiah concerning Israel's national restoration and coming to be under the New Covenant. But "angels gathering Israel back to the land?" Where is evangelical salvation in this? If angels are restoring people, wouldn't this be "spiritual salvation?" But if this is the restoration of a nation wouldn't this be "physical salvation?"

God really hasn't showed me anything on this yet, though I've been looking into it for years. But some answers have come to me only many years after the fact. It is up to the Lord what He wishes to show us. May we be found worthy to tell!

 

[The Light]

Context. Those taken away are compared to those who were taken away by the flood. Therefore they are taken away in judgment, not rapture.

Much love!

Context. The were eating and drinking until the day that NOAH ENTERED THE ARK.

Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Caught up is the rapture==

I Thessalonians 4:14-18​

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[marks]

Context. The were eating and drinking until the day that NOAH ENTERED THE ARK.

Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood.

Noah entered the ark with his family, the rest were taken away in the flood.

Matthew 24:37-39 KJV
37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

Caught up is the rapture==

I Thessalonians 4:14-18​

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be ""caught up"" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

No one argues that His glorious return ~ parousia ~ will be a rapturous event, a once-and-for-all seizing of what is His. But there is nothing there to indicate any kind of removal of anyone. We will go out to meet Him, as loyal subjects do on the return of royalty. This will not be "in secret," and from that moment, we will always be with Him, even through eternity. Just before that, though, will be the resurrection and the final judgment, and some, those resurrected to judgment, will depart obediently to... well, somewhere else... All sorrow and sighing shall flee away, and sin and death will be no more.

Grace and peace to all.