Mary, Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ

[Josho]

@Philip James

I don't have too much time to talk about it now, but I believe the woman Revelation 12 is Mary. Here is the chapter.

Revelation 12
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now first of all, a very quick summary, I find Revelations Chapter 12 amazing, because it gives a summary of Mary, Joseph and Jesus, how Herod wanted to kill the baby, and they fled to Egypt, there is also a message of Jesus's crucifixation/ressurection in there, and salvation, the victory, there's also a message about Satan falling out of Heaven and bringing down a third of the stars with him, it also has a message about how God delivers us from our troubles, but there is also a prophetic message in there of the end time.

It's just amazing how all of it is put together.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is no doctrine in The Church of “praying to saints or Mary” so you can stop being disturbed.

Respectfully, Mary

Then why do Catholics do it?

 

[CharismaticLady]

At the outset, sometimes wonder why God would punish Mary by making her listen to a billion prayers every day, even if she was capable of doing so. That does not sound like my idea of paradise!

The Bible condemns engaging in the detestable practices of the heathen nations who call upon the dead.

“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. . . one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so. Deut 18:9

God clearly detests those who communicate with the dead. Note that He is not saying He merely hates the sin, but the people who practice such things.

Yes, they aren't taught where all the holy traditions about Mary even started. If they knew, I wonder how many would still copy the pagans.

 

[Philip James]

and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Notice here, she is identified as the mother of all the living. The new Eve..

Peace!

 

[Heart2Soul]

I do agree and, if it was one thing I took from Catholicism, it was the very fact that the bible tells us she is blessed among women, and should be honored as such.
God found much favor with her.
I just do not pray to anyone BUT God through Christ.
God Bless

Let us all be knowledgeable of the fact that God is not a respecter of persons....we are all blessed and highly favored in the eyes of the Lord.....Mary was chosen....Paul was chosen as well as Peter....Elizabeth was blessed and highly favored being pregnant with John the Baptist who prepared the way for Jesus to enter in His ministry...
My point is that the salutation given by the Angel to Mary wasn't to elevate her above all others....it was simply to acknowledge her faithfulness to God and His favor was upon her.

 

[historyb]

Now first of all, a very quick summary, I find Revelations Chapter 12 amazing, because it gives a summary of Mary, Joseph and Jesus, how Herod wanted to kill the baby, and they fled to Egypt, there is also a message of Jesus's crucifixation/ressurection in there, and salvation, the victory, there's also a message about Satan falling out of Heaven and bringing down a third of the stars with him, it also has a message about how God delivers us from our troubles, but there is also a prophetic message in there of the end time.

It's just amazing how all of it is put together.

Agreed. Great post!

 

[historyb]

Yeah, the Bible says it was Samuel. So who to believe? God or historyb?

And yeah, I believe in a God that not only lets His children die, which includes the death of His only begotten Son! We all die!

Sad that your christ is dead, my Christ is alive as are all Christians who pass from this life to the next. But this is not for this discussion and should be placed elsewhere. @Josho I do apologize for taking your thread off topic

 

[historyb]

Point taken.
I would LOVE to discuss Mary - but the usual anti-Catholic cast of characters has cone out of the woodwork to hijack the thread again.

Yes and I gave into them and let them goad me. Now on to the study!

 

[Taken]

As soon as YOU can show me a verse that says Scripture is our "SOLE Authority."

I eagerly await your response . . .

Par expected Red herring deflection Tactic.

 

[Taken]

...because there isn't one....

They do not require Scripture to Verify what they claim.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Addy]

Hi Josho
I am a wee bit perplexed.
( therefore I will tag @Angelina and @Heart2Soul ...who are also Staff Members here on the site, so they can slap me down if I am doing wrong and tell me to get back in my box. )

I am asking myself why it is that a staff member , who I thought had accepted that position on here - to be a balance when two members are at loggerheads ...and to help to bring a peaceful atmosphere to the site...

So my question is...Why are you pushing the Mary thing..which I cannot find is either encouraged or taught in the bible at all?
Have you not right here started a thread that very well could bring anger, division and conflict.
BreadOfLife will argue his catholic point , but in all my years here I don't remember seeing him START a catholic thread!

I have noticed over the last month that you have posted on this subject a few times, yet I don't remember you ever making a point of it before.

Anything that draws our eyes away from The Father and His Son, is 'another- gospel'.

We ALL have a subject or a personally held belief, or doctrine...but most of us, if we know it will be controversial we 'choose' to hold it close to our chest and not make an issue of it.

So, I have to say I am surprised to see pushing this point...very nicely, and very politely , but nevertheless you are still pushing it.
I really hope it does not turn into a nasty thread , where people speak strongly rather than polity and risk getting themselves suspended for doing so.

For myself I must say that I am disappointed.

I am also confused as I have read this entire thread... and yesterday @joshno... you challenged me on my thoughts regarding the Word of Faith Movement/Prosperity Gospel... and seemed to present yourself as a supporter of that doctrine... and to back up what Helen has stated... it very much seems like you are supporting the Catholic doctrine of praying to Mary and the Saints. This is confusing.

I should also add that IF I have made a mistake and joined a site that is IN support of the above doctrines. (Word of Faith/Prosperity) and/or (Catholicism)...
I would ask that a staff notify me of this and I will peacefully simply withdraw my membership.

 

[Josho]

I am also confused as I have read this entire thread... and yesterday @joshno... you challenged me on my thoughts regarding the Word of Faith Movement/Prosperity Gospel... and seemed to present yourself as a supporter of that doctrine... and to back up what Helen has stated... it very much seems like you are supporting the Catholic doctrine of praying to Mary and the Saints. This is confusing.

What can I say, we don't all have the same views and I grew up hearing the "word of faith" which is why I have defended it every now and then, that's a topic for a different thread though.

And I don't believe Catholics pray to Mary but they ask Mary to pray for them and us, they ask Mary to intercede for them and us. I believe Catholics worship only one God, the LORD Jesus Christ.

Can one pray from Heaven? God knows the answer to that question. I would say so, if one can pray on earth, I think we can say those in Heaven can pray for us.

 

[Josho]

I should also add that IF I have made a mistake and joined a site that is IN support of the above doctrines. (Word of Faith/Prosperity) and/or (Catholicism)...
I would ask that a staff notify me of this and I will peacefully simply withdraw my membership.

To be honest, my views on these 2 topics are probably at odds with some of the staff. And the majority of members on these forums are from protestant denominations, so you will definitely find some other threads you agree with. My views on word of faith are also at odds with many of the members in these forums.

 

[Addy]

What can I say, we don't all have the same views and I grew up hearing the "word of faith" which is why I have defended it every now and then, that's a topic for a different thread though.

And I don't believe Catholics pray to Mary but they ask Mary to pray for them and us, they ask Mary to intercede for them and us. I believe Catholics worship only one God, the LORD Jesus Christ.

Can one pray from Heaven? God knows the answer to that question. I would say so, if one can pray on earth, I think we can say those in Heaven can pray for us.

Fair enough... and I will say that you have been kind and considerate with your responses... I am not judging you or complaining ... I was simply stating I was confused by your broad acceptance.
I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic... according to the Catholic church... I am an apostate and will go to hell... because I have walked away from the ONE true Church.
What I meant by not supporting... I meant if this is specifically a Catholic site or a Word of Faith Movement site... I would ask to leave... I have no problem with what others believe... It's all good. Thank you for answering.

 

[Addy]

To be honest, my views on these 2 topics are probably at odds with some of the staff. And the majority of members on these forums are from protestant denominations, so you will definitely find some other threads you agree with. My views on word of faith are also at odds with many of the members in these forums.

SWEET Joshno.... I do NOT have a problem with this at all.

 

[Josho]

To all reading this thread, people study the life of Apostle Paul, they study the life of Peter, so I don't see a problem with studying what the Bible has to say about Mary the Mother of Jesus.

 

[Addy]

To all reading this thread, people study the life of Apostle Paul, they study the life of Peter, so I don't see a problem with studying what the Bible has to say about Mary the Mother of Jesus.

I need to address this as a former Catholic... and as a Christian... YOU are right... Jesus loved his mother very much... and his mother was an amazing role model... Just think about how hard it must have been to RELEASE her son.. her precious son to the MOB... and to then watch him be tortured and hung upon a cross to die like an animal... JUST think about that... and she REMAINED SILENT... think about that... SHE REMAINED SILENT... Why?? Because she KNEW that JESUS was fulfilling prophesy... She knew... oh how she knew... and her soul was torn apart with silent grief.
SO... in that light... OH MY GOODNESS. However... with the above said... she was a human being... just like you and me... God gave her the GRACE and the COURAGE to follow through on HIS WILL. I have a special love in my heart for Mary @Josho ... It is a love that I hold dear as a mother myself... it is a love that I have kept in my heart because being a mother is so very difficult. I think Catholics bring remembrance and honour to a place of idolatry... All good saints need to be remembered... but in the way the Catholics idolize them... it becomes a problem.
So... you keep that in your heart Joshno.

 

[Taken]

ONLY those in Heaven are truly righteous, having been made perfect in Christ (Rev. 21:27).

Rev 21:27 says no such thing!

Uh oh...
Does that mean God chose the Virgin Womb of an "unrighteousness" Jewish woman, to Reveal Gods OWN Word?

Interesting.

Does that also blow out of the water, Catholic teaching...Mary was without Sin, and Unrighteous?

Oxymoron.

BTW- Rev 21:27 is about:
IT
IT is The Holy CITY of Jerusalem!
IT is brought down FROM Heaven and Located ON Earth.
Rev 21:2

And...

A person's Whose "NAME" Is recorded IN the Lambs Book of Life, shall Enter into "IT" (The Holy City of Jerusalem)!

And FYI...
The Lambs Book of Life, IS IN Heaven.

Rev 21
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

It is Obvious WHY you simply (reference) a Scripture opposed to QUOTING a Scripture...

QUOTING would reveal, what you reference, does NOT verify your claim.

Your Tactic is well known on this forum, as is your Deflection when challenged.

 

[Addy]

Why do so many people RESORT to accusing and name calling when in discussion??? WE are ALL CHRISTIANS HERE...
and we all deserve respect when being spoken to... otherwise these become no more than secular discussions. Our words
are always on display for NON believers to see and make judgements on. Just sayin.

 

[Taken]

To all reading this thread, people study the life of Apostle Paul, they study the life of Peter, so I don't see a problem with studying what the Bible has to say about Mary the Mother of Jesus.

Perhaps the problem is:
People supposedly "studying" cannot answer questions they are asked...

If Body's of Saints ARE in Heaven, Mary's BODY, particularly (Mary, being the subject of this OP) ...where can anyone go to Verify that is True?

Glory to God,
Taken