Meh

[bbyrd009]

You want to follow after men, you want to hear what you want to hear

we're talking Scripture here mjr, or at least i am

 

[bbyrd009]

"Why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord,' but don't do what I tell you?

 

[mjrhealth]

we're talking Scripture here mjr, or at least i am

Well ets put it this way, the catholics all agree there church is the right one and yet they are wrong, can be said for every religon on this earth, look at5 all the wars that where fought by men in agreement, yet they too where wrong, the only ones we need to agree with.

1Jn_5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

than you will be ok, of course that means you need a little faith, cant be done without it, and also means you will be outside teh box ands swimming against the stream, of religious folk. It aint easy.

 

[mjrhealth]

"Why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord,' but don't do what I tell you?

this bit

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[Truth]

Fortunately this is a non-christian forum, so it is an open thread for all peoples, believers and non-believers alike! I was Raised Agnostic, without any knowledge of God, man some of the things my 3 older brothers impressed in my mind!!! NOT GOOD!!! I lived out the worldly lifestyle, drugs, alcohol, what a ride!!! Until I found myself at 2000 ft, in a nose dive to death, it was over, and that is what I wanted! BUT as I was preparing to finalize my want, This Person stepped up and asked if she could Pray for me, you know the quiet type who was afraid to interact with a stranger, but later told me that a voice said to her, pray for this man, or I will not call on you again, Well she prayed for me, and about 3 weeks later I had an encounter with MY SAVIOR, Now Panda said that he had been a Christian for about 14 years, and that what he expected from God rely never came about. I lasted 2 years, and there just seemed to be a lack with the teaching, I could read and understand, but the assembly I was with had about 5 different clicks, you know, the different levels of wealth! Which to me was not what I read! So up until about 19 years ago I was like Panda, wondering what was Truth, then I heard a message that opened my eyes, and the desire to search out everything I had heard was overwhelming, So here I am today, still stubbing my toes, skinning my knees, and wiping the dirt from my face, and always getting back to my feet and continuing My walk with My Lord! Remember Panda in Your Prayers<> It Only took one for Me .
To God and Savior all Glory, AMN

 

[bbyrd009]

Well ets put it this way

why not put it in a reply to the Scripture we were talking about instead of alla time deflecting mjr

this bit

"bc i'd rather argue with Jesus" lol
ok

 

[mjrhealth]

why not put it in a reply to the Scripture we were talking about instead of alla time deflecting mjr

Which part, if you spoke English some times I might know what you are talking about. We are talking about mens lives here, and to you it just seems to be a big joke.

 

[bbyrd009]

Which part, if you spoke English some times I might know what you are talking about. We are talking about mens lives here, and to you it just seems to be a big joke.

i'm not laughing mjr.

should be pretty obvious? You have put yourself in the context of those vv, right.

you say "don't listen to ppl," but "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter will be established."
and two or three--or i can bring ten if you like--have been brought against your matter here, that you either can't or won't answer.
how will you stand in the fire, if you can't even answer them? Bc i don't think you will be allowed to change the subject then wadr

anything before this one would work fine i guess

 

[mjrhealth]

anything before this one would work fine i guess

Please specify so we are on the same page, im not good at guessing games.

 

[Project Panda]

Meh!

 

[Project Panda]

 

[Nomad]

Our morals that you think only come from your God himself is not true. Morality is something that has grown and expanded among many different cultures.

What you are describing is nothing more than subjective personal preferences, which are certainly no gauge of right or wrong, good or evil. Morality requires an objective standard, which does not exist in a godless universe. Again, an atheist who is concerned about morality is simply inconsistent with his/her professed worldview. Inconsistent atheists are actually proof of the following:

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them...

So my question to you is, are you sure your God is up to the moral challenge himself?

That's absurd simply on a philosophical level. God, the creator of all that exists, is the author and source of morality. There is no valid "challenge" to the one who is the very source of right and wrong.

 

[Project Panda]

What you are describing is nothing more than subjective personal preferences, which are certainly no gauge of right or wrong, good or evil. Morality requires an objective standard, which does not exist in a godless universe. Again, an atheist who is concerned about morality is simply inconsistent with his/her professed worldview. Inconsistent atheists are actually proof of the following:

Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them...



That's absurd simply on a philosophical level. God, the creator of all that exists, is the author and source of morality. There is no valid "challenge" to the one who is the very source of right and wrong.

Who says the universe doesn't have a creator who designed our innate moral sense? Now who says that this creator who made this sense in all animals is your creator? You've yet to provided evidence that your creator is in fact the one who designed this universe.

 

[Nomad]

Who says the universe doesn't have a creator who designed our innate moral sense? Now who says that this creator who made this sense in all animals is your creator? You've yet to provided evidence that your creator is in fact the one who designed this universe.

Uh oh... another logical fallacy. I answered your initial question and now you want to move the goalposts. Allow me to remind you:

"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without." Meh

Despite your attempt at a red herring, my answer remains the same. "With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview.

 

[Project Panda]

Uh oh... another logical fallacy. I answered your initial question and now you want to move the goalposts. Allow me to remind you:

"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without." Meh

Despite your attempt at a red herring, my answer remains the same. "With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview.

Honestly, you can't show in the Bible that it pertains information leading humanity to know that your God is our universe's creator. You have nothing, in fact your God struggles to know information outside of his own people's territory, like Australia, and yet he's the creator of the universe?

I mean come on! Let go of superstition & and be free.

 

[Nomad]

Honestly, you can't show in the Bible that it pertains information leading humanity to know that your God is our universe's creator. You have nothing, in fact your God struggles to know information outside of his own people's territory, like Australia, and yet he's the creator of the universe?

I mean come on! Let go of superstition & and be free.

Again, your initial challenge was:

"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without."

And my answer was:

""With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview."

I'm struggling to find a relevant response in your recent replies. Care to directly engage the topic at hand? Or is it just easier to change the subject in order to slip out from under the weight of my answer?

 

[Project Panda]

Again, your initial challenge was:

"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without."

And my answer was:

""With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview."

I'm struggling to find a relevant response in your recent replies. Care to directly engage the topic at hand? Or is it just easier to change the subject in order to slip out from under the weight of my answer?

I said "Meh" to hell.

 

[Nomad]

I said "Meh" to hell.

How does "meh to Hell" refute my answer to your question? Here it is again:

You said:
"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without."

I said:
""With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview."

Just to be clear, this is the "topic at hand" between you and I. You seem to have missed that.

 

[Project Panda]

Again, your initial challenge was:

"Name one thing you can do morally with God that I can't do morally without."

And my answer was:

""With God" you have an objective standard, which is binding on all. "Without God" you have nothing but ever changing subjective personal preferences, which are binding on no one. Again, 'morality' without God is part and parcel of an inconsistent worldview."

I'm struggling to find a relevant response in your recent replies. Care to directly engage the topic at hand? Or is it just easier to change the subject in order to slip out from under the weight of my answer?

I would think that someone who hold's a moral standard by belief alone is playing a risky game. Belief doesn't guarantee you an objective standard, because beliefs are subjective & experience based.

That's why so many Christian's hold different moral's & opinions, because it's all a matter of interpreting the Bible in light of personal revelation.
Christian's aren't the only one's who play dice with their moral's, anyone who holds a moral system by belief alone would be effected by the same dilemma.

Say I tell you homosexuality is wrong, is it wrong because you believe it's wrong? Or is it wrong because you know it's wrong? Well if you believe it's wrong, you have no evidence (It's just a personal belief)
If you know it's wrong, you'll be able to prove it's wrong based on factual information.

 

[brakelite]

I would think that someone who hold's a moral standard by belief alone is playing a risky game. Belief doesn't guarantee you an objective standard, because beliefs are subjective & experience based.

That's why so many Christian's hold different moral's & opinions, because it's all a matter of interpreting the Bible in light of personal revelation.
Christian's aren't the only one's who play dice with their moral's, anyone who holds a moral system by belief alone would be effected by the same dilemma.

Say I tell you homosexuality is wrong, is it wrong because you believe it's wrong? Or is it wrong because you know it's wrong? Well if you believe it's wrong, you have no evidence (It's just a personal belief)
If you know it's wrong, you'll be able to prove it's wrong based on factual information.

not just factual information, but a declaration from a reliable higher authority would also suffice you think?