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2nd Timothy Group

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There is no sense in arguing, but there is sensibility in finding the Truth. I will listen to anyone, but only if their Heart is right. When words of knife and stone start flying, Hearts cannot be right . . . and that is when I run (to find someone who wants to learn WITH me).

God, Bless us all with Your Holy Wisdom.
 
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HisLife

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It is not actually God's (the Father's) blood. It was Christ's blood, his Son, that bled on the cross.

There is one God 1 Timothy 2:5 , God was manifest in the flesh 1 Timothy 3:16

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 

APAK

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There is one God 1 Timothy 2:5 , God was manifest in the flesh 1 Timothy 3:16

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
So, was Yahshua 100% human with a human body, with a human spirit/soul as you and I, that was accountable to his Father? yes or no? thank you
 

justbyfaith

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Hi JBF...I was asking behold their theory but since you have chimed in let's explore your theory!

Sooooo your theory is to be born again one must Receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour! However Christ said to Nicademous we have to be born of water and the Spirit sooooo what Jesus said and what you are saying is at odds with each other.

None the less....thank you for your time!
Most assuredly, if you repent and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (i.e. believer's baptism), you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

You can also receive the Holy Ghost merely by asking (Luke 11:9-13).

Merely believing, you "should not perish" (John 3:16); whereas if you believe and are baptized you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).

You also "shall be saved" if you call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

If you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, He will give you the power to become a child of God (John 1:12). This is the "Spirit" aspect of "water and the Spirit".
 
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HisLife

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So, was Yahshua 100% human with a human body, with a human spirit/soul as you and I, that was accountable to his Father? yes or no? thank you

I gave you 3 verses, you can take them or leave them, Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit
 

APAK

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I gave you 3 verses, you can take them or leave them, Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit
So you cannot answer or you don't know how to answer my question then?

Those three verses you posted has zero to do with the perfect sacrifice of the human body, and spirit that shed his blood for you and me for his love to his Father and us. His grace was on display for all creation to see and witness, indeed.

If you want me to discuss those 3 verses of yours, let me know. I will gladly do that....and place them in proper perspective, in context and meaning.

APAK
 

HisLife

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So you cannot answer or you don't know how to answer my question then?

Those three verses you posted has zero to do with the perfect sacrifice of the human body, and spirit that shed his blood for you and me for his love to his Father and us. His grace was on display for all creation to see and witness, indeed.

If you want me to discuss those 3 verses of yours, let me know. I will gladly do that....and place them in proper perspective, in context and meaning.

APAK

I can Answer but I wasn't interested from the way you phrased it as an example We could start with What do you think is a human spirit?

I think It has everything to do with the perfect sacrifice because the only one that can be at righteous as God is God because he Is Holy
 

APAK

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I can Answer but I wasn't interested from the way you phrased it as an example We could start with What do you think is a human spirit?

I think It has everything to do with the perfect sacrifice because the only one that can be at righteous as God is God because he Is Holy
Well a human spirit is just that, it is human spirit, and not an angel spirit or God's Spirit. As Heb 10:12 says, but when this priest (or man) had offered for all time (permanent) one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God (his Father).
 

Marymog

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You can also receive the Holy Ghost merely by asking (Luke 11:9-13).
Oh goodness.....Who taught you that????

Putting that passage in context it has NOTHING>>>>>>>>>N O T H I N G to do with receiving the Holy Spirit merely by askingo_O
 

Marymog

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Merely believing, you "should not perish" (John 3:16); whereas if you believe and are baptized you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).
What's the difference between not perishing and being saved? I don't understand your point....
 

HisLife

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Well a human spirit is just that, it is human spirit, and not an angel spirit or God's Spirit. As Heb 10:12 says, but when this priest (or man) had offered for all time (permanent) one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God (his Father).

Most teachings I have seen mix the aspects of soul and spirit, But They are quite different, The Spirit is paramount to life or death, I would point to genesis When man was still clay And God Breathed on him and he became a living soul, When Adam fell he brought death into the world he didn't die physically right away But spiritually, there was separation from God, Ephesians 2:1–5 , Jesus restored this as exampled In John 20:22 When Jesus breathed on them and said Receive the Holy Spirit. Adam was made alive by the breath of God, and we, as new creations in Christ, are made spiritually alive

Hebrews 10:12 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Also On the Right Hand, The power of God
 

APAK

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Most teachings I have seen mix the aspects of soul and spirit, But They are quite different, The Spirit is paramount to life or death, I would point to genesis When man was still clay And God Breathed on him and he became a living soul, When Adam fell he brought death into the world he didn't die physically right away But spiritually, there was separation from God, Ephesians 2:1–5 , Jesus restored this as exampled In John 20:22 When Jesus breathed on them and said Receive the Holy Spirit. Adam was made alive by the breath of God, and we, as new creations in Christ, are made spiritually alive

Hebrews 10:12 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Also On the Right Hand, The power of God
I think you meant 1 John 4:13 instead of Heb 10:12, I previously quoted to you. Anyway, regardless, if you go further to the next verse, 14 we find that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world... in line and congruent with Heb 10:12.

The living soul of men has two basic components, the physical body as the vessel for the animated energy called the spirit, originally given to the 1st Adam as the breathe of GodAlmighty, and then passed on through every generation as a tainted spirit of fallen men. Now Christ the 2nd Adam, was made differently, born (conceived) of a human, woman, not from the ground, and again with the original untainted breathe or Spirit of God Almighty as was the 1st Adam, before his spirit became tainted, became impure..sinful. Christ's spirit maintained its purity to the cross and to his physical death.

Bless you,

APAK
 

justbyfaith

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Oh goodness.....Who taught you that????

Putting that passage in context it has NOTHING>>>>>>>>>N O T H I N G to do with receiving the Holy Spirit merely by askingo_O

Did you even read the passage?

Luk 11:9, And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:10, For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luk 11:11, If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12, Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 

justbyfaith

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What's the difference between not perishing and being saved? I don't understand your point....
It is not the difference between not perishing and being saved...it is the difference between "should" and "shall"...

One is iffy and the other is more absolute.
 

Marymog

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It is not the difference between not perishing and being saved...it is the difference between "should" and "shall"...

One is iffy and the other is more absolute.
Thank you. That makes sense.

So if one believes in Him they SHOULD be saved IF they continue believing and stay faithful to Him they will, in the end, have eternal life. (John 3:16)

But the one who believes AND is baptized shall be saved, but IF they stop believing (you can’t take the water baptism back) you will be condemned (Mark 16:16)

It seems they are both “iffy” to me!!! That isn’t how you see it?
 

HisLife

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I think you meant 1 John 4:13 instead of Heb 10:12, I previously quoted to you. Anyway, regardless, if you go further to the next verse, 14 we find that the Father has sent his Son to be the Saviour of the world... in line and congruent with Heb 10:12.

The living soul of men has two basic components, the physical body as the vessel for the animated energy called the spirit, originally given to the 1st Adam as the breathe of GodAlmighty, and then passed on through every generation as a tainted spirit of fallen men. Now Christ the 2nd Adam, was made differently, born (conceived) of a human, woman, not from the ground, and again with the original untainted breathe or Spirit of God Almighty as was the 1st Adam, before his spirit became tainted, became impure..sinful. Christ's spirit maintained its purity to the cross and to his physical death.

Bless you,

APAK

Ah yes thanks 1 John 4:13 I had just looked up and read 10:12 got them mixed up. A few things stick out at me Jesus wasn't made he always existed(1 John 1) What happened at the miracle of the virgin birth is He became Flesh (john1:14) A body prepared for him (Hebrews 10:5) Born of a woman he could be fully human in order to bear the penalty for our sins, conceived by the miracle By the holy Spirit He had no earthly father, I think the answer is found in The title of only Begotten Son his Father was God himself, when he came into the world he retained his divinity (Philippians 2:8) So he could be fully Man, And fully God at the same time, Full Man So he could become the savior of Men And Fully God so able to Be tempted like us but still be without Sin, Only God Is Good

As for Jesus Having the breath I would say Jesus Is that Breath Look at the language of Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.

But Simon Peter answered Him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:68.

God Said let there be light (gen 1), Light Came into the World (John 3:19), Jesus Was the true Light Which lighteth every man that cometh into the world (John 1:9)
 

JesusLovesYou

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Saint,

the way our carnal nature wants to interpret the "gift of salvation", is...

if we do good, we get good.
if we live right, we are accepted by God.
if we perform perfectly, we are going to heaven.
do good get good......do bad get bad.

So, see all that?
That is performance based Legalsim.
That is SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
"Self Righteousness", IS.....trying to make your own self.....right with God.
So, do you see how that fails, 100%?

We the born again will go to heaven, based not on ourselves, but based on the blood of Jesus.
Our justification, our sanctification, our redemption....our eternal acceptance by God, is only based on the Blood of Jesus.
Every person who is in Hell and every person who will end up there, have not come into contact with the Blood of Jesus.
And no, this isn't "holy communion"...
Im talking about REGENERATION from the fallen nature., and you can't get that in a CUP or from of Juice or a Cookie, or by WATER.
Believe it.

Do you want to go to Heaven? Then you have to be BORN AGAIN, and that takes God's Power and you dont find that in a cup, or in a water baptism.
You only find that IN The Holy Spirit.

All the born again have, and this is why all the born again are already with God, "in Christ" = and that is Eternal Life.
To come into contact with the blood of Jesus, means you are born again into spiritual UNION with God and Christ, which is Eternal Life.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets now do a quick overview of Salvation.. as its always good to be strong and sound in the fundamental of the Faith.
its a necessity that all true believers live in this verse.... Hebrews 13:9

Saint...For us to be accepted by God, we have to be as righteous as God, Himself.
It is impossible for us to be righteous, of ourselves, as we are all already fallen... we have already sinned.
So, God came to earth, as a man, lived a Holy life, died sinless, and this life, this righteous Life that Jesus Lived, is become our righteousness if we are born again... and our sin became Him when He was on The Cross.
Jesus is our sin bearer, who knew no sin, yet died for the sin of the entire world.
Our sin has been purged, it has been washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
Its as if we have never sinned.
That is God's perspective of all the born again.
Understand that God always sees the born again "under Grace", and "IN Christ".

Listen, hell is full of people who went there the last 2000 yrs, who were living a good life.
They were dedicated church members, gave to the poor, were responsible honest hardworking people.
They are in hell now.
Why?
Because Jesus said....>"you must be born again", and they were not.
"depart from me i never KNEW YOU", is only applicable to those who Jesus has never LIVED INSIDE< and they were never "ONE with God and Christ", and were never "In Christ".
So, that is ALL who were not born again, without exception , who died.

IN order to stay out of Hell, in order to not be this person... John 3:36 You must BECOME the "righteousness of God, in Christ" to be allowed INTO the Family of God.
If you are born again, then you are already IN the Family of God. If you are not born again, you are "Depart from ME< i never knew you" = you were never born again, and Jesus said .. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN... and He is not kidding, reader.

To become the "righteousness of GOD....IN Christ", is to be born again, is to have received "The GIFT of Righteousness".
The born again are "MADE Righteous" by the "Gift of Righteousness" that was obtained by Jesus's finished work on the Cross and is imputed, is charged to them, is BECOME the Born again.
The part of you, the Spiritual part of you that is born again, is the righteousness of God....its your Spirit become a "new Creation", made in the "image of Him"....who is God.
THAT, is where your born again Righteousness comes from...and without it, you are John 3:36.

And God said that "The Finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is the WORK that He accepts, which is why He asks you for your FAITH.
John 6:29
Did you ever think about that verse? Have you ever read that verse?
Its a biggie.
See....God does not ask you for your holy living to save you or keep you saved, because, you are not holy of yourself.
You are RUINED, Spiritually RUINED, cursed, and so """ you must be born again""
So, God accepts Jesus's Holy Life and Sacrifice, on your behalf.... in your place.
Its a substitution, a spiritual substitution, whereby Jesus became your sin on The Cross, and you have become "the righteousness of God, in Christ"......if you are born again.
This is why God asks you for your FAITH<... as He already has the Finished Work of Jesus on the Cross.
So, do you see?
You give your faith in Christ to God... and God gives you the finished work of Jesus on the Cross as your REDEMPTION.....as your BLOOD ATONEMENT....as your "Gift of Salvation".

Welcome to the Grace of God.
Saint,

the way our carnal nature wants to interpret the "gift of salvation", is...

if we do good, we get good.
if we live right, we are accepted by God.
if we perform perfectly, we are going to heaven.
do good get good......

It matters very much WHO defines "good". It seems as if everyone knows Ephesians 2:8-9, but not as many know what follows next (v.10). Also, James writes about the relationship between faith and good works in the second chapter of his letter, and Paul writes to Titus about the relationship between grace and works in the second chapter of that letter. Grace is the most awesome gift of God, but it was never meant as an excuse for living a life not pleasing to God.
 

APAK

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Ah yes thanks 1 John 4:13 I had just looked up and read 10:12 got them mixed up. A few things stick out at me Jesus wasn't made he always existed(1 John 1) What happened at the miracle of the virgin birth is He became Flesh (john1:14) A body prepared for him (Hebrews 10:5) Born of a woman he could be fully human in order to bear the penalty for our sins, conceived by the miracle By the holy Spirit He had no earthly father, I think the answer is found in The title of only Begotten Son his Father was God himself, when he came into the world he retained his divinity (Philippians 2:8) So he could be fully Man, And fully God at the same time, Full Man So he could become the savior of Men And Fully God so able to Be tempted like us but still be without Sin, Only God Is Good

As for Jesus Having the breath I would say Jesus Is that Breath Look at the language of Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63.

But Simon Peter answered Him, ‘Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:68.

God Said let there be light (gen 1), Light Came into the World (John 3:19), Jesus Was the true Light Which lighteth every man that cometh into the world (John 1:9)
HL: From Napier..I once went there with my folks for holiday from Levin, when we switched homes with another family. Many moons ago.....let me get back with you on your post... soon..thanks....APAK