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More about Salvation

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Saint,

    the way our carnal nature wants to interpret the "gift of salvation", is...

    if we do good, we get good.
    if we live right, we are accepted by God.
    if we perform perfectly, we are going to heaven.
    do good get good......do bad get bad.

    So, see all that?
    That is performance based Legalsim.
    That is SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    "Self Righteousness", IS.....trying to make your own self.....right with God.
    So, do you see how that fails, 100%?

    We the born again will go to heaven, based not on ourselves, but based on the blood of Jesus.
    Our justification, our sanctification, our redemption....our eternal acceptance by God, is only based on the Blood of Jesus.
    Every person who is in Hell and every person who will end up there, have not come into contact with the Blood of Jesus.
    And no, this isn't "holy communion"...
    Im talking about REGENERATION from the fallen nature., and you can't get that in a CUP or from of Juice or a Cookie, or by WATER.
    Believe it.

    Do you want to go to Heaven? Then you have to be BORN AGAIN, and that takes God's Power and you dont find that in a cup, or in a water baptism.
    You only find that IN The Holy Spirit.

    All the born again have, and this is why all the born again are already with God, "in Christ" = and that is Eternal Life.
    To come into contact with the blood of Jesus, means you are born again into spiritual UNION with God and Christ, which is Eternal Life.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lets now do a quick overview of Salvation.. as its always good to be strong and sound in the fundamental of the Faith.
    its a necessity that all true believers live in this verse.... Hebrews 13:9

    Saint...For us to be accepted by God, we have to be as righteous as God, Himself.
    It is impossible for us to be righteous, of ourselves, as we are all already fallen... we have already sinned.
    So, God came to earth, as a man, lived a Holy life, died sinless, and this life, this righteous Life that Jesus Lived, is become our righteousness if we are born again... and our sin became Him when He was on The Cross.
    Jesus is our sin bearer, who knew no sin, yet died for the sin of the entire world.
    Our sin has been purged, it has been washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
    Its as if we have never sinned.
    That is God's perspective of all the born again.
    Understand that God always sees the born again "under Grace", and "IN Christ".

    Listen, hell is full of people who went there the last 2000 yrs, who were living a good life.
    They were dedicated church members, gave to the poor, were responsible honest hardworking people.
    They are in hell now.
    Why?
    Because Jesus said....>"you must be born again", and they were not.
    "depart from me i never KNEW YOU", is only applicable to those who Jesus has never LIVED INSIDE< and they were never "ONE with God and Christ", and were never "In Christ".
    So, that is ALL who were not born again, without exception , who died.

    IN order to stay out of Hell, in order to not be this person... John 3:36 You must BECOME the "righteousness of God, in Christ" to be allowed INTO the Family of God.
    If you are born again, then you are already IN the Family of God. If you are not born again, you are "Depart from ME< i never knew you" = you were never born again, and Jesus said .. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN... and He is not kidding, reader.

    To become the "righteousness of GOD....IN Christ", is to be born again, is to have received "The GIFT of Righteousness".
    The born again are "MADE Righteous" by the "Gift of Righteousness" that was obtained by Jesus's finished work on the Cross and is imputed, is charged to them, is BECOME the Born again.
    The part of you, the Spiritual part of you that is born again, is the righteousness of God....its your Spirit become a "new Creation", made in the "image of Him"....who is God.
    THAT, is where your born again Righteousness comes from...and without it, you are John 3:36.

    And God said that "The Finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is the WORK that He accepts, which is why He asks you for your FAITH.
    John 6:29
    Did you ever think about that verse? Have you ever read that verse?
    Its a biggie.
    See....God does not ask you for your holy living to save you or keep you saved, because, you are not holy of yourself.
    You are RUINED, Spiritually RUINED, cursed, and so """ you must be born again""
    So, God accepts Jesus's Holy Life and Sacrifice, on your behalf.... in your place.
    Its a substitution, a spiritual substitution, whereby Jesus became your sin on The Cross, and you have become "the righteousness of God, in Christ"......if you are born again.
    This is why God asks you for your FAITH<... as He already has the Finished Work of Jesus on the Cross.
    So, do you see?
    You give your faith in Christ to God... and God gives you the finished work of Jesus on the Cross as your REDEMPTION.....as your BLOOD ATONEMENT....as your "Gift of Salvation".

    Welcome to the Grace of God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


    The blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:13, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 john 1:7).

    This means that the work of the Cross in your life will produce holy living....and if it doesn't, you ought to question as to whether you have been touched by the Cross (2 Corinthians 13:5).

    There is a false doctrine called gnosticism that teaches that our real selves are not our body but our spirit...and that therefore what we do in the flesh doesn't matter.

    We must, indeed, be born again...

    And there is a definite holiness that will be produced in the lives of all those who are:

    1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    @Behold, you would do well to back up your statements with holy scripture...

    Because you don't do so, you give the impression that your statements don't have any backing in holy scripture.

    Therefore, only those who want to accept the teachings of man will heed your doctrine...

    Or, those who have itching ears and are heaping you to themselves as a teacher to tell them what their itching ears want to hear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  3. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Holy living is not produced by the Cross.
    Righteousness is produced by the Cross.
    The Christ in the born again, bears fruit through them, and this is all His fruit. Its not actually the person's.
    Its The fruit of Christ, that is working through the person.
    THis is why Paul said..>"its is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me, and the LIFE I LIVE">>
    Got that part?
    The LIFE I LIVE...........Paul is explaining that its Christ's LIFE, and not HIMSELF.

    You, justbyfaith, need to question why you are on a Christian forum, teaching your carnal idea of self saving Legalsim, which is to teach that your good deeds prove what you think, means you are right with God.
    But you are not right with God, in your Theology, even if you are born again.
    All your theology does is point to YOURSELF.
    You are full of YOURSELF, ... you are the justbyfaith who is saving himself, and trying to get everyone else up there on that self righteous cross that you hung yourself on long ago.

    Now, take your time, and post more legalism, by pasting 120 more verse you dont understand.
    See you there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  4. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    ...Once Saved Always Saved.
     
  5. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Once born again, always born again.
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Here is what I think...

    You are preaching a gospel that is devoid of repentance and claiming that it is virtuous because the alternative somehow is self-glorifying.

    What you are not seeing is that I do not have any self-glory for the righteousness that God has imputed, and even imparted, to me...

    All the glory goes to Jesus Christ for the work that He has done in my life, in changing my life.

    And yes, holiness is produced by the Cross...

    Unless you have a specific verse that says otherwise.

    You also claim that I am preaching "self-saving legalism" something which I am not doing...in order to take the focus off of your denial of the reality of 1 John 1:8....wherein you deny that believers have indwelling sin; thus proving that you are deceiving yourself and that the truth is not in you.

    How strange it is that in denying that we have indwelling sin, you also subtly teach that it is not necessary to live a holy life as a believer...

    Here is where it gets sticky...

    Because it is not necessary. We have been forgiven of past, present, and future sins as believers and this means that the law no longer points the finger at us to call us sinners (I have taught this before you came on these boards; I know that you teach it to a certain extent also)...therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

    However, those who are truly in Christ Jesus have the law written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 5:5)...

    And therefore, while we will not be condemned if we blow it...

    It is going to be the defining characteristic of our lives that we don't blow it (except maybe on rare occasions).

    "If" anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (notice it does not say "when").

    Righteousness has been imputed to the believer and this identity belongs to the believer even when he blows it (Romans 4:5).

    Now that you have this unshakable identity in Christ, GO AND LIVE LIKE YOUR IDENTITY (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).
     
  7. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed its irreversible
     
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  8. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Wow! That's brilliant. There are people on this forum who need to take that to heart instead of just dismissing it. But you can set the truth before them but you can't make them believe. So I pray for all who read that post that the holy Spirit will quicken their spirits and open their eyes to the real truth so that they can go on to have that real personal relationship with Jesus and know the power of His Holy Spirit in their lives.
     
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  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Rom 6:23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Rom 11:29, For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
     
  10. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Once you're adopted you can't be unadopted. Adoption is legal and binding and those of us adopted into God's family will remain in His family.

    Romans 8:15
    The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

    Ephesians 1:5
    he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
     
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  11. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    What you said makes no sense.

    So, let me try to unravel it, for the benefit of anyone who is on this Thread trying to avoid Legalists like you.

    "Behold, my understanding of Repenting, that happens before we are saved, .. is the legalists idea that teaches.....you turn from sinning, clean up, promise to do right, and then God will accept you and save you".

    Well, thats a fail, justbyfaith.
    Once again.

    Look at this verse....>"to all who WORKETH NOT but Believe ON GOD . = who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY"....."their FAITH is accepted by God who then gives them His Very Righteousness"..

    So, notice,......... God is giving the new birth to the UNGODLY, not the "trying to do better".
    And what are the ungodly doing 5 seconds before they trusted in Christ?
    They are FULL OF UNBELIEF.
    This is the unpardonable sin.... John 3:36.....that God is about to FORGIVE, using The Christ's Shed Blood.
    This Unbelief is the SIN that is their eternal problem......not the Adultery, or the murder, or the drug addiction, or the porn addiction, or the egotism, or the bigotry. NO.....the sin they must turn from......is the sin of UNBELIEF.
    This is REAL REPENTANCE.........its to TURN from unbelief .....>TO BELIEVING.
    That is how you REPENT towards God..........as UNBELIEF is what you REPENT FROM......to be accepted by God.

    Your idea of Repenting, means to try to clean up your dirty rotten sins, and then God will take you and keep you.
    See, all legalists like you, the sinning confessing type, are hung up on this word "repenting", while not even understanding what >true repentance< is : that leads to God's Grace and Eternal Life.

    True repentance that God accepts is not to change you life, or promise to be a good boy or girl........no........True Repentance that God accepts as Faith proving, is to turn from UNBELIEF to BELIEF in Christ.
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    True repentance is turning from your wicked ways (Ezekiel 33:11-20, 2 Chronicles 7:14).

    Then the blood of Christ comes in and cleanses you from all sin (1 John 1:7)...it even sanctifies you (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) in the practical sense.

    If you turn from unbelief to belief in Christ, you will appropriate that blood and your life will be transformed...you will be regenerated and renewed from the inside out (Titus 3:5)...works will follow...but they are not the catalyst for salvation but the sure end result of a living and saving faith.
     
  13. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Are you in the old Testament times, Mr Legalist?

    Or are we in the "time of the Gentiles", "not under the Law, but under Grace".

    So, you are reaching back theologically, before the Cross was Given, when God is dealing only with Jew.....using an Old Covenant, that is no longer in effect, to try to chop down the Cross, Deny the Grace of God, and OMIT the Blood Atonement, and the NEW TESTAMENT.

    Thats you.
    Do you see yourself yet?
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The New Testament teaches us, in 1 John 3:9, that if anyone is born of God, they do not and cannot sin any more.

    Now regardless of the fact of whether that is hyperbole or not, it is indicating that those who are born again will begin living holy lives.

    Does God produce a holy life in a man against his will?

    How do you think a man will be motivated to live a holy life if he does not repent of living a lifestyle of sinning?

    For before we come to the knowledge of the truth, every one of is born dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1).

    Furthermore, if you go down further into that passage, you will find that those who are saved by grace do not any longer obey the dictates of the flesh and of the mind...they were by nature children of wrath; and are not any longer children of wrath by nature.

    The blood of Jesus does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  15. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting to note that the word for adoption in the time of Paul, under Roman law meant to place a son (daughter). It is the Spirit, the “the Spirit of adoption” that performs the act of placing the new believer in the spirit of Christ, as an adult into the family of the Father.

    Again, in the time of Paul under Roman law, the adopted child lost all rights and privileges in his/her old family and gained all the rights of a legitimate son/daughter in his new family. He/she received a new father and became the heir to his new father’s estate. He/she became co-heir with the other natural sons. The law regarded the ‘old life’ completely wiped out, null and void. All debts were completely cancelled. This adoption transfer event was carried out in the presence of seven witnesses under Roman law.
     
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  16. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    You quoted a verse that you dont live by, and do not even understand.

    You have told us, you have told me, that you sin, and confess it.
    Want to deny that now?
    So, why are you sinning and confessing ranting about 1st John 1:9, in 300 posts .... yet now you say that you can't sin because you are born of God.
    So, if you can't sin, why do you confess yours? Why do you live in 1st John 1:9 ?
    Why are you so dishonest?

    The issue is, your honesty and your theology are divided assunder.
     
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  17. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    The born again are the blood bought adopted.
    Paul says he is a bond-slave to Christ.........which means "under new ownership".
    The spiritual and eternal reality is that we are "bought with a price" and that price is God's Blood.
    The Good News is that this adoption creates us as "heirs of God", and "joint heirs with Christ".
    What does this mean?
    It means that all of God's "riches in Glory", which is God Himself as a Deity, is ours....it belongs to us because we belong to Him.
    Daddy's KINGDOM< is ours.
    Everything that God has and everything that God IS : = ours, if we are born again.
    We have FULL ACCESS to All of God, at all timee, or as we are told..>"come boldly unto the Throne of Grace"..
    That is an "open door policy" that lasts for eternity.

    God's blood, has made us at peace with God at all times. This is why we can enter in, at all times.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You appear to be trying to put me between a rock and a hard place.

    For if I say that I am perfected, I do not have the attitude of the perfect (Philippians 3:13-15).

    So I am not going to say that.

    I am going to however say that I have had consistent victory in my Christian walk for some time now.

    1 John 1:9 is indeed a promise for those who blow it...which is not to say that I necessarily need to lay hold of that promise every day that I am alive.

    As a matter of fact, I have not had to lay hold of it for some time.
     
  19. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    Based on the blood of Jesus your sins at your conversion are taken away.

    John 1:29 KJV
    ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    You will enter the holy city based on this:

    Revelation 22:14-15 KJV
    [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Because:

    1 John 2:3-4 KJVS
    ...hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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