More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

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Timtofly

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This is indeed a questionable matter, since we are told that Christ is Coming Back *with his saints* to establish his Kingdom on the earth.
In general, or a specific point in time?

Revelation 19 is not about the church glorified in Paradise.

The saints here are the tribulation firstfruits. They are the millennium firstfruits like the 12 disciples were the Messianic firstfruits of the last 1992 years. Jesus was on earth, as Messiah between His baptism and the Cross roughly 3.5 years. Of course Paul was chosen later "out of season".

So at the Second Coming, Jesus is on earth with the angels gathering the firstfruits, the sheep and wheat, after the church had already been removed. This is the last 3.5 years of the 70th week. Because the 7th Trumpet declares the 70th week is finished. Between the 6th Seal, and the 7th Trumpet, Jesus and the angels are harvesting the sheep and wheat as the final harvest of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

At the end of the 1,000 year reign all of mankind are harvested because they remain loyal to Christ instead of following Satan and numbered among Gog and Magog. They were never sinners nor lost, because they were the offspring of the sheep and wheat, the redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No one is born of Adam's dead corruptible flesh after the Second Coming in the Millennium. Thus no one is a sinner, until they deliberately blatantly disobey the law. Then they are dead in the LOF, with no escape ever. Like Adam's first act of disobedience, they are immediately dead. No one lives to be rehabilitated like Adam and Eve though. Sin will not enter the world, period.
 

ScottA

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Not so. He is coming in the future to glorify the earth and the redeemed and introduce the NHNE.
That may very well be your testimony and witness--but not mine (and you can not say otherwise without you being a false witness against me, for it is not your testimony, but mine that I give witness to).

It is my testimony and I am His witness, that "soon" after I cried out to Him, He answered and "quickly" came [again] into me and me into Him...just as He promised and as it is written. Which is not the first time He has come, but the second coming, for He first came 2,000 years ago.
 

WPM

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That may very well be your testimony and witness--but not mine (and you can not say otherwise without you being a false witness against me, for it is not your testimony, but mine that I give witness to).

It is my testimony and I am His witness, that "soon" after I cried out to Him, He answered and "quickly" came [again] into me and me into Him...just as He promised and as it is written. Which is not the first time He has come, but the second coming, for He first came 2,000 years ago.

If you think the curse has been lifted then you are deluding yourself. Dream on!
 

WPM

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And if you yourself deny salvation has come--let it be your own testimony, lest your curse be increased by the same measure.

That was not what i was talking about. Stop changing the subject. We were talking about the NHNE.
 

ScottA

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That was not what i was talking about. Stop changing the subject. We were talking about the NHNE.
You changed the subject in post #20.

Now you want to change it back? Fine. But that is not the tread topic either...so pardon me if I am not tracking wherever you bounce. Even so, I have addressed you accordingly.
 

WPM

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You changed the subject in post #20.

Now you want to change it back? Fine. But that is not the tread topic either...so pardon me if I am not tracking wherever you bounce. Even so, I have addressed you accordingly.

Not true. The subject of this thread is the intro of the NHNE. I should know: i started it. You diverted it.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Corruption will not continue forever. Thankfully, creation will be finally regenerated and freed from the curse in the future. When is that?

This earth will not be eliminated. It will be regenerated at the coming of Jesus. Multiple Scripture supports this. We see that in Romans 8:19-23, Luke 20:27-36, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and 2 Peter 3:7–13.

Christ is coming back to a perfect glorified regenerated earth to reign forever with the suitably attired glorified saints. But, it will not be sin-cursed, goat-infested, or death-blighted as Premils argue.

Acts 3:19-21

19 the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the the times of restitution
[Gr. apokatastasis or reconstitution] of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

“The times of refreshing” and “the restitution of all things” expressly coincides with the Lord’s appearing, thus proving the all-consummating nature of that glorious event.

The sense and meaning of the word apocatastasis here is ‘a restoration of things to its first state’ (or ‘to return to its former state’).

Webster's 1828 Dictionary says, “‘Restitution’ means ‘The act of recovering a former state or posture, the putting the world in a holy and happy state’.”

In everyday language it refers to a return to the original place. For example, the return of a ship to its home port; in astronomy it meant the cyclical return of a planet to the point where it was found earlier; in medicine it meant the return of a patient to health.

Whilst the Greek word apokatastasis is only found in Acts 3:21, the root word apokathistemi is found 8 times in Scripture. We see the restorative sense of the word in the story of the man with the withered hand in Matthew 12:13, where it says, “it was restored (apokathistemi) whole, like as the other.”

Likewise, in Mark 8:25 the blind man received his sight it says, “he was restored (apokathistemi), and saw every man clearly.”

This passage is clear in its instruction: “the heaven must receive (or dechomai, or detain)” Jesus Christ “until the times of restitution of all things.”

Jesus isn’t going anywhere until the restoration of fallen creation!

2 Peter 3:7 also confirms, “the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

The destruction of our current earth coincides with the fiery judgment of the wicked at the Lord’s return. The purpose of this current earth being destroyed by fire at the same time as the wicked is to purge this earth of every vestige of the bondage of corruption and purify it of all sin and unrighteousness. It will indeed be a perfect glorified state. The new earth is a place that is completely liberated from all unrighteousness.

After outlining the awful judgment that will fall upon fallen creation, Peter reassures the believer, Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).

He's not coming back to a corrupt earth plagued by sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, disease and decay, war and terror, Satan and his devils as Pretribulationalists promote.

Peter shows that whilst the day of the revelation of Christ is an awful day of woe for the wicked; it is a day of joy and blessing for the righteous.

God’s purpose is that the entire creation will be regenerated. That is, the whole universe will be freed from the curse of corruption and degeneration. His intent is to bring a whole new order when He returns that will be marked by righteousness and eternality. A new regenerated creation will welcome a freshly perfected redeemed people. We are therefore looking at universal regeneration.

1 Peter 4:4-7 says, “they (the wicked) think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.”

After telling us that “the end of all things is at hand” the Scriptures admonish us to be “sober” and “watch.” Why does it tell us to do that? Because we will be here right up until “the end of all things is at hand.”

Peter is piggybacking on Jesus constant admiration to watch and be ready. Paul does the same. He instructs us to be sober and not drunk and when that day arrives.

Peter continues in verse 13 of the same passage, whilst speaking of that great final event, by encouraging the believers, saying, “rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”

This passage therefore instructs God’s people to be “sober, and watch unto prayer” in regard to its approach, but also to anticipate it as a time when they will “be glad also with exceeding joy.”

Peter reinforces the impending nature of the general judgment and the judgment of the wicked by telling us that they “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.” Christ is indeed “ready” to judge the wicked at His return.
You should read the OT minor prophets more. The millennial kingdom will have desolate places and gentile nations will know drought and famine if they do not send a rep annually to Jerusalem and join in the feast of tabernacles.

And no Jesus does not reign forever:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28

King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That word "till" tells us Jesus does not reign forever, but only until all enemies are defeated.
 
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ScottA

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Not true. The subject of this thread is the intro of the NHNE. I should know: i started it. You diverted it.
Perhaps you should go change the title before anyone else sees that your title and your opening statement is rather a rant on amillennialism.

But hey, your thread, your departure--whatever.
 

Truth7t7

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In short, not enough here to determine, strictly, that resurrection of both righteous and wicked are simultaneous, particularly in view of the explicit description in Rev 20.
Randy you live in denial of the biblical truth below that has been presented to you "Several Times"

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
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WPM

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Perhaps you should go change the title before anyone else sees that your title and your opening statement is rather a rant on amillennialism.

But hey, your thread, your departure--whatever.

What are you talking about? Quite the opposite!

What do you believe? Are you Amil? Are your Full Preterist?
 

FactsPlease

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"Resurrection To Damnation" is those being given a second chance, and failing it. No 'burning in Hell'.
 

Timtofly

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You did not even read what I wrote, unless you are deliberately trying to twist what I am saying.

I only read the 1st few lines and stopped. I rarely read your post. They are so contradictory. You do not even know that Amils hold that Jesus is in heaven during the ongoing fulfilment of Revelation 20. He does not come back to till second coming (after Satan's little season) to glorified the earth and the redeemed.
Then you should not have said Jesus is not going anywhere until the restoration is over. That is misleading all on your own.

I never twisted anything.

Obviously you have no rebuttal to Scripture that proves you wrong.
 

Timtofly

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Not so. He is coming in the future to glorify the earth and the redeemed and introduce the NHNE.
Not so. You claim He is not on earth during the restoration. Do you have a firm grasp on where Jesus is at the Second Coming?
 

ScottA

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What are you talking about? Quite the opposite!

What do you believe? Are you Amil? Are your Full Preterist?
Okay...let's try this again.

The words from God are not always what they seem but are rather spiritually discerned.

"
A thousand years" spiritually, is not a millennium..."God is the same yesterday, today, and forever", and the matter of Jesus' reign is also referred to as a "day." Time is an illusion. It means something different with men and this world than it does with God. Why then would you or anyone take up the ways of this world to define what is of God? Such is the foolishness of the natural man.

In the correct context then of not actually being defined by "years", the term "a thousand years" is rather a [worldly] figure of speech used by God that otherwise needs to be spiritually discerned. To be clear, none of the things of God actually occur on a timeline, except in the revealing of them to men who live in their own time on that would-be timeline, the sum total of which is not of the kingdom and is passing away. What then should such a worldly term mean to Him of whom it means nothing? If you are a father yourself, perhaps to you a better figure of speech would be "Until I say so." Is that not true of every word of God--that it is not according to what we perceive it to mean, but according to what He means? Of course. It is for that reason that I have told you, it does not actually mean "a thousand years."--because it is a matter of God and not so much of men, and certainly not according to our terms, but according to His.

A better way to understand the term "a thousand years", is "in the fulness of time"...which is also used in the scriptures, and again, is not actually a matter of time either--except to men who walk therein. But again, remember, it is a vapor, and passing away, and not the terms of God Himself and the thing spoken of, but rather what it may appear to be according to what is experienced by those living within the illusion of time created for the gentle revealing of all truth from God--lest we be destroyed.

Back to your question then--correctly stated: Are you Afulness of time? Are you Full Prefulness of time?

No, neither...but I am rather of what is spiritually discerned. Which, of course changes the understanding of all things, including the reign or return of Jesus.

Therefore, take out the time component of what is written for God's perspective and the actual truth by His terms, and then and only then consider the times for what it may appear to be among the terms set for men to experience it. But the Godly perspective and way of thinking should be increasing, while the worldly way and perspective should be decreasing. Such is the necessary "renewing of your mind" spoken of by Paul.
 
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WPM

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Okay...let's try this again.

The words from God are not always what they seem but are rather spiritually discerned.

"
A thousand years" spiritually, is not a millennium..."God is the same yesterday, today, and forever", and the matter of Jesus' reign is also referred to as a "day." Time is an illusion. It means something different with men and this world than it does with God. Why then would you or anyone take up the ways of this world to define what is of God? Such is the foolishness of the natural man.

In the correct context then of not actually being defined by "years", the term "a thousand years" is rather a [worldly] figure of speech used by God that otherwise needs to be spiritually discerned. To be clear, none of the things of God actually occur on a timeline, except in the revealing of them to men who live in their own time on that would-be timeline, the sum total of which is not of the kingdom and is passing away. What then should such a worldly term mean to Him of whom it means nothing? If you are a father yourself, perhaps to you a better figure of speech would be "Until I say so." Is that not true of every word of God--that it is not according to what we perceive it to mean, but according to what He means? Of course. It is for that reason that I have told you, it does not actually mean "a thousand years."--because it is a matter of God and not so much of men, and certainly not according to our terms, but according to His.

A better way to understand the term "a thousand years", is "in the fulness of time"...which is also used in the scriptures, and again, is not actually a matter of time either--except to men who walk therein. But again, remember, it is a vapor, and passing away, and not the terms of God Himself and the thing spoken of, but rather what it may appear to be according to what is experienced by those living within the illusion of time created for the gentle revealing of all truth from God--lest we be destroyed.

Back to your question then--correctly stated: Are you Afulness of time? Are you Full Prefulness of time?

No, neither...but I am rather of what is spiritually discerned. Which, of course changes the understanding of all things, including the reign or return of Jesus.

Therefore, take out the time component of what is written for God's perspective and the actual truth by His terms, and then and only then consider the times for what it may appear to be among the terms set for men to experience it. But the Godly perspective and way of thinking should be increasing, while the worldly way and perspective should be decreasing. Such is the necessary "renewing of your mind" spoken of by Paul.

I hope you understand what you are writing. It sounds like gibberish to me.
 

ScottA

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I hope you understand what you are writing. It sounds like gibberish to me.
Yes, that's the problem...the things of God are as foreign to mankind and this world as heaven is different than earth.

The good news is, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Change, therefore, is inevitable...just as it is with salvation.
 

WPM

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Yes, that's the problem...the things of God are as foreign to mankind and this world as heaven is different than earth.

The good news is, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Change, therefore, is inevitable...just as it is with salvation.

Christ is reigning over a fallen earth now. When He comes again (at the last trumpet) He will rescue His elect and destroy His enemies. He will perfect us, and all creation. Both will be glorified. This is when the curse is lifted. Then we will have the general resurrection/judgment. This is when "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” I recognize that Full Preterists do not believe that. That is because they are heretics.