Moses Law : is NOT made for Christians #3

[PeterAndroz]

Yes, I agree Scripture teaches that believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13) and that this sealing is “unto the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30). That speaks to God’s preserving work in salvation.

But sealing does not cancel the New Testament’s repeated warnings and calls to continue in faith, abide in Christ, and not fall away (Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:14; John 15:6). Those are addressed to real believers, not hypothetical ones.

And bringing it back to the point we were actually discussing: this still doesn’t support the idea of isolating Paul into a separate “Paul-only” doctrinal system. The same Paul who speaks of sealing also insists on one gospel, one foundation, and one faith shared by all the apostles (Eph. 4:4–5; 1 Cor. 3:11; Gal. 1:8–9).

So the question remains the same: are we reading Paul in harmony with the rest of Scripture or using selective texts to override it?

""""That speaks to God’s preserving work in salvation.""" < Eph 4:30
Please state the verses >>>from Paul<<<< that you believe confirms your above claim.

 

[faithhopecharity]

The Bible does not teach Paul wrote Hebrews.
Rom to Philemon = Paul
...
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
To be saved & sealed requires ONLY faith/belief/trust in the death/burial/resurrection of Christ
....
What are the 'performance' conditions for the above ?
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

saved does not imply full eternal salvation in glory but a part of the process of salvation

we have no participation in some parts "not only of works" other parts we are required to participate and practice good works

and there are many kinds of works
some fruitful some unfruitful

((unfruitful works))

(works of the law)

Refer to the works of the mosaic covenant

(works of the flesh)

Listed in Gal 5:19-21 & Eph 5:3-5
these cause the loss of grace and the bar us from salvation in the kingdom of God. the unfruitful works of darkness

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. eph 5:6

(dead works) or (works alone) or (natural works)

Works that are good in and of themselves but are not in union with Christ and grace and have power to accomplish perseverance unto eternal salvation! unfruitful works

Apart from Christ: NOTHING! Jn 15:5

((fruitful works))

Living works or deeds of rightousness!

(living works) (faith & works)

Supernatural good works (gifts of God) accomplished in union with Christ and empowered by His grace with perseverance to the end of our life unto eternal salvation!

fruitful works! Lk 3:9 Jn 15:5 bear fruit

2 cor 9: And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

With Christ & empowered by grace:
I CAN DO ALL THINGS! Phil 4:13

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Living works:
1 pet 2:15-16 good works
1 pet 2:20 acceptable to God
1 pet 2:21-22 suffer as Christ suffered

righteousness implies & requires acts (volition) of righteousness
just deeds unto faithfulness in the new covenant!
mt 3:15
mt 10:22
mt 25
mt 6:33
mt 7:7
mt 26:41
mt 7:14
Lk 1:75
acts 10:35
rom 3:21
rom 5:21
rom 6:18
1 tim 6:11
1 tim 2:22
2 tim 3:16
heb 11:33
2 pet 2:21
1 Jn 2:29
1 Jn 3:7
1 pet 2:24



mt 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Practices)

Luke 1:75
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
(acts / deeds)

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: (works of the flesh) but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (living works of righteousness)

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, (works of the flesh) or of obedience unto righteousness? (living works of righteousness)

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; (works of the flesh) even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. (living works of righteousness)

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (living works of righteousness)

1 tim 6: 11-14

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(Living works of righteousness)

deeds rewarded with eternal salvation! Heb 11:6 God is a rewarder of those who seek Him!

mt 5:7 blessed are the merciful they shall receive mercy

mt 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

(see God =eternal salvation)

mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

(life = eternal salvation)

mt 11:28-29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

(rest for our souls = eternal salvation)

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Yes, I agree Scripture teaches that believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13) and that this sealing is “unto the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:30). That speaks to God’s preserving work in salvation.

But sealing does not cancel the New Testament’s repeated warnings and calls to continue in faith, abide in Christ, and not fall away (Col. 1:23; Heb. 3:14; John 15:6). Those are addressed to real believers, not hypothetical ones.

And bringing it back to the point we were actually discussing: this still doesn’t support the idea of isolating Paul into a separate “Paul-only” doctrinal system. The same Paul who speaks of sealing also insists on one gospel, one foundation, and one faith shared by all the apostles (Eph. 4:4–5; 1 Cor. 3:11; Gal. 1:8–9).

So the question remains the same: are we reading Paul in harmony with the rest of Scripture or using selective texts to override it?

the seal is baptism!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

The Bible does not teach Paul wrote Hebrews.
Rom to Philemon = Paul
...
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
To be saved & sealed requires ONLY faith/belief/trust in the death/burial/resurrection of Christ
....
What are the 'performance' conditions for the above ?
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

more

Faith Alone? & Christ did it all, nothing for us to do?

Perpetual faith Jn 3:16 1 Jn 5:13
faith, hope, charity 1 cor 13:13
fruits of repentance mt 3:8
2 cor 7:10
fruits of righteousness phil 1:11
deeds of righteousness Lk 1:75
acts 10:35
merciful receive mercy mt 5:7
pure of heart mt 5:8
ask seek knock mt 7:7
watch and pray mt 26:41 Lk 21:36
narrow road to life mt 7:14 Ps 23:3
bear fruit Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6
grow in grace 2 pet 3:18
keep commands rev 14:12 mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17
suffer with Christ and for His sake
phil 1:29 Lk 9:23
walk, sow, live by the Spirit
rom 8:1 rom 8:13
gal 6:7-8 1 pet 2:24
repentance conversion surrender
acts 3:19 1 pet 3:12
faith & patience heb 6:12
faith, patience, good works rev 2:19
endure to the end mt 10:22
overcome rev 2:10


Created to Know, Love, & Serve God

not faith alone!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Simple. The thief on the cross believed and confessed. He was saved.

and humbled himself Lk 18:13-14
and he prayed mt 7:7
and repentance conversion acts 3:19
and accepted his suffering phil 1:29
died a martyr Mt 16:25 (baptism of blood)

if you want to make a standard of it make the whole standard

thks

 

[Angelina]

""""That speaks to God’s preserving work in salvation.""" < Eph 4:30
Please state the verses >>>from Paul<<<< that you believe confirms your above claim.

@PeterAndroz, Paul repeatedly speaks of God's preserving work in believers:

Philippians 1:6, "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ."
Romans 8:30, Those whom God justified, He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 1:8–9, Christ "shall also confirm you unto the end."
2 Timothy 1:12, Paul says God is "able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
1 Thessalonians 5:23–24, "Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it."

So when I said sealing speaks of God's preserving work, I was not basing that on Ephesians 4:30 alone. Paul consistently teaches God's faithfulness in keeping His people.

My question remains: how do you reconcile those promises with Paul's own warnings about continuing in the faith (Col. 1:23)?

 

[faithhopecharity]

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd be dangerous to the Devil, but because you dont, you are just one more religious tool whom He uses, according to his will, (as Paul teaches) .... while you dont realize it. @Gray_Joy .

Now, Take it from Jesus, who said it was "Moses Law".

Jesus said......""Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law (of moses)."

Also, if you own a bible @Gray_Joy , then notice that the Law is found in the 5 books of : Moses., and that is the OLD COVENANT.

So, here is an update for you and for the other religious fanatics who are chasing "commandments and law"..... = "Moses" law" is NOT God's Law.

Also... = Christians under the New Covenant are not to chase "the law of Moses".........they are to Embrace the Grace of God., that is their Salvation.

Now.....What is God's Law?

A.) Its "The Righteousness of Faith".......its "Grace through Faith". Its.."According to God's MERCY He saved us, without works of (moses) law".

Also.......an UNbeliever is still "under (Moses) law"..... and there are 613 of them, and of course the 10 commandement are just a part.

= Whereas the CHRISTiand is "not under (moses) law< but under GOD's GRACE".

See that GRACE of God?
That is how you may define "God's Law" and be correct. @Gray_Joy

why act from a motive of pride presumption & arrogance, if its a free gift we have nothing to do with it, why any self importance? why exalt thyself, nothing personal just thinking out loud.

important verses:
mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Lk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

1 Peter 5:5
Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

thks

 

[Angelina]

the seal is baptism!

thks

@faithhopecharity Ephesians 1:13 says believers were sealed "with the Holy Spirit of promise" after hearing and believing the gospel. The text identifies the Holy Spirit as the seal, not water baptism.

Baptism is important, but in Ephesians Paul explicitly says the sealing is by the Holy Spirit.

 

[faithhopecharity]

Listen little one........you dont "walk in the spirit" with your feet or your self effort.

dare I ask? how do we walk in the spirit?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

You are talking just to hear your own voice.

So do this for us....... @faithhopecharity .

List 5 "works of Rightesousness" that you can do today, that an unbeliever can't do.

So, when you name, Prayer, and Giving , and loving others........and this is also something that an UNBELIEVER Can do......
When you recognize this, you might just wake up out of your substantial theological ignorance, and then God may show you a few things..
Till then "you got nothing".
Nothing at all, but opinions and guessing, and verses you can post, that you can't even explain.
And we all see your type constantly joining this forum and logging in.........just one more religious pretender, pretending to know something about God and His word.

ok

Perpetual faith Jn 3:16 1 Jn 5:13
faith, hope, charity 1 cor 13:13
fruits of repentance mt 3:8
2 cor 7:10
fruits of righteousness phil 1:11
deeds of righteousness Lk 1:75
acts 10:35
merciful receive mercy mt 5:7
pure of heart mt 5:8
ask seek knock mt 7:7
watch and pray mt 26:41 Lk 21:36
narrow road to life mt 7:14 Ps 23:3
bear fruit Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6
grow in grace 2 pet 3:18
keep commands rev 14:12 mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17
suffer with Christ and for His sake
phil 1:29 Lk 9:23
walk, sow, live by the Spirit
rom 8:1 rom 8:13
gal 6:7-8 1 pet 2:24
repentance conversion surrender
acts 3:19 1 pet 3:12
faith & patience heb 6:12
faith, patience, good works rev 2:19
endure to the end mt 10:22
overcome rev 2:10

an unbeliever can perform these works but they are not fruitful, or meritorious, being apart from Christ they can do nothing, nothing of value, nothing spiritual and supernatural!

Jn 15:5

apart from Christ?

NOTHING!

phil 4:13

Union with Christ?

ALL THINGS!

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


By the grace of justification received by faith and baptism we have union with God thru Christ, in the communion of saints, empowered by grace and life in the spirit to attain to eternal salvation on glory!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

And you are making us suffer with your theological ignorance.
Is that what you mean ? @faithhopecharity




Picking up a Cross, does not make you a Christian.
What makes you a Christian is that Jesus died on The Cross for you, so that you can believe this and become one.



Are you a Jew?
Jesus was talking to Jews, in your verse...who were under the OLD Covenant.

Whereas Christians are NOT........and they are told that they "will have tribulation" in this World, and you dont have to look for it, as it will come automatically, if you are trying to serve God FAITHFULLY.



Jesus explains in John 14:6, that He is that narrow Gate.........because Jesus is the "only WAY to the Father".
So, by entering JESUS, as "in Christ"....born again, you have gone through the Gate, = and Moses Law, can't get you there, readers.

there is only one savior! one new covenant for all men unto eternal salvation!

perhaps you will agree that it refers to Christ who by His life death (blood) and resurrection obtained the glories of heaven?

thks

 

[Jack]

and humbled himself Lk 18:13-14
and he prayed mt 7:7
and repentance conversion acts 3:19
and accepted his suffering phil 1:29
died a martyr Mt 16:25 (baptism of blood)

if you want to make a standard of it make the whole standard

thks

But you're not even baptize correctly. You're not saved? Are all who are baptized in Jesus' Name unsaved? You've already admitted that water baptism is not required for salvation!

 

[faithhopecharity]

And So is..""""And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.""

(that is found in Gen 3).

what does it mean?

and if ez 36 refers to the new birth in the new covenant by baptism and the spirit Jn 3:5 refers to baptism

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

the false doctrine that faith alone!
or that Christ did it all!

Faith Alone? or Christ did it all, nothing for us to do?

Perpetual faith Jn 3:16 1 Jn 5:13
faith, hope, charity 1 cor 13:13
fruits of repentance mt 3:8
2 cor 7:10
fruits of righteousness phil 1:11
deeds of righteousness Lk 1:75
acts 10:35
merciful receive mercy mt 5:7
pure of heart mt 5:8
ask seek knock mt 7:7
watch and pray mt 26:41 Lk 21:36
narrow road to life mt 7:14 Ps 23:3
bear fruit Lk 3:9 Jn 15:1-6
grow in grace 2 pet 3:18
keep commands rev 14:12 mt 19:17 Jn 14:21 1 cor 7:19 1Jn 3:24 1 Jn 5:2-3 rev 12:17
suffer with Christ and for His sake
phil 1:29 Lk 9:23
walk, sow, live by the Spirit
rom 8:1 rom 8:13
gal 6:7-8 1 pet 2:24
repentance conversion surrender
acts 3:19 1 pet 3:12
faith & patience heb 6:12
faith, patience, good works rev 2:19
endure to the end mt 10:22
overcome rev 2:10


Created to Know, Love, & Serve God

not faith alone!

 

[Behold]

@Behold,
I have repeatedly agreed that we are justified by grace through faith apart from works. The question has never been whether faith saves. The question is what kind of faith Scripture is describing.

You say faith is a single moment in time. Yet the New Testament repeatedly speaks of believing, abiding, continuing, enduring, obeying, and walking by faith. Faith certainly has a beginning, but Scripture does not reduce it to a moment detached from the life that follows.

You also keep redefining every passage about obedience as merely "believe once." But that is the very point under discussion.

When Hebrews 5:9 says Christ is the source of eternal salvation to those who obey Him, you define obedience as one moment of belief.
When James says faith without works is dead, you redefine it as a saved person with inactive faith.
When John 3:36 contrasts believing the Son with disobeying the Son, you redefine disobedience as merely unbelief.

So the question remains:

Are these passages teaching your definition of faith, or are you bringing your definition of faith to these passages?

I fully agree that salvation is God's gift received through faith. What I do not see is where Scripture teaches that saving faith is merely a one-time act that can be separated from repentance, obedience, and perseverance. The apostles consistently describe faith as living, active, and transformative, not merely as a past decision.



@Behold, I have never disputed justification by faith. The question is whether your definition of faith is the same definition used by the apostles.

Simply repeating "justification by faith alone" does not answer the passages under discussion. Paul teaches justification by faith apart from works of the Law. Amen.

James teaches that faith without works is dead. Amen.

Hebrews teaches that Christ is the source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him. Amen.

John contrasts believing the Son with disobeying the Son. Amen.

Rather than explaining these passages on their own terms, you repeatedly redefine obedience, perseverance, and repentance as nothing more than a one-time act of belief.

So the question remains:

Where does the New Testament define saving faith as a one-time event that is completely separable from repentance, obedience, and perseverance?

I agree that we are justified by faith. What I do not see is where the apostles define faith in the reduced way that you are proposing.

Let us remember that what im teaching is "Grace through Faith"....or "Justification by faith, without works or deeds of the Law".
This is known as Paul's Doctrine.
And all that He is showing us is that God became one of us to offer eternal forgiveness and eternal righteousness to "all who will believe".

"eternal forgiveness and eternal righteousness" are "Gifts" that God the Father gives to everyone who will place their faith in Jesus.

Paul teaches (Romans 5:1 this as "being JUSTIFED by FAITH (before God).. we have peace with God.. through our Lord Jesus Christ'".
Notice that Paul is teaching that the only way to have peace with God, is "through Christ"... and that means, that Its The Cross of Christ that is where our eternal "Peace with God" is offered as "The Gift of Salvation".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen,

From The Lips of Jesus The Lord, He said from The Cross......"IT is Finished".

So, this is The Lord teaching that He has completed our Salvation on The Cross, = 2000 yrs ago.
Christ "finished it", He told us from THe Cross, and then He died and rose again to prove it.

So, if you are born again, you are one of these 3.

1.) I understand Salvation is Jesus on the Cross and i can't do that or keep that, i have only received it from God as His "Gift of Salvation".
And Paul says you are one of the """as many as be perfect""", which means "you've worked out your Eternal Salvation that Holy Eternal God has given you for FREE, perfeclty understanding that He only gave you this because you gave God your Faith in Christ, that He required.
You understand that The Cross is The "Divine Exchange" whereby Christ becomes our sin and we become "Christ's righteousness", as our born again "new Creation in Christ".. Heavenly identity.
So, you understand that you exist eternally within : God's "Grace through faith" and you understand this perfectly.
And that knowledge is....>"all who believe in Jesus shall be saved". and : Jesus who saved me, keeps me saved the same way He saved me.


Or, 2.) you are someone who is "coming to the knowledge of the Truth" that : Jesus is Salvation, and this does not include any Moses Law or Commandment keeping or any type of "works" you can produce, such as water baptism, or trying to be like Christ.
You are beginning to believe that Jesus is not just the "door" and the "way", He is Eternal Life and the Blood Atonment and God's "imputed righteosness: given to you forever, solely based on : Our "faith is counted by God as (Christ's) righteousness" (imputed to us).
You understand that this verse is describing you as a "new creation in Christ".

A.) "The righteousness of God, in Christ".


Or, 3.) you are a deceived Legalst, a self-saver, who is trying to keep yourself saved, wrongly believing that God's Salvation is only as lasting as you try to be good enough day by day = to try to earn it or keep it from being lost.
So, you have broken Faith, wrong faith...., not dead faith.
It means You have no real faith in Christ to keep you saved so this means your faith is misplaced.
You are a person whom Paul defines in Galatians as ""fallen from Grace", "bewitched" by a deceiver's theology... who is going to also teach that Jesus's Sacrifice only starts your salvation, and then you must get up on your own Self Righteous Cross and do the rest for yourself, and you hope you get it right.
You'll have a "self savers list" of "do's and don't dos, and if you keep that list daily till you die, you believe... then you hope you'll go to heaven in the end"., And your list will include 4-5 verses that you misunderstood that you feel support your self effort to try to keep yourself saved.
On a fourm like this one, all you'll be able to want to talk about is your own sin, commandments and self effort, OSAS,... and losing your salvation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, which one of the 3.... are you Reader, as you are one of them. ????

 

[Jack]

not faith alone!

So the thief on the cross is in Hell? Even tho Jesus said the thief would be with Him in "paradise" TODAY?

 

[Angelina]

Let us remember that what im teaching is "Grace through Faith"....or "Justification by faith, without works or deeds of the Law".
This is known as Paul's Doctrine.
And all that He is showing us is that God became one of us to offer eternal forgiveness and eternal righteousness to "all who will believe".

"eternal forgiveness and eternal righteousness" are "Gifts" that God the Father gives to everyone who will place their faith in Jesus.

Paul teaches (Romans 5:1 this as "being JUSTIFED by FAITH (before God).. we have peace with God.. through our Lord Jesus Christ'".
Notice that Paul is teaching that the only way to have peace with God, is "through Christ"... and that means, that Its The Cross of Christ that is where our eternal "Peace with God" is offered as "The Gift of Salvation".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Listen,

From The Lips of Jesus The Lord, He said from The Cross......"IT is Finished".

So, this is The Lord teaching that He has completed our Salvation on The Cross, = 2000 yrs ago.
Christ "finished it", He told us from THe Cross, and then He died and rose again to prove it.

So, if you are born again, you are one of these 3.

1.) I understand Salvation is Jesus on the Cross and i can't do that or keep that, i have only received it from God as His "Gift of Salvation".
And Paul says you are one of the """as many as be perfect""", which means "you've worked out your Eternal Salvation that Holy Eternal God has given you for FREE, perfeclty understanding that He only gave you this because you gave God your Faith in Christ, that He required.
You understand that The Cross is The "Divine Exchange" whereby Christ becomes our sin and we become "Christ's righteousness", as our born again "new Creation in Christ".. Heavenly identity.
So, you understand that you exist eternally within : God's "Grace through faith" and you understand this perfectly.
And that knowledge is....>"all who believe in Jesus shall be saved". and : Jesus who saved me, keeps me saved the same way He saved me.


Or, 2.) you are someone who is "coming to the knowledge of the Truth" that : Jesus is Salvation, and this does not include any Moses Law or Commandment keeping or any type of "works" you can produce, such as water baptism, or trying to be like Christ.
You are beginning to believe that Jesus is not just the "door" and the "way", He is Eternal Life and the Blood Atonment and God's "imputed righteosness: given to you forever, solely based on : Our "faith is counted by God as (Christ's) righteousness" (imputed to us).
You understand that this verse is describing you as a "new creation in Christ".

A.) "The righteousness of God, in Christ".


Or, 3.) you are a deceived Legalst, a self-saver, who is trying to keep yourself saved, wrongly believing that God's Salvation is only as lasting as you try to be good enough day by day = to try to earn it or keep it from being lost.
So, you have broken Faith, wrong faith...., not dead faith.
It means You have no real faith in Christ to keep you saved so this means your faith is misplaced.
You are a person whom Paul defines in Galatians as ""fallen from Grace", "bewitched" by a deceiver's theology... who is going to also teach that Jesus's Sacrifice only starts your salvation, and then you must get up on your own Self Righteous Cross and do the rest for yourself, and you hope you get it right.
You'll have a "self savers list" of "do's and don't dos, and if you keep that list daily till you die, you believe... then you hope you'll go to heaven in the end"., And your list will include 4-5 verses that you misunderstood that you feel support your self effort to try to keep yourself saved.
On a fourm like this one, all you'll be able to want to talk about is your own sin, commandments and self effort, OSAS,... and losing your salvation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, which one of the 3.... are you Reader, as you are one of them. ????

@Behold, you still haven’t answered the central question I asked.

Where does the New Testament define saving faith as a one-time event that is separable from repentance, obedience, and perseverance?

Instead of addressing that, you have replaced the discussion with categories of people and conclusions about motives, but the apostolic texts themselves still remain unaddressed.

Let’s return to Scripture.
Paul clearly teaches justification by faith apart from works of the Law (Romans 3:28, Romans 5:1). I fully affirm that.
But the same New Testament also says:

Christ is the source of eternal salvation to those who obey Him (Hebrews 5:9)
Faith without works is dead (James 2:17)
The one who believes the Son has life; the one who disobeys the Son does not see life (John 3:36)
Those who are in Christ walk according to the Spirit, not the flesh (Romans 8:1–14)

So the question is not whether salvation is by grace through faith. I agree it is.
The question is: what kind of faith is Scripture actually describing?

You keep asserting that obedience, repentance, and perseverance are merely optional “add-ons” to a one-time act of belief, but the New Testament consistently describes faith as something living, continuing, and demonstrated in a transformed life.

Paul does not define saving faith as a moment disconnected from what follows. He speaks of faith that “works through love” (Galatians 5:6), of continuing in the faith (Colossians 1:23), and of presenting the body as a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1).

So again, I return to the original question:
Where do the apostles define saving faith as a one-time act that can be separated from obedience and perseverance, while still remaining saving faith?

If Scripture teaches that, I’m willing to see it. But I do not see that definition stated anywhere in the New Testament.