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theefaith

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[QUOTE="theefaith, post: 956630, member: 9099"

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Not true.

Let me show you the Gospel as Salvation. = All that is necessary for salvation is the work of God.

1.) "The work of God is that you believe on Jesus, the One whom God sent".

2.) Jesus said, "if you do not believe im the Messiah, you will die in your sins".

3.) "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness".

4.) "Jesus, after He had purged our sins with His blood, sat down on the right hand of the Father., the Majesty on High.".

5.) "All that call on the name of the Lord, shall be SAVED".

6.) "As many as believed in Jesus, ... God gave them power to BECOME the Sons of God"..


Now, do you see a sacrament in any of that??
Do you see any water?
And why not?
Because water and cookies and juice and Popes, and Mary, and commandments, have nothing to do with the BLOOD ATONEMENT.

All that will get you into the family of God and thus, into heaven, is "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

water, popes, mary, commandments, lifestyle, being good, enduring, .......need not apply.
All doctrines of devils that teach all that cursed theology ... Galatians 1:8 need not apply.[/QUOTE]

yes I see it very beautifully
And there is no such thing as finished work of Christ on the cross
No scripture for that assertion
Christ continues His work of redemption in his church until the end
Behold I am with you until the end matt 28:18-20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="theefaith, post: 956630, member: 9099"

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Not true.

Let me show you the Gospel as Salvation. = All that is necessary for salvation is the work of God.

1.) "The work of God is that you believe on Jesus, the One whom God sent".

2.) Jesus said, "if you do not believe im the Messiah, you will die in your sins".

3.) "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness".

4.) "Jesus, after He had purged our sins with His blood, sat down on the right hand of the Father., the Majesty on High.".

5.) "All that call on the name of the Lord, shall be SAVED".

6.) "As many as believed in Jesus, ... God gave them power to BECOME the Sons of God"..


Now, do you see a sacrament in any of that??
Do you see any water?
And why not?
Because water and cookies and juice and Popes, and Mary, and commandments, have nothing to do with the BLOOD ATONEMENT.

All that will get you into the family of God and thus, into heaven, is "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

water, popes, mary, commandments, lifestyle, being good, enduring, .......need not apply.
All doctrines of devils that teach all that cursed theology ... Galatians 1:8 need not apply.[/QUOTE]

I created a thread on Mary in the Bible as you requested
Why no response?
 

Behold

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All doctrines of devils that teach all that cursed theology ... Galatians 1:8 need not apply.[/QUOTE]

And there is no such thing as finished work of Christ on the cross
No scripture for that assertion
[/QUOTE]

How would you like it explained?

As the finished "will" of God? "Not my will but thine be done".....which is explaining that Jesus said....."if this cup can pass from me"..
What is the cup?
The Cup is the judgment of God poured out against SIN, on JESUS.. = THe Cross.
So, that is the will of God, or the work that God gave the Son to COMPLETE.... that Christ accepted and completed , that Christ said from the Cross...>"it....this will of God...that i bear the sin of the world, = is FINISHED"..

See that finished? That is the finished work, that God came here to do, on the Cross,... John 3:16

Call it will, call it work, .......its the same.
Its SALVATION.
No water, no sacraments are involved.
 

justbyfaith

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where does it say you are free from error cause of the HS
Thousands of Protestant denominations defy that and they all teach contradictory doctrine
No the the HS is only found in the holy church of the apostles in unity and one faith free from error

If anyone has the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of truth) they are being guided into all truth.

That is not to say that they automatically have all of the truth.

We are all being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

The difference between your Catholic religion and what I believe in is that you base your doctrine on documents that are based on the Bible;

Whereas I base my doctrine on the Bible itself.

Ever play the telephone game?

There is a much greater margin of error the further you get away from the source.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Jesus is one with His church!
Acts 22:9 Saul, Saul why do you persecute me? Saul was persecuting the church!

Seek first the kingdom of God, seek ye first the church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Matthew 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Jesus Christ is the treasure and the field is His Holy church!

The holy church is necessary for salvation!

The church is not a democracy, it is a kingdom, with a king!

Four marks (characteristics) of the true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

One:
Holy:
Catholic:
Apostolic:



The authority of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword:

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one church! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 22:9


Error
All members / believers are the church, only Peter and the apostles have authority, and power to bind and loose, to teach, govern and administer and discipline the church!

Must be in the new covenant, by union with the mediator we are in communion with each other and God!

Nature of the church is found in a
Hierarchy, thru the ordained ministerial priesthood of Melchezedek, not the royal priesthood of believers!
Vicarious nature of Christ continuing His mission and ministry in the church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and jurisdictional authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20



Unity of the church

Obedience to Christ and His church

Necessity of the church for salvation

3 fold office of the church

Who founded the church

What are the four marks of the true church?


Heresy
“The Invisible Body of Believers.”

Body of Christ
Church a sign and means of grace

Only way to God is thru salvation in Jesus Christ, the only way to Christ is they His church!

pearl of great price in the church

Many are called few are chosen Matt 22:14

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

The church and Jesus Christ are one Union: Acts 9

Initiation into the new covenant church:
Faith and baptism

Necessary for salvation:
Jesus Christ the savior

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Successors)


Instructed by the church as by Christ:

Church possesses the infant treasury of Christ’s merits

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Saul Saul why does Thou persecute me?
Saul was persecuting the church, and therefore Christ! Jesus Christ and His church are one! Jesus Christ continues the work of redemption and the life of grace by His holy church!

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

Christ and His church are one and necessary for salvation!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 eph 2:20

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

one church jn 10:16
The Roman Catholic Church isn't the true Church, nor is the True Church founded on the Apostle Peter, it's founded on the greatest rock Jesus Christ. Do you think the Apostle Peter to be greater than Jesus Christ. Jesus is head of the True Church not the Apostle Peter.
Also Do you know what the kingdom of God is? I haven't seen nor do I see anyone except the JW preaching about the kingdom of God. The Catholic Church as well as the other churches have put their hope in the United Nations not the Kingdom of God.
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. He is not physically in the world.

See Colossians 1:27.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; not only in that He is a Man sitting on the right hand on the throne of God: but also in that He dwells through the Holy Ghost in our flesh.
 

Behold

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See Colossians 1:27.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; not only in that He is a Man sitting on the right hand on the throne of God: but also in that He dwells through the Holy Ghost in our flesh.

Wrong again.

You are confusing the "comforter" with Jesus in the Flesh.

Jesus is not physically on the earth. He is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He ascended back to heaven, and the Apostles watched Him go.
This is why Paul told you that "absent from the body, present with THE LORD".
See that?
We go TO JESUS, when we die.
He is not on the earth.
 

justbyfaith

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gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

the condemnation of the false queen of heaven is a verity that there must be a true queen of heaven
Just like condemning false Christ’s proves that there is a true Christ

in the line of kings of david the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

rev 12:1 queen in heaven
The queen of heaven in the book of Jeremiah is not identified by Jeremiah as the "false queen of heaven".

She is the "queen of heaven" period.
 
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justbyfaith

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Wrong again.

You are confusing the "comforter" with Jesus in the Flesh.

Jesus is not physically on the earth. He is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He ascended back to heaven, and the Apostles watched Him go.
This is why Paul told you that "absent from the body, present with THE LORD".
See that?
We go TO JESUS, when we die.
He is not on the earth.
You obviously do not believe in one God. You would do well to do so (James 2:19).
 

justbyfaith

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Wrong again.

You are confusing the "comforter" with Jesus in the Flesh.

Jesus is not physically on the earth. He is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He ascended back to heaven, and the Apostles watched Him go.
This is why Paul told you that "absent from the body, present with THE LORD".
See that?
We go TO JESUS, when we die.
He is not on the earth.
I would contend with your statement by saying that Jesus is indeed come in the flesh.
 

Behold

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She is the "queen of heaven" period.

Mary has landed.

You really are getting theologicall worse, and that is not a compliment.

What happened to you, is that you didnt obey Hebrews 13:9 when you first started your theological pursuit.

You are the prime example for the Readers to notice, as your entire Christian life has been going from theology to theology, till you find the next one made by man.
You are exactly what Hebrews 13:9 says happens when you dont get your heart faith, grounded in Grace.
You end up tied up with doctrines of devil's devised by cunning men.

Currently you are self proclaimed as a Pentecostal Catholic, obo..
I wonder what you were 15 yrs ago.
How many have you been since then?
And God only knows what you will be next.
Lately your obsession is on water.
You didnt have this obsession 8 months ago when you also lived on my Threads.
But you have it now.
Will it be Mary next?
The sacraments?
I'm sure you'll let us know when you flip to the new theology.

You didnt obey Hebrews 13:9 but you still can.
You are still breathing.
You dont have to stay in cult land.
Really.
 

OzSpen

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the church of Christ is not a denomination but the universal church

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


Four marks (characteristics) of the true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!

One:
Holy:
Catholic:
Apostolic:



The authority of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword:

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Only one church! Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16
Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Christ and his church are one! Acts 22:9

So we have one church where Pentecostals clash with cessationists. One church where paedobaptists clash with believers' baptism promoters.

One church where ArmiNians clash with Calvinists. One church where some support OSAS vs others who ptromote salvation that ccan bee lost.

What about the big divide between RCC & Protestants?

One church has become a joke.

Oz
 

Behold

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So we have one church where Pentecostals clash with cessationists. One church where paedobaptists clash with believers' baptism promoters.

One church where ArmiNians clash with Calvinists. One church where some support OSAS vs others who ptromote salvation that ccan bee lost.

What about the big divide between RCC & Protestants?

One church has become a joke.

Oz

The "church" is not catholic, and its not a denomination.
Its the Body, its all the born again.
 
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Paul Christensen

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See Colossians 1:27.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh; not only in that He is a Man sitting on the right hand on the throne of God: but also in that He dwells through the Holy Ghost in our flesh.
I thought that is what I said. Jesus does not live personally in our flesh. He is at the right hand of the Father in heaven. The Holy Spirit is in such unity of mission and purpose as Jesus and the Father, having the indwelling Holy Spirit is as if Jesus and the Father are in us. Jesus has not yet come back to earth. He said to the disciples that He is going away, and He will send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) to be with and in them until He comes again in person.

This is why I don't believe in personal visitations by Jesus. Satan is able to appear like Jesus to deceive people, in the same way he gives visions of Mary. Just in case some try to quote John in Revelation, John was caught up in the Spirit on the Lord's day and what he saw was in a vision and not through actual personal contact with Jesus. Those who purport to have personal visitations by Jesus are the same as those in Thessalonians who are teaching that Christ has come already to the earth. When Jesus comes again, it won't be just one or two seeing Him, but every eye will see Him.
 

justbyfaith

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I thought that is what I said. Jesus does not live personally in our flesh. He is at the right hand of the Father in heaven. The Holy Spirit is in such unity of mission and purpose as Jesus and the Father, having the indwelling Holy Spirit is as if Jesus and the Father are in us. Jesus has not yet come back to earth. He said to the disciples that He is going away, and He will send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) to be with and in them until He comes again in person.

This is why I don't believe in personal visitations by Jesus. Satan is able to appear like Jesus to deceive people, in the same way he gives visions of Mary. Just in case some try to quote John in Revelation, John was caught up in the Spirit on the Lord's day and what he saw was in a vision and not through actual personal contact with Jesus. Those who purport to have personal visitations by Jesus are the same as those in Thessalonians who are teaching that Christ has come already to the earth. When Jesus comes again, it won't be just one or two seeing Him, but every eye will see Him.

He does live personally in our flesh...unless you are contending that Jesus isn't the Christ...in which case 1 John 5:1 would tell us that you aren't born again.

Col 1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
 

Paul Christensen

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So we have one church where Pentecostals clash with cessationists. One church where paedobaptists clash with believers' baptism promoters.

One church where ArmiNians clash with Calvinists. One church where some support OSAS vs others who ptromote salvation that ccan bee lost.

What about the big divide between RCC & Protestants?

One church has become a joke.

Oz
It's not the true church that is the problem. It is religious people majoring in minors. Genuine believers in each denomination just get on with remaining saved, living holy lives to glorify Christ, and doing what they can to get others saved from an eternity in hell.

It is true that the visible church is a fractured, divided mess with over 50% of members religious hypocrites instead of genuinely born again believers in Christ. It is the parable of the wheat and the tares. Just by looking at church members we cannot know who is genuine and who is a hypocrite, because each conduct themselves (outwardly) in exactly the same ways. But God sees deeper than outward conduct. He sees right into the heart of people. He knows who are His, and in that day when the secrets of men's hearts are made manifest, the sheep will be separated from the goats, and we may be shocked at who we thought were great believers revealed as unsaved religious hypocrites who became involved in their churches for all the wrong reasons.

It is true that they true way to eternal life is narrow and few there be who find it. One day, when Jesus comes and divides people to left and right, we will realise just exactly how narrow that way is and how very few in comparison to the multitude of church goers have truly found Christ.
 

Paul Christensen

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He does live personally in our flesh...unless you are contending that Jesus isn't the Christ...in which case 1 John 5:1 would tell us that you aren't born again.

Col 1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
So, are you telling us that the second coming of Christ has happened already?
 

justbyfaith

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So, are you telling us that the second coming of Christ has happened already?
Don't be ridiculous.

I'm merely saying that Jesus is come in the flesh in that He dwells within the flesh of each member of His body.

Of course there is a distinctive Person (the Son) who is returning on the clouds.

But the Person of the Holy Ghost is also Jesus Christ in that He is the Spirit of Christ.