No Escape : From Hell

[Deleted member 26788]

Genesis3:1-4​

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.''

You will not certainly die
the first lie told and it keeps getting repeated .''oh the dead are not really dead ,they live on because the spirit leaves the body to go to a happy place '' or to a not so happy place.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

Ecclesiastes 9:​

4  There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5  For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6  Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
10  Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But that doesn't answer the fact that there is only one God. How can the Word Who came in the flesh be "a god", different to the one true God? How can the Word be "a god," as you claim, without being a false god, like Baal?

It does answer the question of “only one God” when you see what the word in Greek actually means.....”theos” is a general term for “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.” It’s not a word that refers to Yahweh alone....even satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.

If you read John 10:31-36 you will see that Jesus referred to the judges in Israel as “gods” because they judged by God’s divine authority.

“Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God (theos).” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’ (theos)? If he called them gods (theos) to whom the word of God (ho theos) came—and Scripture cannot be broken— do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God (ho theos)’? (ESV)

It is evident by the use of the definite article who is Yahweh and who are those divinely authorised by him.
Jesus identified himself as “the son of ho theos”....Jesus is everything he said he was.
You can see if you do your own research that it’s a small word with a very important meaning.

Can you tell me why translators would omit such an important detail from their translations? It’s there in all interlinear translations, but treated as if it’s not there at all, and that it’s omission is of no consequence. Often you just see a dash where it should be included if the translation was correct.

Also the use of capital letters is misleading, as there were no upper and lower case letters in Greek, so the suggestion is reinforced by the use of a capital “G” when that was missing from the Greek as well. So it is evident that they added and subtracted things in their translations that would support their doctrines.

The original Scriptures were “inspired of God”, (2 Tim 3:16-17).....but translations are the work of men.
We need to do our own homework. (1 Cor 8:5-6)

 

[Behold]

The original Scriptures were “inspired of God”, (2 Tim 3:16-17).....but translations are the work of men.

Trying to cast public doubt on the Holy Bible is the Devil's work, as is the JW cult.

See you there next time... @Aunty Jane

 

[shepherdsword]

I cant help but notice you are trying to set doctrine from things said in a parable .
a parable/story given to illustrate a certain point . Jesus knew of their beliefs and used it against them as a teaching point.
as for the dead, its common practice to bury the dead. from dust they came to dust they return. the grave is the place of the bodies destruction ,given enough time the bodies turn to dust.
the dead dont know they are there ,only the living know they are there. sheol , hadies and hell... its the same place . there is but one hope for the dead,to live again by resurrection. its not until that happens that any of the dead will have a thought running through their head.

Yeah, a parable reflects a true story. The parable of the sower? Real earth and real seed. 99 sheep vs 1? Real sheep? Pearl of great price? real pearls exist. In fact, the whole goal of a parable is to...TEACH. I can't help but notice you ignore that. The parable would not make any sense unless the comfort and torment were real. Stop clutching at straws.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Everyone who died today and went to Hell, ...knows they are in it.

It’s hard to acknowledge something when you are asleep.....hell is “Sheol” in Hebrew and “hades” in Greek.
“Gehenna” is a whole other destination, so please tell us which “hell” you are talking about....?

"soul sleep" is a MaryCult myth, as is purgatory.

It’s actually a very ancient belief...one that Jews held to long before Roman Catholicism destroyed Christianity. As has been shown to you many times.....an immortal soul was never in Jewish teachings...only in pagan beliefs....and for obvious reasons. It supports satan’s first lie....”you surely will not die” when God told Adam that he surely would.

Paul teaches that when you die, you are "Present with the Lord"........not "asleep and would not realize it".
And its the same for someone who just left their dead body and went to Hell like a bullet.

Again, Paul was a Jew who was enlightened by the Holy Spirit, but who also knew about the condition of the dead. As the apostles had no idea when they would “be present with the Lord” they all died in expectation of his promise. And yet what did Paul say....?

1 Thess 4:13-17...ESV...
“But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.”

Read it carefully.....when were the apostles expecting to be raised from their sleep? Remember these are Paul’s words.....

They had to wait for Christ’s return which they assumed was imminent....yet Paul’s inspired words carry the timeline....”the coming of the Lord” would be that time, and those who died first would “not precede” those who died later. All the saints were to be raised “first” and gathered to their heavenly assignments when Christ came back for them. How many returns are listed in the Bible? Only one.

Those who were alive on earth when he arrived, would not need to wait in their graves for his return but would be gathered to him immediately upon their death. “Transformed in the twinkling of an eye”....(1 Cor 15:51-52)I

So what you say is unbiblical nonsense. You don’t know Paul’s teachings at all. You preach your own version of them. All wrong.

Trying to cast public doubt on the Holy Bible is the Devil's work, as is the JW cult.

I do not cast doubt on the Holy Bible at all....it is “inspired of God”....but translations are the work of men, which I guess is why you don’t study the original language words to see for yourself the glaring departure from the truth in these many translations, all done by trinitarians, many of whom relish the thought of an eternal fiery hell.....now that is the devil’s work, IMO. You dishonour God by the mere suggestion that he could transgress his own perfect justice in such a heinous way.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

a parable reflects a true story.

had you said a parable reflects a true event .that could be different . what Jesus did was tell a story to hopefully connect to those listening to him .

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yeah, a parable reflects a true story. The parable of the sower? Real earth and real seed. 99 sheep vs 1? Real sheep? Pearl of great price? real pearls exist. In fact, the whole goal of a parable is to...TEACH. I can't help but notice you ignore that. The parable would not make any sense unless the comfort and torment were real. Stop clutching at straws.

This is a parable among many, and it was about real people, just not whom you assume them to be.
Who were his audience?

Luke 16:14-15...
“The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” (ESV)

The rich man pictured those Pharisees and the beggar pictured the “lost sheep” whom the Pharisees treated like dirt. The beggar’s condition shows how spiritually impoverished he really was due to their neglect, not even aware that a few crumbs from his table could sustain them....They were the custodians of God’s law and had the responsibility to lead the people in true worship, but they were hopeless throughout their entire history. Periods of obedience and blessing were eclipsed by periods of disobedience and God’s punishment.

Read in a literal way this parable makes no sense...are heaven and hell within viewing and speaking distance of one another? What is the “bosom of Abraham”....and what did their deaths indicate? Could a drop of cold water cool a man’s tongue whilst he was in flames? This is all very descriptive language but very meaningful at the same time.

These were two opposing sides to Jesus ministry.....he was sent to the “lost sheep, not to the religious leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)

So the deaths of these two men meant that they (as a group) changed places....the “bosom of Abraham” was a position of favour with God as Abraham was the only man in the Bible called “Jehovah’s friend”.

The “torment” felt by the Pharisees was clearly demonstrated in what they plotted to do with the one who was making them look bad. Jesus’ presence and preaching brought about a change in status for the proud hypocritical Pharisees and the spiritually hungry common people...those who flocked to hear him speak.
They changed places from God’s perspective.

This is not a parable about heaven and hell but about Jesus putting the Pharisees in their place.....a place that was too hot to handle so they were prompted to orchestrate the silencing of this heretical imposter! It is what the Jews had always done to those who made their guilt obvious. (Matt 23:37-39) They never repented for long, and always went back to their bad ways.

The parable is a very powerful judgment against the Pharisees.....

 

[Jack]

I cant help but notice you are trying to set doctrine from things said in a parable .
a parable/story given to illustrate a certain point . Jesus knew of their beliefs and used it against them as a teaching point.
as for the dead, its common practice to bury the dead. from dust they came to dust they return. the grave is the place of the bodies destruction ,given enough time the bodies turn to dust.
the dead dont know they are there ,only the living know they are there. sheol , hadies and hell... its the same place . there is but one hope for the dead,to live again by resurrection. its not until that happens that any of the dead will have a thought running through their head.

Who told you it's a parable? The WatchTower, no doubt. They're wrong about nearly everything. Your opinions do not overrule God of the Bible.

 

[Jack]

had you said a parable reflects a true event .that could be different . what Jesus did was tell a story to hopefully connect to those listening to him .

IOW you're accusing Jesus of making up HORROR stories.

 

[David Lamb]

had you said a parable reflects a true event .that could be different . what Jesus did was tell a story to hopefully connect to those listening to him .

"Hopefully connect to those listening to him ?" Really? That is not the reason Jesus gave for why He used parables:

“9 Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?” 10 And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that ‘Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.’” (Lu 8:9-10 NKJV)

 

[Taken]

had you said a parable reflects a true event .that could be different . what Jesus did was tell a story to hopefully connect to those listening to him .

A parable certainly can be:
*Every word true in story form…
*A made up story to make a point…
*Can include made up characters and names and titles.
* Is fashioned in such a manner to be similar to what the listener could reasonably / comparatively understand.

Made-up means NOT True.

Jesus spoke to very Large Crowds.
Yes Jesus’ Speech Often included Parables.
Yes Some Listeners Understood.
Yes Some Listeners Walked Away Believing Jesus was no more than a “good story teller”.

What I mean by “Some Listeners Understood”… IS THIS;

“it matters not what Jesus’ speech was called:
Story, Fable, Tale, Poetry, PARABLE…
EVERY SINGLE WORD HE SPOKE WAS TRUE!

Debating over IF Jesus’ Parables were TRUE or NOT… is debating over If Jesus could LIE (tell made up stories) or NOT.

Jesus said this;
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth,and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Bottom Line…
It was prophecy … He would speak IN Parables.

Very Remarkable…
One Speech to Believer and Doubter Listeners…

The Believer would believe Every word “He” Spoke was TRUE”, and long to Hear More.

The Doubter world say Eh a skilled “story teller”… and walk away.

Point is Regardless of What Jesus Speech is Called…
He IS the Truth and Can ONLY Speak What is True.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Deleted member 26788]

A parable certainly can be:
*Every word true in story form…
*A made up story to make a point…
*Can include made up characters and names and titles.
* Is fashioned in such a manner to be similar to what the listener could reasonably / comparatively understand.

Made-up means NOT True.

Jesus spoke to very Large Crowds.
Yes Jesus’ Speech Often included Parables.
Yes Some Listeners Understood.
Yes Some Listeners Walked Away Believing Jesus was no more than a “good story teller”.

What I mean by “Some Listeners Understood”… IS THIS;

“it matters not what Jesus’ speech was called:
Story, Fable, Tale, Poetry, PARABLE…
EVERY SINGLE WORD HE SPOKE WAS TRUE!

Debating over IF Jesus’ Parables were TRUE or NOT… is debating over If Jesus could LIE (tell made up stories) or NOT.

Jesus said this;
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth,and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Bottom Line…
It was prophecy … He would speak IN Parables.

Very Remarkable…
One Speech to Believer and Doubter Listeners…

The Believer would believe Every word “He” Spoke was TRUE”, and long to Hear More.

The Doubter world say Eh a skilled “story teller”… and walk away.

Point is Regardless of What Jesus Speech is Called…
He IS the Truth and Can ONLY Speak What is True.

Glory to God,
Taken

you really should re read #208 by

Aunty Jane​

she nailed it​

 

[shepherdsword]

had you said a parable reflects a true event .that could be different . what Jesus did was tell a story to hopefully connect to those listening to him .

I agree and he used a true example of the afterlife to draw the picture. It is absurd to claim he used a false example

 

[shepherdsword]

This is a parable among many, and it was about real people, just not whom you assume them to be.
Who were his audience?

Luke 16:14-15...
“The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” (ESV)

The rich man pictured those Pharisees and the beggar pictured the “lost sheep” whom the Pharisees treated like dirt. The beggar’s condition shows how spiritually impoverished he really was due to their neglect, not even aware that a few crumbs from his table could sustain them....They were the custodians of God’s law and had the responsibility to lead the people in true worship, but they were hopeless throughout their entire history. Periods of obedience and blessing were eclipsed by periods of disobedience and God’s punishment.

Read in a literal way this parable makes no sense...are heaven and hell within viewing and speaking distance of one another? What is the “bosom of Abraham”....and what did their deaths indicate? Could a drop of cold water cool a man’s tongue whilst he was in flames? This is all very descriptive language but very meaningful at the same time.

These were two opposing sides to Jesus ministry.....he was sent to the “lost sheep, not to the religious leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)

So the deaths of these two men meant that they (as a group) changed places....the “bosom of Abraham” was a position of favour with God as Abraham was the only man in the Bible called “Jehovah’s friend”.

The “torment” felt by the Pharisees was clearly demonstrated in what they plotted to do with the one who was making them look bad. Jesus’ presence and preaching brought about a change in status for the proud hypocritical Pharisees and the spiritually hungry common people...those who flocked to hear him speak.
They changed places from God’s perspective.

This is not a parable about heaven and hell but about Jesus putting the Pharisees in their place.....a place that was too hot to handle so they were prompted to orchestrate the silencing of this heretical imposter! It is what the Jews had always done to those who made their guilt obvious. (Matt 23:37-39) They never repented for long, and always went back to their bad ways.

The parable is a very powerful judgment against the Pharisees.....

It is a powerful example of what happens in the afterlife. The Lord would not have used a false example to teach such a truth. We could make the scriptures say anything by assigning metaphoric references. The Lord was giving use a warning of after death reality.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

the afterlife.

what is that ?

 

[shepherdsword]

Who told you it's a parable? The WatchTower, no doubt. They're wrong about nearly everything. Your opinions do not overrule God of the Bible.

Every cult will redefine truth using their own metaphoric symbols. There is no other way to wrest and twist the truth into some symbolic caricature of what the Lord meant.

 

[Jack]

Every cult will redefine truth using their own metaphoric symbols. There is no other way to wrest and twist the truth into some symbolic caricature of what the Lord meant.

"Symbolic" a JW FAV when they don't like what God said!

 

[shepherdsword]

This is a parable among many, and it was about real people, just not whom you assume them to be.
Who were his audience?

Luke 16:14-15...
“The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” (ESV)

The rich man pictured those Pharisees and the beggar pictured the “lost sheep” whom the Pharisees treated like dirt. The beggar’s condition shows how spiritually impoverished he really was due to their neglect, not even aware that a few crumbs from his table could sustain them....They were the custodians of God’s law and had the responsibility to lead the people in true worship, but they were hopeless throughout their entire history. Periods of obedience and blessing were eclipsed by periods of disobedience and God’s punishment.

Read in a literal way this parable makes no sense...are heaven and hell within viewing and speaking distance of one another? What is the “bosom of Abraham”....and what did their deaths indicate? Could a drop of cold water cool a man’s tongue whilst he was in flames? This is all very descriptive language but very meaningful at the same time.

This is not about heaven and the lake of fire. It is about a place reserved for the righteous(Abraham's bosom) and Hades, a place for the wicked before the Great White throne judgement in Rev 20. At which time hades itself will be thrown into the lake of fire.

These were two opposing sides to Jesus ministry.....he was sent to the “lost sheep, not to the religious leaders whom he condemned to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)

So the deaths of these two men meant that they (as a group) changed places....the “bosom of Abraham” was a position of favour with God as Abraham was the only man in the Bible called “Jehovah’s friend”.

This is a real stretch that no real exegetical analysis supports.

The “torment” felt by the Pharisees was clearly demonstrated in what they plotted to do with the one who was making them look bad. Jesus’ presence and preaching brought about a change in status for the proud hypocritical Pharisees and the spiritually hungry common people...those who flocked to hear him speak.
They changed places from God’s perspective.

This is not a parable about heaven and hell but about Jesus putting the Pharisees in their place.....a place that was too hot to handle so they were prompted to orchestrate the silencing of this heretical imposter! It is what the Jews had always done to those who made their guilt obvious. (Matt 23:37-39) They never repented for long, and always went back to their bad ways.

The parable is a very powerful judgment against the Pharisees.....

We can twist scripture into anything we like by using metaphors.

 

[Jack]

The parable is a very powerful judgment against the Pharisees.....

And even more powerful against WatchTower puppets heading for Hell Fire and leading their own families to Hell with them!