Not by works - but by faith

[FollowHim]

If you want to talk about what a person does after they are saved open a thread

this thread is about how one is saved is it by faith or works. I do not want to derail this thread and confuse people

"confuse people" - can we clarify what confusion actually is.
Confusion is not seeing things as they truly are. Jesus calls this shinning a light on a subject.
His reality was He was bringing righteousness, love and truth, but people were evil and desired to hide and not come into the light.

Peter calls us to walk in the light as Jesus is in the light.

So the way you deal with confusion is let the light shine. And Gods light is knowing sin kills, wherever it is performed. And in this sin there is no answer. The only response from our hearts needs to be repentance. If one breaks this rule, or reality, all is lost. Not just a bit, but everything. A clear stream is only clear when there is nothing that obscures, pollutes it.

Coming to Jesus is the first step of clarity, of cleansing, of purity. Some say you must do things in this order or in this way etc. but each has their path, and all needs to be gone through. There is not one exception, it is everything or impurity pulls it all apart.

Some I know vehemently deny this truth, and feel they know Christ with an impure and hard heart. This is not possible. It is not even an argument, but spiritual reality. We cannot become something we are not, we have to become it before we realise the realities of that state. Being born into a church, going all ones life is simply not enough. Even believing the theology bounces off a hard heart. Jesus condemned the pharisees for being self indulgent and greedy, with no love. I have met enough people of faith like this. Being broken in Christ is our foundation, letting Him heal you.

As a young man I lost my father. I found grief, no support, being alone and Jesus by my side. It was a reality I could not deny, it was part of me. Being in Christ is no different. We need to discover this reality and seek Him with our whole heart and we will find Him. This beginning is everything, because upon this foundation our whole lives are built. So salvation is everything in Christ, get it wrong and the fruit of the tree will be bad.

So those who disagree with this position, I can but just shine to the reality that is my life. Do I listen to them or to Jesus?
On that day we will see where we truly are. But a simple test is do you seek Jesus with all your heart?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Confusion is where people are talking about cars. And someone wants to talk about airplanes, and gets mad when people say they want to just talk about cars, if you want to talk about airplanes open another thread, and then tries to justify his remarks

that’s pretty much what you are doing

 

[FollowHim]

Confusion is where people are talking about cars. And someone wants to talk about airplanes, and gets mad when people say they want to just talk about cars, if you want to talk about airplanes open another thread, and then tries to justify his remarks

that’s pretty much what you are doing

"gets mad" - lol
I wonder where sharing the love we have in Christ, is anything to do with getting mad.
Faith is how we come to Christ because we believe what He says about ourselves and we trust Him to deliver us.

If we claim to know Him yet cannot trust Him to make us pure, holy and righteous, what do we have?
Whatever people think another is feeling, it is the positions and their validity that matter.

In Christ if we aspire to be saved but believe this is it take it or leave it, then the answer is leave it.
If Christ is offering His life and His walk today, now in our lives, Amen, give me more.

I was stunned that the Lord said this
9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
1 Chronicles 28:9

29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 4:29

I have yet to find someone who has sought out God and not found Him. This takes effort, is about our choice, our dedication. Jesus is no different

9 So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Luke 11:9-10

Unbelief is a deadly thing, it destroys all we have in Jesus. We start this walk putting everything on the altar, and never taking it off. Praise God He gives us the grace, Amen.

 

[FollowHim]

Confusion is where people are talking about cars. And someone wants to talk about airplanes, and gets mad when people say they want to just talk about cars, if you want to talk about airplanes open another thread, and then tries to justify his remarks

that’s pretty much what you are doing

"tries to justify his remarks" - I wish I understood what this is referring to, I am at a loss.
It is like a random statement wanting to find a mark but actually not having one. lol.
Maybe the shooter is blind, deaf and dumb, and does not know what they are doing.

In Christ we are set free. Free from sin, free from the prison of bondage and despair, free from this world and the continual proving ourselves. In Jesus we know our focus and our destination.

No matter how much faith one has until the Lord responds we have nothing.
Paul described it like this

6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused it to grow.
7 So neither the one who plants counts for anything, nor the one who waters, but God who causes the growth.
1 Cor 3:6-7

I do not expect unbelievers to understand this reality, because they experience no growth in their hearts.
No matter how others react, we know the foundation in Christ that our lives are built upon and the victory He has delivered to our hearts with great rejoicing.

What some will never see is they are on the other side of the ravine and will not cross, so they will forever call us enemy, evil deceived and lost. But praise God, this brings reassurance to our hearts, that we share in Christ sufferings for standing up for His truth and His ways. God bless you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"gets mad" - lol
I wonder where sharing the love we have in Christ, is anything to do with getting mad.
Faith is how we come to Christ because we believe what He says about ourselves and we trust Him to deliver us.

If we claim to know Him yet cannot trust Him to make us pure, holy and righteous, what do we have?
Whatever people think another is feeling, it is the positions and their validity that matter.

In Christ if we aspire to be saved but believe this is it take it or leave it, then the answer is leave it.
If Christ is offering His life and His walk today, now in our lives, Amen, give me more.

I was stunned that the Lord said this
9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
1 Chronicles 28:9

29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 4:29

I have yet to find someone who has sought out God and not found Him. This takes effort, is about our choice, our dedication. Jesus is no different

9 So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Luke 11:9-10

Unbelief is a deadly thing, it destroys all we have in Jesus. We start this walk putting everything on the altar, and never taking it off. Praise God He gives us the grace, Amen.

Your still talking about airplanes. I will no longer respond if you keep doing this

 

[FollowHim]

Your still talking about airplanes. I will no longer respond if you keep doing this

"gets mad" - lol
I wonder where sharing the love we have in Christ, is anything to do with getting mad.
Faith is how we come to Christ because we believe what He says about ourselves and we trust Him to deliver us.

If we claim to know Him yet cannot trust Him to make us pure, holy and righteous, what do we have?
Whatever people think another is feeling, it is the positions and their validity that matter.

In Christ if we aspire to be saved but believe this is it take it or leave it, then the answer is leave it.
If Christ is offering His life and His walk today, now in our lives, Amen, give me more.

I was stunned that the Lord said this
9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
1 Chronicles 28:9

29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deut 4:29

I have yet to find someone who has sought out God and not found Him. This takes effort, is about our choice, our dedication. Jesus is no different

9 So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Luke 11:9-10

Unbelief is a deadly thing, it destroys all we have in Jesus. We start this walk putting everything on the altar, and never taking it off. Praise God He gives us the grace, Amen.

Just for the sake of clarity, where is the word "airplane" mentioned in my post.
Unbelief is a deadly thing, it is how we do not get traction in Christ.

Unbelief led to the rejection of Israel and us being grafted in to Gods vine, Jesus.
Now fools, and I do mean fools, go great we are grafted in, but I can ignore the verses that say if we show no life (fruit) we will be cut off, pruned. Any gardener knows the meaning of this term. But a fool says "God loves me, He does not see my sin"

10 Then you come and stand in my presence in this temple I have claimed as my own and say, “We are safe!” You think you are so safe that you go on doing all those hateful sins!
11 Do you think this temple I have claimed as my own is to be a hideout for robbers? You had better take note! I have seen for myself what you have done! says the LORD.
Jeremiah 7:10-11

The christian version of this is Jesus's blood blinds God to my sin. The idea of being cleansed, washed and purified is to religious and holy for any sinful flesh to ever experience such a thing. Except this is what the Kingdom is, pure, holy cleansed and purified people.

So what people invent is guilt, and what they ignore is the need to repent and walk in the ways of Jesus. Amen to Jesus for leading us into His ways.

 

[Nancy]

Just for the sake of clarity, where is the word "airplane" mentioned in my post.
Unbelief is a deadly thing, it is how we do not get traction in Christ.

Unbelief led to the rejection of Israel and us being grafted in to Gods vine, Jesus.
Now fools, and I do mean fools, go great we are grafted in, but I can ignore the verses that say if we show no life (fruit) we will be cut off, pruned. Any gardener knows the meaning of this term. But a fool says "God loves me, He does not see my sin"

10 Then you come and stand in my presence in this temple I have claimed as my own and say, “We are safe!” You think you are so safe that you go on doing all those hateful sins!
11 Do you think this temple I have claimed as my own is to be a hideout for robbers? You had better take note! I have seen for myself what you have done! says the LORD.
Jeremiah 7:10-11

The christian version of this is Jesus's blood blinds God to my sin. The idea of being cleansed, washed and purified is to religious and holy for any sinful flesh to ever experience such a thing. Except this is what the Kingdom is, pure, holy cleansed and purified people.

So what people invent is guilt, and what they ignore is the need to repent and walk in the ways of Jesus. Amen to Jesus for leading us into His ways.

"Any gardener knows the meaning of this term. But a fool says "God loves me, He does not see my sin"

Dead on the vine...chop chop
The "Church" has become lulled into sleep - by "leaders" giving their sheep no real meat and always the milk, over and over again when they should be already mature. And I don't know where "God does not see my sin" came from, although I have heard and said it myself! Ha!
It's hard for me to perceive a Christian who tries to balance God and the world...if one is truly seeking, I would think their desire would be to not enjoy sin anymore but, to hate it instead.

"So what people invent is guilt, and what they ignore is the need to repent and walk in the ways of Jesus. Amen to Jesus for leading us into His ways."

Yes...then once the guilt sets in, then the temptation to "make up" for it through works rears it's ugly head and, so on and so on it goes. So many scriptures are like, totally ignored with this thinking.


"Unbelief led to the rejection of Israel and us being grafted in to Gods vine, Jesus.
Now fools, and I do mean fools, go great we are grafted in, but I can ignore the verses that say if we show no life (fruit) we will be cut off, pruned. Any gardener knows the meaning of this term. But a fool says "God loves me, He does not see my sin"

 

[RogerDC]

A genuinely converted Christian will not lie, steal, and murder and still make it to heaven. Paul told the Ephesians that they were once like that, but not now.

That doesn’t actually answer my question. I asked if a believer can make it Heaven if he commits serious sins. The Scriptures seem to say “No”, as there are “deadly” sins that a “brother” (a converted Christian) can commit (1John 5:16-17). If there are “deadly” sins that a converted Christian can commit, this means his faith alone will not save him.
Therefore avoiding “deadly” sins is necessary for salvation - avoiding such sins is “works”. Hence, we are not saved by faith alone, but faith and works.

James asks, “if a man says he has faith, but has not works … Can is faith save him?” (James 2:14). In effect, James is asking, “if a man has faith, but commits “deadly” sins, can he be saved?”

A genuinely converted Christian will not lie, steal, and murder and still make it to heaven. Paul told the Ephesians that they were once like that, but not now.

It is naïve and ridiculous - not to mention unscriptural - to suggest that a converted Christian cannot commit serious sin - any believer can commit a serious sin if he so choses. Grace doesn’t turn believers into robots that cannot sin. Having free will means the potential to sin still exists - Adam and Eve were created perfectly free from sin, yet they still chose to sin.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1John 1:8.

Also, Paul did not use the word "you" in Galatians 5:19-21, so he was not referring to the converted believers, but rather those who were still unconverted and still living and walking in the flesh.

That’s nonsense. There is nothing in the text that suggests Paul was talking to the unconverted in Gal 5 - he addresses his letter to “the churches of Galatia” - so he was writing to converted Christians. In chapter 5 he tells these Christians that they are not bound by the law of Moses, but that this doesn’t mean there are no laws, as “the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit” (v.17). He then tells them, “If we are led by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit” - those who are “led by the Spirit” are converted believers, not the unconverted.

Peter issues a similar warning to Paul’s warning in Gal 5: Peter commands converted Christians to “be holy” in all their conduct, because their “deeds” will be judged by God on the Last Day (1Peter 1:14-17). Again, this is faith and works, the same formula for salvation that identifies Christians in Rev 12:17 - “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”

 

[RogerDC]

If the Bible is God's sole communication with mankind (which it is)

Which verse says so?

 

[Paul Christensen]

That doesn’t actually answer my question. I asked if a believer can make it Heaven if he commits serious sins. The Scriptures seem to say “No”, as there are “deadly” sins that a “brother” (a converted Christian) can commit (1John 5:16-17). If there are “deadly” sins that a converted Christian can commit, this means his faith alone will not save him.
Therefore avoiding “deadly” sins is necessary for salvation - avoiding such sins is “works”. Hence, we are not saved by faith alone, but faith and works.

James asks, “if a man says he has faith, but has not works … Can is faith save him?” (James 2:14). In effect, James is asking, “if a man has faith, but commits “deadly” sins, can he be saved?” It is naïve and ridiculous - not to mention unscriptural - to suggest that a converted Christian cannot commit serious sin - any believer can commit a serious sin if he so choses. Grace doesn’t turn believers into robots that cannot sin. Having free will means the potential to sin still exists - Adam and Eve were created perfectly free from sin, yet they still chose to sin.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1John 1:8. That’s nonsense. There is nothing in the text that suggests Paul was talking to the unconverted in Gal 5 - he addresses his letter to “the churches of Galatia” - so he was writing to converted Christians. In chapter 5 he tells these Christians that they are not bound by the law of Moses, but that this doesn’t mean there are no laws, as “the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit” (v.17). He then tells them, “If we are led by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit” - those who are “led by the Spirit” are converted believers, not the unconverted.

Peter issues a similar warning to Paul’s warning in Gal 5: Peter commands converted Christians to “be holy” in all their conduct, because their “deeds” will be judged by God on the Last Day (1Peter 1:14-17). Again, this is faith and works, the same formula for salvation that identifies Christians in Rev 12:17 - “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”

What gets in the way of me accepting your comments is the issue of the Roman Catholic Mass in which the priest eats the very body of Christ and drinks His blood and people pray to the box in which the wafers are stored. To me this is idolatry, totally pagan, and an abomination to God

 

[Paul Christensen]

Which verse says so?

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[FollowHim]

What gets in the way of me accepting your comments is the issue of the Roman Catholic Mass in which the priest eats the very body of Christ and drinks His blood and people pray to the box in which the wafers are stored. To me this is idolatry, totally pagan, and an abomination to God

I like Paul's attitude to idolatry, it's stupid, an object cannot do anything.

I also see in RC ceremonies the tension between holiness and our human state. If sinners hope through effort to aspire to heaven, sacrements and penitence will do the job.

The idea faith is everything, which changes our hearts is so far away from it, it is a different religion.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I like Paul's attitude to idolatry, it's stupid, an object cannot do anything.

I also see in RC ceremonies the tension between holiness and our human state. If sinners hope through effort to aspire to heaven, sacraments and penitence will do the job.

Actually they won't. Paul's gospel was made very clear in Romans and Galatians. The only difference between the false apostles who came to the Galatian churches and said that being circumcised and obeying the Mosaic Law was the only way to salvation; and the RCC which says that attendance at the Mass, going to confession, and complying with RCC doctrine and Canon Law is the only way to salvation, that that the false apostles were Jewish, and the false leaders of the RCC were Gentiles. But the same principle which Paul opposed is evident in both, and Paul said that if anyone who came preaching a different gospel to the one he preached, let them be cursed of God.

The idea faith is everything, which changes our hearts is so far away from it, it is a different religion.

We are not talking about faith alone and nothing else. People have faith in many things. We have faith in our governments that they are doing the right thing to make sure we lead a peaceful and secure life. A person joining a church has faith in the leadership of that church that they will have a foundation of sound doctrine and not lead them astray. Others have faith that when payday comes around they will get their weekly wages. But that is not as the Puritans called "evangelical faith".

"Evangelical faith" is faith with a definite object - the finished work of Christ which He accomplished when He died on the cross. It is faith that what the Bible says about Christ is absolutely true and one can put their full trust in it as their assurance of salvation. Faith is not some kind of force in itself that one can use to achieve a desired object. I can have faith that taking a ticket in the lottery will get me the million dollar prize; and I could believe as hard as I can, but there is no guarantee that I will win any prize let alone the big one.

But the faith we are talking about is our trust and commitment to the promise that if I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He rose from the dead, and I confess to the world that Jesus Christ is my Saviour, then upon the basis of my faith in that promise, I can have the assurance of salvation. The Scripture says: "With the heart a person believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation".

So faith alone doesn't achieve anything. But faith in Christ alone will achieve salvation. That is the gospel that Paul preached and he was adamant that even if an angel came from heaven preaching a different gospel, he is to be accursed.

 

[FollowHim]

Confusion is where people are talking about cars. And someone wants to talk about airplanes, and gets mad when people say they want to just talk about cars, if you want to talk about airplanes open another thread, and then tries to justify his remarks

that’s pretty much what you are doing

This phrase "gets mad" is interesting.

Anger can be a bad thing but also a motivator. Some things really make me angry, threatening the people I love with irresponsible or negligent behaviour. I have reacted like this very rarely, I can probably remember these situations in my life.

So when related to forums, the sharing of love, hope and faith in Jesus, seems totally inappropriate. In an ironic kind of a way it is provoking the very response it is accusing is present. So which comes first, the anger or the accusation.

And that is the motivation. Do I take pride in being calm, loving, caring, taking blows or is it for real?
Paul says this about our attitude

7 As apostles of Christ we could have been a burden to you, but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children.
8 We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us.
1 Thess 2:7-8

15 Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
1 Peter 3:15-16

Now if someone thinks in any of my posts I am "getting mad" I would sincerely appreciate to know where it is, so I can change the words to express better the love and care I feel for those in Christ and unbelievers who need Jesus in their lives.

Sadly there are reports of people who through anger try to provoke people to sin, and thereby convince them of their need of forgiveness and repentance. It shows they do not know Jesus or how to evangelise or even what the way and will of God is.
And if you are wondering, do we know Gods will, the answer is yes in Jesus we do which is why we pray

"Your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." Matt 6:10

Of course we know Gods will, because we have repented of our sins, accepted Jesus and walk in His ways.

 

[FollowHim]

Actually they won't. Paul's gospel was made very clear in Romans and Galatians. The only difference between the false apostles who came to the Galatian churches and said that being circumcised and obeying the Mosaic Law was the only way to salvation; and the RCC which says that attendance at the Mass, going to confession, and complying with RCC doctrine and Canon Law is the only way to salvation, that that the false apostles were Jewish, and the false leaders of the RCC were Gentiles. But the same principle which Paul opposed is evident in both, and Paul said that if anyone who came preaching a different gospel to the one he preached, let them be cursed of God.


We are not talking about faith alone and nothing else. People have faith in many things. We have faith in our governments that they are doing the right thing to make sure we lead a peaceful and secure life. A person joining a church has faith in the leadership of that church that they will have a foundation of sound doctrine and not lead them astray. Others have faith that when payday comes around they will get their weekly wages. But that is not as the Puritans called "evangelical faith".

"Evangelical faith" is faith with a definite object - the finished work of Christ which He accomplished when He died on the cross. It is faith that what the Bible says about Christ is absolutely true and one can put their full trust in it as their assurance of salvation. Faith is not some kind of force in itself that one can use to achieve a desired object. I can have faith that taking a ticket in the lottery will get me the million dollar prize; and I could believe as hard as I can, but there is no guarantee that I will win any prize let alone the big one.

But the faith we are talking about is our trust and commitment to the promise that if I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He rose from the dead, and I confess to the world that Jesus Christ is my Saviour, then upon the basis of my faith in that promise, I can have the assurance of salvation. The Scripture says: "With the heart a person believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation".

So faith alone doesn't achieve anything. But faith in Christ alone will achieve salvation. That is the gospel that Paul preached and he was adamant that even if an angel came from heaven preaching a different gospel, he is to be accursed.

You raise an interesting point. Faith alone, or faith + works.
The language has subtly changed where faith becomes belief without any difference.
So you believe this and are good, I believe that and are good, is the cultural meaning or implication.

But to believe Jesus is to obey and follow, to have love flowing from our hearts in words, actions and deeds.
It is like saying we can be excited about the most fantastic thing in the world and keep quiet about it.
So faith in Christ expresses itself through all aspects of our life.

To claim faith, but have no expression, is a lie. It is why this is assumed by the apostles, but James had to address because a group of believers were claiming they could be saved and have no expression of this, which as he declares is pointless, because it is not new birth, knowing God, being in Him or of Him. We are not talking a cosy club, but love that created the world and governs everything, that is foundational to our lives and all our relationships.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You raise an interesting point. Faith alone, or faith + works.
The language has subtly changed where faith becomes belief without any difference.
So you believe this and are good, I believe that and are good, is the cultural meaning or implication.

But to believe Jesus is to obey and follow, to have love flowing from our hearts in words, actions and deeds.
It is like saying we can be excited about the most fantastic thing in the world and keep quiet about it.
So faith in Christ expresses itself through all aspects of our life.

To claim faith, but have no expression, is a lie. It is why this is assumed by the apostles, but James had to address because a group of believers were claiming they could be saved and have no expression of this, which as he declares is pointless, because it is not new birth, knowing God, being in Him or of Him. We are not talking a cosy club, but love that created the world and governs everything, that is foundational to our lives and all our relationships.

I can accept that. I think we are basically on the same page here. I draw the distinction between having faith in the Christ of the Bible who has given us great and precious promises that when we believe and act on them we receive eternal life. The promises of God in the Bible are objectively true whether we believe them or not. Not believing them does not make them untrue, if you know what I mean.

But there is a notion among some that truth is truth because we believe it to be true for us. This means that the only part of the Bible that is actually true is what I believe it to be true, and if I don't believe it, then it "ain't necessarily so". So then, a person's standing with God is dependent on their own belief, rather than the objective truth of the Bible. It is basically existential philosophy that has at its foundation, faith in faith. This says that if I have faith in something it is true for me, but if I don't believe it then it is not true. The notion "you have your interpretation and I have mine" comes from this pagan philosophy.

Therefore as Christian believers, we don't have faith in faith. We have faith in the Christ of the Bible (contrasted with a "Jesus" of imagination) and the promises that He has given for salvation and on-going sanctification leading to being conform to His image.

 

[RogerDC]

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

Which part of 2Tim 3:16-17 says God communicates to us only through the Scriptures?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Which part of 2Tim 3:16-17 says God communicates to us only through the Scriptures?

How else does He communicate to us?

 

[Dcopymope]

How else does He communicate to us?

, I'm genuinely interested in his answer.

 

[Heart2Soul]

, I'm genuinely interested in his answer.

He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit....I hear His Voice all the time.