Not by works - but by faith

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Paul Christensen

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No, but unbelievers who hear the gospel yet rejects it will be the unluckiest of them all. It will be more tolerable for the sinner of Sodom on judgement day than it will be for them according to Jesus. Those who reject the gospel will be without excuse, and will most certainly get drop kicked into the lake of fire. These are the particular unbelievers John primarily refers to in revelation.
The big question to everyone on the forum - if you get the virus and you die from it, are you sure that you will be going to the right place?
 

Dcopymope

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The big question to everyone on the forum - if you get the virus and you die from it, are you sure that you will be going to the right place?

Well, if you believe you have the seal of God, then its a guarantee that your name is in the book of life. You either have it or you don't, bottom line.
 

Grailhunter

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Repentance means more than simply acknowledging that some of your behaviour is wrong and sinful in the eyes of God. The idea is to please God by ceasing to do what is wrong and sinful. It makes no sense to learn that what you are doing is sinful and displeasing to God, but then CONTINUE TO DO what is sinful and displeasing to God!

Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15) - keeping His commandments means not sinning, and not sinning includes repentance. If you continue to sin, you have not repented.
Well you open up a lot topics....
Define Christ's commandments.
What constitutes sin? Since the biblical era we have seen quite the list of sins dreamed up by men.
Sin verses the application of Christianity. The focus on what not to do as opposed to what we should be doing. The love thy neighbor thing and charity has away taken backseat and given lip service to the focus and debate on sin. It has steered Christianity down the wrong path...as it is the most righteous Christian is he who lives in a closet, reads the Bible and only comes out on Sunday to go to church. The don't doers religion.
I have already covered repentance about ten ways. The Greek use of it...the biblical use of it...
You say, If you continue to sin, you have not repented. So you think you live a sinless life? So when you do sin, do you start over again? Baptize again? The repentance you speak of can only be sighted in Hebrews. Good luck with that because according Hebrews, if you go on sinning, there is no possibility of repentance or salvation, and you will sin. So bye-bye. There are a list of sins in scriptures that say you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Among those sins are debate and the division of Christ's church....good luck with that!
 

RogerDC

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Well, if you believe you have the seal of God, then its a guarantee that your name is in the book of life. You either have it or you don't, bottom line.
The seal of the Holy Spirit can be broken. Your eternal fate is not "sealed" until you die and are judged by Christ.
 

RogerDC

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We must have different bibles

Mine does not say UNTIL. And then give a condition where it can be broken

it says UNTL the day of redemption
Nowhere does it say the seal of the Holy Spirit cannot be broken (read Heb 6:4-6). If you lose your faith, will you still be "sealed"? If you commit "deadly" sins (1John 5), will you still be sealed?

That word "seal" can also be translated as "mark" - you've assumed it is automatically permanent - it isn't.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Nowhere does it say the seal of the Holy Spirit cannot be broken (read Heb 6:4-6). If you lose your faith, will you still be "sealed"? If you commit "deadly" sins (1John 5), will you still be sealed?

That word "seal" can also be translated as "mark" - you've assumed it is automatically permanent - it isn't.
Paul said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption

he did not say unless..

he did not give any means of this seal being broken

I would listen to paul. And stop calling him a liar
 
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RogerDC

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Paul said we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption

he did not say unless..

he did not give any means of this seal being broken

I would listen to paul. And stop calling him a liar
There are former Christian ministers who are now atheists - are they still "sealed" by the HS?

Reading Scriptures literally that obviously are not meant to be read literally leads to bad theology.

The "partakers of the HS" in Heb 6:4 fell away and weren't saved - what happened to their "seal"?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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There are former Christian ministers who are now atheists - are they still "sealed" by the HS?

according to the apostle John, they were never of us, if they were of us they would never have departed. But they departed to expose the fact they were never of us (1 John)

never ASSUME people are saved, even preachers.

Reading Scriptures literally that obviously are not meant to be read literally leads to bad theology.

The "partakers of the HS" in Heb 6:4 fell away and weren't saved - what happened to their "seal"?
Paul still said we are sealed until the day of redemption, if Paul wanted the people he wrote this letter to, to know there was any possibility of them losing this seal he would have told them.

your calling Paul a liar,

shame on you!
 

RogerDC

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Whatever Mary is, many regard her as part of the trinity.
Really? That’s news to me. If there are “many” Catholics who believe Mary is part of the Trinity, you shouldn’t have any trouble citing one. So go ahead. Demonstrate that you are not talking rubbish.///////////Furthermore, any “Catholic” who believes Mary is part to the Trinity is a heretic, and not a true Catholic.
I visited India, and the difference between Hinduism and adoration of statues of saints was impossible to distinguish.
God bless you.
Catholics don’t “adore” statues.
 

RogerDC

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Sadly for over a thousand years to share my faith and open heart in a Catholic country would be a death sentence from the authorities.
That says enough for me. How can following Jesus be worthy of death from the only true church?
You need to distinguish between the sins and mistakes of individual Catholics in the past and what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Which Catholic doctrine says non-Catholics must be put to death?
Mixing church and state made bishops powerful people without oversight. No wonder corruption and chaos ruled.
… which proves except Catholics are sinners too, just like everyone else.
 

RogerDC

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1. Define the "commandments of God" and the Commandments that Christ was referring to.
In the NT letters, there are many admonishments against various kinds of sins, which are in effect Christ’s “Thou shalt not …” commandments. Here are a few examples:

“For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them” (Romans 1:29-31);

“Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21);

”Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robber will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God” (1Cor 6:9-11).

Avoiding the sins mentioned in the NT are included in what Jesus means by “my commandments” in John 14:15, “my word(s)” in John 14:23-24) and “His commandments” in 1John 2:3-6. Furthermore, there is Christ direct commandment: “This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you” (John 15:12). From this commandment come many commandments, as explained by Paul in Romans 13:8-10.

When the rich man asks Jesus, “’Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’” (Luke 18:18-22), Jesus quotes some of the Ten Commandments. So these are Christ’s commandments as well.
I will argue that the Paul was talking about the works of the Law, that was not required
Paul argues that works alone don’t save - he doesn’t argue that works are irrelevant to salvation. In fact, Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins - ie, disobeying Christ’s commandments (aka “works”) - can lead them to Hell. Furthermore, as can be seen from Romans 13:8-10 and Gal 5, Paul argues that the moral laws of Moses still apply to Christians - the moral laws of Moses (regarding sexual immorality and love of God and neighbour) and are in fact eternal.
James was presenting the need to applying Christian works as helping one another.
The “need to”? Are you saying works are needed for salvation? If so, I agree - James (like Paul) argues that salvation requires not just faith, but also keeping Christ’s commandments.
James says “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” and “faith without works is dead” (James 2:24-26) - what he means by “works” is keeping Christ’s commandments.
 

RogerDC

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You say, If you continue to sin, you have not repented. So you think you live a sinless life?
None of us can lead a sinless life - and God knows we cannot lead a sinless life. That’s why He inspired John to write, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1John 1:8). But God, in his loving mercy and through Christ, has given us a way out of our sin: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1John 1:9).

Are you arguing that, since we can cannot live a sinless life, we may as well abandon ourselves to sin? If so, that is not repentance, but spiritual poison which leads to death (Romans 6:20-23).

In order to be saved, we must repent (ie, so “No” to sin) and strive to be holy - “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). To be “HOLY” means to repent and obey Christ’s commandments. To “STRIVE” does not mean to be perfect, but to do our imperfect best. We demonstrate our love for God by doing our best (albeit we sometimes fail) to keep His commandments, which includes REPENTANCE - “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Your idea of repentance empties it of all meaning and value. Have you never read Romans 6?
The repentance you speak of can only be sighted in Hebrews. Good luck with that because according Hebrews, if you go on sinning, there is no possibility of repentance or salvation, and you will sin. So bye-bye.
I assume you’re referring to Heb 6:4-8, which is referring to the sin of apostasy, which is the total rejection of the Christian faith.
 

Grailhunter

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None of us can lead a sinless life - and God knows we cannot lead a sinless life. That’s why He inspired John to write, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1John 1:8). But God, in his loving mercy and through Christ, has given us a way out of our sin: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1John 1:9).

Are you arguing that, since we can cannot live a sinless life, we may as well abandon ourselves to sin? If so, that is not repentance, but spiritual poison which leads to death (Romans 6:20-23).

In order to be saved, we must repent (ie, so “No” to sin) and strive to be holy - “Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14). To be “HOLY” means to repent and obey Christ’s commandments. To “STRIVE” does not mean to be perfect, but to do our imperfect best. We demonstrate our love for God by doing our best (albeit we sometimes fail) to keep His commandments, which includes REPENTANCE - “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15). Your idea of repentance empties it of all meaning and value. Have you never read Romans 6?I assume you’re referring to Heb 6:4-8, which is referring to the sin of apostasy, which is the total rejection of the Christian faith.
lol None of that....
 

Grailhunter

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In the NT letters, there are many admonishments against various kinds of sins, which are in effect Christ’s “Thou shalt not …” commandments. Here are a few examples:

“For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them” (Romans 1:29-31);

“Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21);

”Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robber will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God” (1Cor 6:9-11).

Avoiding the sins mentioned in the NT are included in what Jesus means by “my commandments” in John 14:15, “my word(s)” in John 14:23-24) and “His commandments” in 1John 2:3-6. Furthermore, there is Christ direct commandment: “This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you” (John 15:12). From this commandment come many commandments, as explained by Paul in Romans 13:8-10.

When the rich man asks Jesus, “’Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’” (Luke 18:18-22), Jesus quotes some of the Ten Commandments. So these are Christ’s commandments as well.Paul argues that works alone don’t save - he doesn’t argue that works are irrelevant to salvation. In fact, Paul warns believers in Gal 5 that their sins - ie, disobeying Christ’s commandments (aka “works”) - can lead them to Hell. Furthermore, as can be seen from Romans 13:8-10 and Gal 5, Paul argues that the moral laws of Moses still apply to Christians - the moral laws of Moses (regarding sexual immorality and love of God and neighbour) and are in fact eternal.The “need to”? Are you saying works are needed for salvation? If so, I agree - James (like Paul) argues that salvation requires not just faith, but also keeping Christ’s commandments.
James says “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” and “faith without works is dead” (James 2:24-26) - what he means by “works” is keeping Christ’s commandments.
Excellent list! Now compare them to the 613 Mosaic Laws......