Once Saved Always Saved Garbage Teaching!!

[David kilmer]

You have to have faith that you are not feeling well.

 

[David kilmer]

I am an encourager and do not know what people have done or not done. Jesus always is calling us on, into the life
and reality He lays through His word. When I discuss things it is not personal but about the subjects to hand. It is
how you can explore something and as a result find ways to apply it to ones own personal situation. The failure is
to assume all subjects apply to all equally, and only those that apply personally are worthwhile investigating.

God bless you

Well wasn't I only 18? But gods message, as I was told, was to ALL people, to the Jew first, then to the gentille. Hell, I didn't know.

 

[David kilmer]

I am an encourager and do not know what people have done or not done. Jesus always is calling us on, into the life
and reality He lays through His word. When I discuss things it is not personal but about the subjects to hand. It is
how you can explore something and as a result find ways to apply it to ones own personal situation. The failure is
to assume all subjects apply to all equally, and only those that apply personally are worthwhile investigating.

God bless you

Oh. Gotcha.

 

[David kilmer]

You have to have faith that you are not feeling well.

Lol. Justin.

 

[FollowHim]

I don't see any... Scripture backup in your words. I'm not here to do man's philosophy of trying to sound right at the expense of what God's Word actually teaches.

16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 3

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6

The two verses above show the problem in scripture. You can be given something as a result of something else.
It can be summarised in this case belief in Christ receives eternal life.

It leaves open what belief in Christ is, and also what eternal life is. This is like an advertising hoarding saying come
in and get some of this because it has real value.

Paul talks about sowing behaviour in ones life, either to sinful nature, or the Spirit, one receiving death and the other
eternal life. Paul is addressing our walk as believers, not prior to faith, but in faith, suggesting the end is not certain
or set, but always a goal awaiting ahead of us.

I have had people taking Jesus's promises and claiming He means a flash in the pan faith is all God requires. No where
in scripture is this true, rather that opposite. Fruit that will last is Gods standard. Consistency is everything, or put more
simply, the principles are greater than the individual, so the price of our lives is worth less than keeping the principle.

Again all slogans or summaries only have meaning in the context of the speaker. In this case Jesus says if you love Him
you will obey His commandments. For some this will sound like condemnation and rejection, but actually this is the words
of life. It drives us to ask God to change our hearts, to purify us, to transform us, to give up this world and throw all on
Him. When the complaint is this is too hard, this is not the repentant contrite heart willing to learn another way and be
changed, but a sinner saying this is unfair and unjust. Repent and believe in Christ, it is possible to walk in His ways.
The cross proves God believes this, and we who follow show this is true. God bless you.

 

[FollowHim]

Lets start with the can and cannot sin scriptures.
This debate material is offered in good conscious and fellowship. Love and respect to men and to women. Any negative attitude or demeanor falls short of expectations and objectives. The following is a list of scriptures that support the belief that you cannot sin. It includes many scriptures, but it is not a complete list. There are two sets of scriptures listed one for you cannot sin and one for you can sin. These are mostly short scriptures and I welcome anyone to read the chapters, but do not be surprised if some of the scriptures are in close proximity of scriptures that indicate you can sin. The following scriptures indicate that you cannot sin. These scriptures are from NASB….here it is….

Romans 4:15 “for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.”

1st John 3:9 “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

1st John 5:18 “We know of no one that is born of God sins; but he who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him.”

Romans 4:7&8 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

Romans 5:13 “For until the Law sin was in the world; sin is not imputed when there is no Law.”

This one is important but long, basically chapter 6. Romans 6:1 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died in sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in the newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin…….10 & 11 “For the death that He died, He did to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ. 14 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace” 18 “Being then free from sin, you become the servants of righteousness.”

Romans 7:8 “But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.”

Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath me free from the law of sin and death.”

2nd Corinthians 5:21 “He made Him that knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”

Hebrews 10:4 “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.”

1st Cor. 9:20 “And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, through not eing myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law;”

2nd Cor. 3:3 “being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts.”

Galations..Oh my gosh! Just read the whole thing!
Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?”

Galatians 5:3&4 “And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 3:12 “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.....”

Hebrews 10:1 “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near.”

From here it is up to you. Why do these scriptures pertaining to the belief you can sin and the scriptures that pertain to the belief that you cannot sin seem to struggle against one another. This is not about explaining away the scriptures that you do not like. Plain English, don’t get into imaginative interpretations to explain away scriptures. From here it is up to you ladies and gents…it is up to you, but this is why you go in circles, over and over again. Figure out where the truth is between them. Good luck and God’s speed.

Hi Grail,
What you imagine as strife is someone talking about their spiritual walk with Jesus and different stages they have
gone through. Equally the nuance between knowing the law and fulfilling it, create in the believer victory and
humbleness that only through a transformed heart is this possible.

The problem we have ultimately with sin, is sin is always referenced to God and His ways. In certain situations this
is specific to the individual. Paul put the problem like this. If I believe before God eating meat is wrong, I am sinning
to eat meat. If on the other hand, I am free to eat meat, then I am not sinning eating it. Paul was exalting our
conscience and our perception of God, and honouring this as being important in our spiritual walk.

This creates a lot of problems with certain disorders of perfectionism or compulsive behaviour, where such ideas are
actually wrong and destructive. Paul was emphasising though about being sensitive to others rules and limitations
out of love for their life and faith. God bless you

 

[Davy]

Like I said in the beginning....picking a side and explaining the other side away does not resolve anything. Go back to laa laa land. You are of no help.

What Paul taught there in Romans 6 is clear, and is as I explained it. It is those you listen to that are in la, la, land.

 

[Grailhunter]

What Paul taught there in Romans 6 is clear, and is as I explained it. It is those you listen to that are in la, la, land.

Of the lists provided please list the ones that are not clear, which ones are not inspired of God, which ones we should ignore.

 

[Davy]

16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 3

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6

The two verses above show the problem in scripture. You can be given something as a result of something else.
It can be summarised in this case belief in Christ receives eternal life.

It leaves open what belief in Christ is, and also what eternal life is. This is like an advertising hoarding saying come
in and get some of this because it has real value.

Paul talks about sowing behaviour in ones life, either to sinful nature, or the Spirit, one receiving death and the other
eternal life. Paul is addressing our walk as believers, not prior to faith, but in faith, suggesting the end is not certain
or set, but always a goal awaiting ahead of us.

I have had people taking Jesus's promises and claiming He means a flash in the pan faith is all God requires. No where
in scripture is this true, rather that opposite. Fruit that will last is Gods standard. Consistency is everything, or put more
simply, the principles are greater than the individual, so the price of our lives is worth less than keeping the principle.

Again all slogans or summaries only have meaning in the context of the speaker. In this case Jesus says if you love Him
you will obey His commandments. For some this will sound like condemnation and rejection, but actually this is the words
of life. It drives us to ask God to change our hearts, to purify us, to transform us, to give up this world and throw all on
Him. When the complaint is this is too hard, this is not the repentant contrite heart willing to learn another way and be
changed, but a sinner saying this is unfair and unjust. Repent and believe in Christ, it is possible to walk in His ways.
The cross proves God believes this, and we who follow show this is true. God bless you.

Apparently, you're not studied enough in God's Word to understand how many brethren are going to be turned away by our Lord Jesus when He returns because they fell away to follow men's traditions that led them astray. The five foolish virgins of Matt.25 is one of our Lord Jesus' examples, and it destroys the OSAS doctrine of men completely, because the five foolish virgins also had their lamps with the Oil in them, and were waiting on the bridegroom (i.e, Jesus in the parable). Yet He closed the door on them. He gave us another example with the unprofitable servant in that same Matt.25 chapter, which represents a believer on Him that didn't work for Him.

Does that mean those are lost forever, because He will refuse them when He comes? If you have been taught they are lost and will be destroyed, then you haven't understood enough of God's Word, especially what Christ's future Millennium reign is for. Those who have believed on Jesus will be saved, but some brethren that are led astray to men's doctrines in this world will stand in judgement throughout Christ's future 'thousand years' reign. They will not... reign with Him for that thousand years. Apostle Paul hinted at this in 1 Cor.5 with the Church member there who was sleeping with his mother. Paul said to cast that one to Satan so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus...

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

 

[FollowHim]

Apparently, you're not studied enough in God's Word to understand how many brethren are going to be turned away by our Lord Jesus when He returns because they fell away to follow men's traditions that led them astray. The five foolish virgins of Matt.25 is one of our Lord Jesus' examples, and it destroys the OSAS doctrine of men completely, because the five foolish virgins also had their lamps with the Oil in them, and were waiting on the bridegroom (i.e, Jesus in the parable). Yet He closed the door on them. He gave us another example with the unprofitable servant in that same Matt.25 chapter, which represents a believer on Him that didn't work for Him.

Does that mean those are lost forever, because He will refuse them when He comes? If you have been taught they are lost and will be destroyed, then you haven't understood enough of God's Word, especially what Christ's future Millennium reign is for. Those who have believed on Jesus will be saved, but some brethren that are led astray to men's doctrines in this world will stand in judgement throughout Christ's future 'thousand years' reign. They will not... reign with Him for that thousand years. Apostle Paul hinted at this in 1 Cor.5 with the Church member there who was sleeping with his mother. Paul said to cast that one to Satan so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus...

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Let me say in a sense there are those for whom OSAS is true and for others not true.
It is why I try and talk about ones heart and where one is travelling.

I remember when the stories seemed to not connect up, but when you see the story of the talents.
For the one who has 5 talents, and makes 5 talents more, they are OSAS.
For the one with 1 talent who does nothing and buries it, they believe they are secure, but in the
end are rejected. So which of these things is real, or even worthwhile arguing about?

I suspect those who want OSAS so badly have yet to really see Jesus, and anxiousness and betrayal
lies too close to their hearts, and they have yet to embrace the cross and its bold, brutal statement of
infinite love from God to man, which is only missed because of mans sin and blindness.

Most of the OSAS who have argued so strongly know of their abiding sin, and feel condemned if they
stand before Jesus, rather than washed and purified by His blood. What stronger statement does one
need of unbelief than that. We stand because Christ washed us clean, and we stand because we abide
in Him and nothing else. God bless you

 

[Davy]

Let me say in a sense there are those for whom OSAS is true and for others not true.
It is why I try and talk about ones heart and where one is travelling.

I remember when the stories seemed to not connect up, but when you see the story of the talents.
For the one who has 5 talents, and makes 5 talents more, they are OSAS.
For the one with 1 talent who does nothing and buries it, they believe they are secure, but in the
end are rejected. So which of these things is real, or even worthwhile arguing about?

I suspect those who want OSAS so badly have yet to really see Jesus, and anxiousness and betrayal
lies too close to their hearts, and they have yet to embrace the cross and its bold, brutal statement of
infinite love from God to man, which is only missed because of mans sin and blindness.

Most of the OSAS who have argued so strongly know of their abiding sin, and feel condemned if they
stand before Jesus, rather than washed and purified by His blood. What stronger statement does one
need of unbelief than that. We stand because Christ washed us clean, and we stand because we abide
in Him and nothing else. God bless you

And I'm talking about those who are not... 'called and chosen' that claim they are, which is who is pushing OSAS doctrines of men.

In John 17, our Lord Jesus revealed 2 different groups of believers on Him. The first group are His very elect 'sent' servants that The Father gave Him. Jesus then prayed that those who believe by their word (i.e., by His Apostles' preaching), that both groups would become one in Him and in The Father. That's the idea that they all... become the elect Church. However, Christ's called and chosen ones, like His sent ones, His Apostles, could never be turned, never become apostate, because John 17 shows previous ownership of those.

But for those of the second group in John 17, a previous ownership is NOT shown. And those only come to Christ once they hear The Gospel preached by Christ's chosen Apostles. That second group are 'called' only. And they can... fall away, and become apostates, IF they choose, or allow themselves to be deceived by quit heeding The Holy Spirit. This is why Christ and His Apostles issued so many warnings against falling away. That's not for His chosen elect, it's for the second group of believers in John 17 that only stay elect by staying faithful to Christ Jesus, all the way to the end.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have fa I th in myself. Faith in the father as well, whom the father is. The Bible, or lord, says faith without works is dead.

Pro 28:26, He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[David kilmer]

If somebody gets saved once wouldn't that status always stay the same even if they stay themself? Or do they truly have to 109 percent change? I don't think they have to. Yes or no?

 

[David kilmer]

Does Christ end all?

 

[David kilmer]

"Christianity isn't the all end all solution". SG!

 

[David kilmer]

Hi u have to change?

 

[David kilmer]

Is hate for me in generally or because of my father? But why to me to each his own or isn't everyone their own being?

 

[David kilmer]

I thought being you and learning and evolving was natural or normal. It is isn't it?!

 

[David kilmer]

I was the so called " ideal" person for a short time. My bad works outweigh my good. grandparents molested me!

 

[Ezra]

It is never ok to continue in sin....and most people have no desire to continue in it...

bingo this knowing these principals the debate over eternal security as per arguments is endless. it will never be settled