Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

I see you're as "adept" at cherry-picking my posts as you are at cherry-picking Scripture - but you have FAILED on both counts.

Eh...why bother, when you do not understand anyway.

First off - I asked you to show me ONE verse that even implies that we are to accept Jesus as "personal Lord and Savior."
EPIC FAIL.

Rom 5:8
Christ died FOR US.....well for those who believe and submit TO CHRIST.

I will presume you have a short memory and do not recall being TOLD...on more than one occasion;
BELIEVE in your heart, Call on the Lords Name and Confess.....

[/QUOTE]I also showed you that you were DEAD wrong about "belief" being the criteria for being incorporated into the Body of Christ (James 2:19). You failed here as well.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps in the Catholic doctrine BELIEF is not necessary.....or even that a person PERSONALLY confesses their BELIEF IN THE Lord TO Christ the Lord..... but not the first whacky thing of the Catholic doctrine I seen you mention.

Umm mmm, speaking of "wolves" - and not very bright ones at that . . .

No need to go off on personal things about yourself to me.

 

[Taken]

You keep posting these LONG, verbose rants - but ALL I have asked you for is ONE verse that substantiates what you are saying. All you ever give are your own opinions - and you know what they say about opinions . . .

So far, you have FAILED to produce ONE verse that says a man can "never" lose his secure position with God by his own doing.
On the other hand - I have presented over a DOZEN that say he can.

STILL waiting for that ONE verse . . .

"THAT ONE VERSE"? You have been given several verses....and you could be given the entire Bible....YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND!

 

[BreadOfLife]

You deny the indwelling Holy Spirit, you've made that obvious BOL. God bless.

Not at all.
I deny man made doctrines.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Eh...why bother, when you do not understand anyway.
Rom 5:8
Christ died FOR US.....well for those who believe and submit TO CHRIST.

I will presume you have a short memory and do not recall being TOLD...on more than one occasion;
BELIEVE in your heart, Call on the Lords Name and Confess.....
Perhaps in the Catholic doctrine BELIEF is not necessary.....or even that a person PERSONALLY confesses their BELIEF IN THE Lord TO Christ the Lord..... but not the first whacky thing of the Catholic doctrine I seen you mention.

No need to go off on personal things about yourself to me.

First of all, my post was in response to Heb 13:8, NOT you - so I don't know why you're taking this so personally . . .

Secondly - YOU failed - just as HE did to provide a verse that substantiates your Protestant mantra of "accepting" Jesus as "Personal Lord and Savior."

Finally - if you're going to butt in on a conversation - try to pay attention to what is being discussed.
At NO time did I ever state that belief was NOT necessary. I said that it is an important component of faith - but NOT the entire thing.

Better luck with your next response . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"THAT ONE VERSE"? You have been given several verses....and you could be given the entire Bible....YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND!

Please - just humor me and share it again because I haven't seen it . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Not at all.
I deny man made doctrines.

Which is wut ur preaching, works.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Secondly - YOU failed - just as HE did to provide a verse that substantiates your Protestant mantra of "accepting" Jesus as "Personal Lord and Savior."

BOL, there are many scriptures that prove the indwelling Holy Spirit. How much more personal can God be?

 

[Phoneman777]

You are either saved !!! Or Not!

Once saved is for ever............ but what you do on this earth gives you your position in the heavens.........

So, when Jesus said the Unmerciful Servant asked for and was granted full pardon for his impossible debt, but then wound up having that impossible debt reinstated bc of his refusal to manifest the merciful, loving, compassionate character of his lord, Jesus meant to say that once our impossible debt of sin is pardoned, we're guaranteed a punched ticket on the Heavenly Express, regardless if we learn to or not manifest His merciful, loving, compassionate character?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Which is wut ur preaching, works.

No, it's not.
That's the usual false, anti-Catholic charge.

It's simply acknowledging that true faith if FAR moire than simple belief.

 

[Phoneman777]

Who said I doubt my salvation?
I'm as sure of it as you are of yours.

I'm just willing to admit that it's POSSIBLE to lose it if I DON'T stay close to Jesus always.

If I have faith in our Lord..........I'm saved
If I don't have faith in our Lord...I'm not saved

Faith is the necessary quality for salvation.
If one decides to stop following Christ, then he will no longer be saved.
Mathew 7:23-24
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROMME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Those who practice lawlessness will not enter into the Kingdom of heaven - they will be told to depart.
Those who hear the words of Jesus and ACTS on them will be as a wise man.

I'm glad you see the simplicity of it all. What warped thinking is necessary to conclude that a converted person who trusted in Jesus alone for salvation but after a few years decides to adopt a daily lifestyle of Satan worship, idolatrous image veneration, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, desecrating the Sabbath, dishonoring father and mother, and killing, stealing from, lying to, coveting the things of and fornicating with his neighbors...yet is somehow still heaven bound with only a few less jewels in his crown that awaits him?

Jesus said the Unmerciful Servant was once forgiven of his impossible debt, but wound up required to pay it again bc he refused to allow the character of his lord to become his own, and likewise, when we are forgiven our impossible sin debt, we are safe only as far as we are daily allowing the Holy Spirit to change us more and more into His image, and the minute we start saying "no" to Him, we step out from under the umbrella of grace into the hostile, poisonous ultraviolet rays of condemnation and the longer we choose to stay, the lesser our ability to hear Jesus calling us back under that umbrella becomes until finally His voice is heard no more...and we are eternally lost.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, there are many scriptures that prove the indwelling Holy Spirit. How much more personal can God be?

Indwelling of the holy Spirit says NOTHING about "accepting" Jesus as "Personal Lord and Savior" - especially since YOU'VE stated repeatedly that WE do nothing.

 

[Heb 13:8]

No, it's not.
That's the usual false, anti-Catholic charge.

It's simply acknowledging that true faith if FAR moire than simple belief.

If belief was that simple, we wouldn't have so much anger in the world towards the cross. The devil is pissed because he's already been defeated. His only weapon left is to accuse true believers in Christ. It's sad. the lake of burning sulfer, torment day and night.

Does a false prophet know they're false though? Based on scripture they have no idea what they're doing. I suppose the only way to heal their blindness is through prayer and the seed being planted. Maybe spiritual blindness is part of His plan. It's suppose to be this way like scoffers in the end times. Wow.

What Does the Bible Say About Spiritual Blindness?

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

2 Cor 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1 Jhn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I'm glad you see the simplicity of it all. What warped thinking is necessary to conclude that a converted person who trusted in Jesus alone for salvation but after a few years decides to adopt a daily lifestyle of Satan worship, idolatrous image veneration, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, desecrating the Sabbath, dishonoring father and mother, and killing, stealing from, lying to, coveting the things of and fornicating with his neighbors...yet is somehow still heaven bound with only a few less jewels in his crown that awaits him?

Warped thinking? Here we go again

Rom 8:33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one--for God himself has given us right standing with himself.

Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Indwelling of the holy Spirit says NOTHING about "accepting" Jesus as "Personal Lord and Savior"

BOL, where does the indwelling take place?

Mat 13:11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Col 1:27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: Christ lives in you. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

God bless

 

[Taken]

EVERYBODY who is not in Christ will suffer the same fate.

Quote me saying otherwise.

YOU don't get to "change" the rules that GOD has established.

Quote this supposed rule change.

 

[Taken]

Please - just humor me and share it again because I haven't seen it . . .

You are all over the place.

Which "it" are you again asking?

 

[epostle1]

If you want to accept John Calvin's OSAS, that's up to you. He invented it. Your replies to BoL are all over the map. Salvation by works is an anti-Catholic myth.

"Personal Lord and Savior" is a slogan. It's not explicit in scripture no matter how many verses you quote. The concept is not contested but it's not the whole story. The gospel was delivered to a community, preserved by a community, then written for a community. Jesus taught us to pray "OUR Father..." not MY Father. The Bible, Christianity, does not teach extreme individualism, and that is where "personal Lord and Savior" leads. Personal intimacy with the Lord is a good thing, but too much individualism has contributed to the undermining of the community. and cancerous division.

Two intellectual offspring of the Enlightenment include radical individualism and secularism. Their origins and causes are complex, but their reality is something that we live with day in and day out, as we are all affected deeply, but unreflectively, by their influence. And both are inimical to the Gospel of Christ.

Thoughts on individualism and secularism - Today's Catholic
Individualism | Catholic Answers

 

[BreadOfLife]

If belief was that simple, we wouldn't have so much anger in the world towards the cross. The devil is pissed because he's already been defeated. His only weapon left is to accuse true believers in Christ. It's sad. the lake of burning sulfer, torment day and night.

Does a false prophet know they're false though? Based on scripture they have no idea what they're doing. I suppose the only way to heal their blindness is through prayer and the seed being planted. Maybe spiritual blindness is part of His plan. It's suppose to be this way like scoffers in the end times. Wow.
What Does the Bible Say About Spiritual Blindness?

Matt 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
2 Cor 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

1 Jhn 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And you KEEP glossing over the fact that belief does NOT equal faith.

As I educated you earlier - James 2:19 tells us emphatically that even the DEMONS believe. This is the ENTIRE point of James 2 - to show that belief by itself is insufficient.

You cannot have TRUE faith without obedience - and obedience requires ACTION.
This is why Luther hated the Epistle of James. He tried to remove it from his German translation, referring to it as the "Epistle of Straw."

Unfortunately, YOU and many of his other ecclesial descendants fell into the same trap . . .

 

[Helen]

There has been many posts on this forum outlining why OSAS is a wrong doctrine.
I'm not wasting my time posting more of them.

Wow, did you notice that this thread that you started ...now has well over 3000 posts in it.
Probably because of the continual circular repetitive postings

But, well done for starting a thread which never dies...and never has an ending or conclusion. Two thumbs up for you!

 

[Heb 13:8]

And you KEEP glossing over the fact that belief does NOT equal faith.

BOL, James 2 is referring to lack of Godly righteousness, it has nothing to do with losing salvation.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

God bless

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, James 2 is referring to lack of Godly righteousness, it has nothing to do with losing salvation.

pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

God bless

And I never said that James 2 was about LOSING salvation - so how about trying to be honest for a change??
I said that James 2 is all about what TRUE faith is - and belief is just ONE component of faith.

James goes on to that you shouldn't be too content to just "believe" because even the DEMONS believe and tremble (James 2:19). James stresses the following Biblical fact:
Faith = Belief + Obedience (Works)

 

[Heb 13:8]

And I never said that James 2 was about LOSING salvation - so how about trying to be honest for a change??

Awesome.