No, I preach the finished work of the cross. I preach Grace Salvation which is depending on His work to keep us saved and not ours. Anything beyond that are lies the devil is feeding you. Don't listen to the voices GG.
Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.
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No, I preach the finished work of the cross. I preach Grace Salvation which is depending on His work to keep us saved and not ours. Anything beyond that are lies the devil is feeding you. Don't listen to the voices GG.
No you're not, you believe you still have to work to keep God's free gift. We can actually know now that we have eternal life at first resurrection or rapture. Did John not have confidence when he wrote this passage?? Are we believing in the Son of God now or the afterlife?? Are we asking things according to his will now or in the afterlife?? Wake up, time is short! Accept Jesus!
1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
Where is the charity in this?
Each of us believes what we believe and hopefully we live as best we can by what believe. Obviously we do not all agree. Until we have it all right all of the time how can we condemn anyone else? Does not that decision belong to God alone ?
Solomon wrote the following words long before Jesus was born in Bethlehem but they still apply today:
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
The way to always be right is to always be on God's side, but when are making God's decisions for Him, on whose side are we likely to be? What is our reward likely to be?
"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:2
Exactly, Jesus is going to tell them, I never knew you.
You preached works salvation and were not my sheep.
Depart from me, wolves of iniquity.
A Tree and its Fruit
(Matthew 12:33-37; Luke 6:43-45)
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I give up. You win. Have the last word. I'll check in at post #238947676 and see how your evasion and denial tactics are working for you.
- Once Saved, Always Saved, A Verse by Verse Anlaysis
The Devil’s Lie: Once Saved, Always Saved | Catholic ...
Your response is, I believe, very much in error. What Jesus wants from us is a perfect heart and a willing mind toward Him in spite of wrong doctrines or beliefs. There will effectively be King Davids, [the ones who are the apple of his eye], and King Sauls [the ones who are rejected] in most church groups without little or no regard to doctrinal differences. I really don't believe that people miss the Lord simply because they have the wrong doctrine or belief through ignorance when they have a perfect heart with a willing mind toward God. We can only see the difference between those who end up on the Lord's side and those who do not if we are able to see the really important difference between King David and King Saul.
If a person is right on the issue of this thread [and/or many other threads] but his heart is wrong with God at the end he will still be rejected. The heart is the most important thing to God. How like God are we? How God are we striving to become?
Properly understood and applied those words could be wise, but at the end of our course what will matter to God is what we have done with what we had available to us:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
Oh, so I'm in denial of my own testimony?
Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Phl 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
1 John 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
Pray for this man Heb, for he does not know what he is doing.
Does scripture not differentiate between sheep and wolves, believers vs nonbelievers? Is it not belief in the death, burial, resurrection that separates us?
Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
Act 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
God bless
When it comes to the final decision I would say that it is only that which is written in our hearts and what we have done with it that separates any of us. Without God's help we cannot even see the darknesses in our own hearts much less those of others. This is why we are not the ones to render that final judgment.
Your verses are good ones, but the determination that you are right and all who disagree are wrong is meaningless based on your judgment alone... and this is so even if you are right on the doctrine. It comes back to every man being right in his own eyes. Only what God sees and what God judges matters in the end.
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I would disagree. It's rather based on whether you believe the Word of God. God bless.
Our problem is then greater than that since what you call the Word of God would almost certainly be different than what I call the Word of God. But God understand both of our viewpoints better than we do.
Well that's it isn't it. Either Christ died for past, present and future sins or He did not, Rom 8:38-39. It all comes down to belief and God's testimony?
Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Phl 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
By God's testimony I assume you mean the written scriptures. I am OK with the scriptures, but how many denominations exist today that proclaim that they are based on those scriptures yet on numerous points disagree sometimes sharply effectively to the point of saying if you disagree you are dead to God?Well that's it isn't it. Either Christ died for past, present and future sins or He did not, Rom 8:38-39. It all comes down to belief and God's testimony?
No, none of those things can separate from His Love, but we can certainly pull away on our own. The dominion of ourselves was given to us and has never been taken away. This will remain until we have no more time. God limited Himself in this. The limitation on Him remains and only we can change that. We don't give Him the reins we are lost, but always the potential remains for us to take them back and every time we quench the Holy Spirit of God in us the reins are in our hands again. The condition of the United States as per the census at about 80% Christian looks more like that percentage or more as it is mostly demonic. Of course, I suppose some would say the Census Bureau knows more than me:
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Gen 1:28
" Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41
Jesus made it possible for us to do better, but the choice still always remains ours until there are no more choices
The work in us is by and through the Holy Spirit in us. It will be completed only if a person allows it to be done in him unhindered. Every time person quenches the Holy Spirit, the work is delayed or stopped. God is merciful but time is limited for each of us. Our allowed time is the limit of God's mercy.
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No, quenching the spirit affects sanctification and discipline, it does not remove the seed that was planted into a believer upon salvation. Individual conception has already taken place, less you believe God is for spiritual abortion? God removing the seed of salvation because of disobedience is not biblical. Being "born of God" is a permanent condition of the heart.
1. We are heirs of His promise according to the seed
2. We are born of imperishable seed not perishable according to the seed
3. God's seed remains in them according to the seed
Gal 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.
Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
God bless
Amadeus:
I do see a real disconnect in your view and mine based on what you wrote here…..it is a little disconcerting if it is your view of yours or anyone else's state of salvation.
You said: “The work in us is by and through the Holy Spirit in us. It will be completed only if a person allows it to be done in him unhindered. Every time person quenches the Holy Spirit, the work is delayed or stopped. God is merciful but time is limited for each of us. Our allowed time is the limit of God's mercy.”
And you said: "No, none of those things can separate from His Love, but we can certainly pull away on our own. The dominion of ourselves was given to us and has never been taken away. This will remain until we have no more time. God limited Himself in this.
Jesus made it possible for us to do better, but the choice still always remains ours until there are no more choices”
The first paragraph is an impossibility for any man or woman to achieve. We shall sometimes quench the spirit within us, and we shall hinder the work of the spirit from time to time. You have boxed yourself into a corner using some type of mix of misrepresented scripture or by outright unscriptural basis.
We are not perfect Amadeus. We cannot deliver on this promise you suggest. No one can be saved under your criteria. The work of the spirit will never be finished in this corrupt state.
What do you mean by ‘Our allowed time is the limit of God’s mercy?” It sounded like you are saying if God ‘sees’ we are not becoming perfect on his time line he will cut us loose? I don’t think anyone can meet his standards. So how many times can we quench the spirit to be cut loose? I hope I'm completely wrong in what you are saying here.
What do you mean by the dominion was given to ourselves?..in what over the animals..what else? Are you somehow fusing this concept of dominion you suggest here with a type of restraining power over God’s spirt and its working within us? I hope not!
Where is your primal logic or reasoning coming from here for this dominion theory and your limits of God's mercy theory?
Bless you,
APAK
bbyrd009
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"the glory You gave to Me I now give to them"
"that they may be (elohim) as We are (elohim)" oh, wrong v maybe, but it's in There somewhere
Rollo Tamasi
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You cannot lose faith in Jesus Christ unless you had faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul addressed even former believers as still having His seal to depart from iniquity if they wish to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and not become castaways and thus received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.
2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So His disciples are to call even former believers; those who err from the truth by believing in that false science, the evolution theory, in overthrowing their faith, are still called to go before that throne of grace for help in seeing the lies of the world and the truth in His words for Him to help them to believe in Him again. That call is to be given out by all believers in seeking others to lean on Him for help in laying aside every weight & sin so they can run that race for the high prize of our calling and that is to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.
Those abiding in Him are seeking that other believers may also obtain the "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus to be that vessel unto honor in His House, as Paul cites this as our faithful saying that any who deny Him, He will deny.. BUT although we believe not, He is faithful BECAUSE He still abides in us as our Savior for why those left behind will be received as vessels unto dishonor in His HOUSE!!!!!! That is His glory as our Saviour for all who believed in Him!
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
I believe we are seeing this the same way bbyrd...not about salvation through works here.. it's about salvation through grace and the gift of faith to salvation.
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