Helen
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Yes, because we have read along ....and sometimes responded, since we read post number 1.
No doubt long before your time here!!
Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.
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Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Yes, because we have read along ....and sometimes responded, since we read post number 1.
No doubt long before your time here!!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Name one relationship that does not require your participation.....
You can call it works or fruit....it doesn’t matter. If you do not participate in your relationship with God it will cease to sanctify you and wither on the vine. People who preach easy salvation are misguided and only preach to the false self - branding people Christian is not going to save anyone
You can call it works or fruit....it doesn’t matter. If you do not participate in your relationship with God it will cease to sanctify you and wither on the vine. People who preach easy salvation are misguided and only preach to the false self - branding people Christian is not going to save anyone
I can not give you an answer reflective of reasons for people to reject the Lords offering of Salvation.
?? Could you be more specific? I do not find anything in Matt or Ezek 18 of Salvation being given then revoked.
Thanks for sharing Romans 11 about Faith, however Receiving Salvation ONCE is the topic.
God Bless,
Taken
Matthew 18 - Christ warns of "Forgiveness revoked"
Ezek 18 - God warns of "forgiveness revoked"
Jeremiah 18 - God informs us that all His promises are conditional
Romans 11 -- "you stand only by your faith.. you should fear for if He did not spare them neither will He spare you.. to you God kindness IF you continue otherwise you too will be cut off"
Sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and tradition - is the way of salvation.
If you are equating "rejecting salvation" with "sola scriptura testing of doctrine" then iit may indicate that your tradition has strayed far from the text of scripture.
I said "forgiveness revoked"
And in Matthew 18 you saw this "I FORGAVE you ALL that debt because you asked me"
followed by "turn him over to the torturers until he should REPAY ALL"
followed by "JUST SO shall My Father do to each one of you - IF you do not forgive your brother from hear heart".
And then you reply with the idea that there is nothing there about "Forgiveness revoked"?? seriously??
Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
You are welcomed.
God bless.
Bob
Haha!! No...don't even try...much is repetition anyway.
It is a bit of a circular discussion.
Bless you...H
Ok that is an interesting point that I missed the first time I read your post.
I would like to have your take on the "circular discussion". Some folks step back and take in the whole picture and I find it helpful if they share from that POV.
If I did, I certainly don't remember what was in them all.
But you are suggesting that it is at least "possible" that you might have read all 3200 posts!!
I say you deserve some sort of t-shirt or ribbon or something along with "ByGrace" who it appears may also have read all 3200. I say that is quite an accomplishment. In addition to well-known-member maybe they could add well-read-member.
I don't read many of the posts on the many threads on the forum. But, if I get interested in a particular subject I may. Usually however very long threads don't hold my interest as the arguments presented on many subjects tend to be repetitive. Beyond a certain point they will no longer edify anyone.But you are suggesting that it is at least "possible" that you might have read all 3200 posts!!
I say you deserve some sort of t-shirt or ribbon or something along with "ByGrace" who it appears may also have read all 3200. I say that is quite an accomplishment. In addition to well-known-member maybe they could add well-read-member.
On this particular thread because of the subject, my guess would be, no, I have not read them all. It is a common subject for this every other Christian forum of my experience. Every argument on both sides have been given too many times to be of interest or of use.
Helen
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I say you deserve some sort of t-shirt or ribbon or something along with "ByGrace" who it appears may also have read all 3200. I say that is quite an accomplishment. In addition to well-known-member maybe they could add well-read-member.
No, it's really not as impressive as it seems...it's just like our daily walk with the Lord. Just one day at a time. Just only 6 months..
At one time, believe it or not...I tried and often succeeded in reading every thread as the were posted into...
But, when the 'atmosphere' of this Site changed with so much nasty arguing and name calling...I then only clicked into threads which I may be interested in replying to.
But, I do "have the gist" of most of the threads here.
That can happen when a person is 76 years old with some failing health...and has lots of time on their hands.
By the way...in case you missed it back on page 'whatever'...once saved always saved...once a son, always a son...
No, it's really not as impressive as it seems...it's just like our daily walk with the Lord. Just one day at a time. Just only 6 months..
At one time, believe it or not...I tried and often succeeded in reading every thread as the were posted into...
But, when the 'atmosphere' of this Site changed with so much nasty arguing and name calling...I then only clicked into threads which I may be interested in replying to.
But, I do "have the gist" of most of the threads here.
That can happen when a person is 76 years old with some failing health...and has lots of time on their hands.
By the way...in case you missed it back on page 'whatever'...once saved always saved...once a son, always a son...
Interesting. I applaud your patience and devotion to the topic -- esp this thread.
Adam is called "the son of God" in the Gospels. Luke 3:38. -- from the moment of his creation.
But if Adam was never lost - then he never needed salvation, never needed a Savior.
I find the arguments very helpful.
I find the arguments that affirm OSAS helpful in that they approximate the best logic/rational/list-of-texts that can be found in favor of it.
I find the texts from the Bible that refute OSAS very helpful because they are presented in the context of some of the best arguments that can be found in favor of OSAS. And if they are not wiped out immediately by the response - then it is an indication that they are in fact "keepers" and may even been "irrefutable".
Both sides win if they will allow themselves to "improve" their responses and benefit from the mistakes pointed out in their line of reasoning.
What I have not found to be true so far - is the fiction that truth and error on the same doctrine - have equal amount of support from scripture.
What is in fact very reliable is the tendency of one side of the debate to "Back away from the Bible details" when those details are irrefutable and no answer can be had for the point they expose, the flaw they expose.
We can all retreat to "I don't care what you say or how illogical my POV appears given this particular detail... you can't change my mind". No news there .No rocket science. Nothing really interesting there.
The challenge is not to retreat into that cave and to show that a given POV is affirmed in scripture even under close review.
I hear your words although for me while some scriptures may seem to me irrefutably on the one side, I know that some people are absolutely adamant that the scriptures on their side to them are irrefutable. Which side however belongs to God? I would say the side of charity/love. That should be always where we want to be.
While I understand why you like to hear arguments from the other side and how they can be helpful, when you have heard them all before, not once but many times it can get quite tiresome. This OSAS subject is one of those for which there really has been nothing new under the sun for me for a very long time. Still, after a while of avoiding it I will sometimes find myself drawn back one more time. God's reasons, I believe.
I should read 3 chapters and that will tell me "forgiveness is given and then revoked"?
Oh, now I should read four Chapters?
Many things Lead a person TOWARD Salvation, However the receiving of Salvation is Once and Forever.
Whoa .... where are you coming up with that?
No, there is no "if" or "then", since I did not say what you said.
Yes you did. I didn't.
First of alll you gave 2 Chapeters, VOID of identifying any verses. I am not a mind reader.
And seriously, I am yet to see you provide anything that says forgiveness is GIVEN and then REVOKED.
V-23....
THEY also,
If THEY,
THEM
Whom do you think THEY, THEY, THEM are?
God Bless,
Taken
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By the way...in case you missed it back on page 'whatever'...once saved always saved...once a son, always a son...
Once a son, always a son, even when the son IS the father.
Remembrance of the Son of God, does not negate the Son is the Father.
God Bless,
Taken
Luke 12:45-46
How about this:
But if that servant (the Christian) shall say in his heart,
My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and the maidservants and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the unfaithful.
Think about it!
OSAS? I say no.
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bbyrd009
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"no absolute truth can be stated from Scripture" iow; any perspective can find support?
bbyrd009
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But if that servant (the Christian) shall say in his heart,
My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and the maidservants (Muslims) and to eat and drink, and to be drunken (build big towers, buy big houses and Cadillacs and trophy wives, buy a second house even, overthrow democratically elected governments, etc)
My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and the maidservants (Muslims) and to eat and drink, and to be drunken (build big towers, buy big houses and Cadillacs and trophy wives, buy a second house even, overthrow democratically elected governments, etc)
The servant Is Always "The Christian" ?
Is there not People "learning about Jesus? following His Teachings? Believing? Encouraging others to come and hear and Follow? Calling themselves Christians?
WHO...have Not themselves Committed themselves to Becoming Saved and Born Again?
And what about the Jews who love and follow and believe IN Thee God and the Word of God...unaccepting that a man called Jesus IS the Word of God In the Flesh? Are they servants of God?
And What about the Jews who Accept Jesus as The Word of God having come in the Flesh, are they servants? They do Not call themselves Christians.
In Short... point being, calling yourself or another a Christian IS not the means that measures whether or not a man IS saved and Born Again or a Servant of God.
Who is CUT out?
The man Who Willing Gave his life To the Lord, ? Was crucified With Him? Reached out and Accepted His Forgiveness? Reached out and Accepted His Gift of Salvation of his soul? Reached out and Accepted His Gift of His Seed to birth the man a new spirit? Reached out and Accepted His Holy Spirit to forever be WITH and IN the man?
And what? You think the Lord an UNKNOWING Fool that a man could Trick the Lord and Ack FOR and Receive such Great Gifts from God....and then the man later Decide...oops...it was a lie...ha ha Fooled God...??
Think about it!
A man Accepting The Lords Gift of Salvation and His Seed, does so BY the True Thoughts of HIS Natural Truth (ie natural spirit/Truth) in his "Heart"......Heart! Not mind...Heart!
And there is that itty bitty Caveat...
The Lord:
1) searches a mans heart
2) he knows all things
If the mans Confession IS False....there Are no gifts of Conversion Given that man!
(that man might Fool a human congregation observing the mans confession....however ultimately...it is God who can not be fooled!)
And If the mans Confession From his Heart Be True...
Then What? Do you sit Waiting for a phone call, a text message From God Wondering IF He uh ... Actually Gave you His Gifts of Conversion?
Uh no. The Lord Is Faithful and Quick.
A Conversion is immediate.
Forgiveness for disbelief is immediate.
The SOUL is restored and saved immediately.
The OLD natural Heart is circumcised, cut off immediately.
A NEW heart is Given immediately.
His Seed enters the new heart immediately.
His Seed Births a mans new spirit immediately.
His Holy Spirit, makes His ABODE With and In that mans Heart immediately....FOREVER.
Guess Who is the Power in Control of That man...who just Freely CHOSE To Truthfully Give the Lord Control OF his Life...body, soul and spirit?
The mans power? LOL, uh no.
And Does God Stand Against Himself ? Ever?
Even when the Lords Power is within a man heart, Whom the Lord searched the mans heart, and the man gave a True concession?The Lords Power is going to enter that man, be given that man.....only to have The Lords Power Stand Against the Lord? Uh no, God forbid.
Scriptural Warnings are Clear to mankind....
Learn and know what it means To ACCEPT the Lords OFFERING of His gifs For Conversion....And BE SURE...In you Heart...you are willing To Accept His Gifts with Everything that goes along with your Acceptance. (Cause there are many things it entails....and one of the big things IS you will be Hated and pursecuted By those IN the World.)
Why?
Is the Lord a liar? Is the Lords Power Faulty?Must the Lord repeatedly Save a man Before His Supreme Power kicks in and Is Supreme?
And the man Who IS saved...what?
Can he "change his mind"?
Perhaps you did not notice....a mans "MIND" 1) is against God
2) is Not part of the equation or considered for a man To Reach out and ACCEPT Gods Gifts of Forgiveness for disbelief, Accept the Lords Gift of Salvation, a new heart, His Seed, a born again spirit, or His Holy Spirit.
A mans MIND can ONLY begin to become Christ-like After a man Is Converted ...(and the man LISTENS TO ) ......the thoughts of his New Heart, (instead of his carnal mind)... being Fed Gods Truth, By the Indwelling Spirit of God...)
Please do reveal where Scripture has taught you...Gods OWN POWER Within a man Fails and Salvation Once "Given" a Man IS Revoked.
KEY words....ONCE Given....not Offered, Given.
God Bless,
Taken
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