Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[amadeus]

And do you not know what a false prophet is, when it's been starring you in the face for years? Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, Matt 7:22-23.

Apparently you did not even read with understanding my post #3297. It had nothing to do with false prophets.
"Jesus wept"

 

[Heb 13:8]

Apparently you did not even read with understanding my post #3297. It had nothing to do with false prophets.
"Jesus wept"

Right, hungry and thirsty and gullible people following wolves on Christians forums. Jesus weeps for the lost.

 

[BobRyan]

• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is true (16.67%)
  
  
• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine. (50%)
  
  
• Not sure. (33.33%)

Hmmm one of the few times my view is in the majority..

Where did that survey come from?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I believe you have missed the point. Faith is the noun, the subject in which these people have not obtained. The main reason why people do not come to a "saving faith" is because they have not root. Their hearts are far from Him, confessing but not truly believing in the heart. That is what my post is about.

This passage is simply giving us encouragement. When individual conception has taken place in the believer, that seed cannot and will not be removed.

Although I agree that the seed cannot be removed...

The passage of Colossians 2:6-10 is testifying to how one has received Christ and are encouraged to take root. So like any seed that is received, taking root in discipleship is required to "help" prevent a falling away from the faith that was received when a believer had received Jesus Christ,

Using allegories to prove facts is false, and the fact is, is that Jesus died for past present and future sins.

You would not apply that to mean that a believer can live in sin; and certainly it cannot apply in preventing a church from excommunicating an unrepentant brethren from the assembly until he does repent to be allowed back in.

If you mean that the believer will always has the Holy Spirit from which the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ has obtained the promise by, then yes, but we will be judged by what we had built on that foundation ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) and any work of iniquity that remains on that foundation by the time the Bridegroom has come, will come with the consequence of being excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven ( 1 Corinthians 5:11 & 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 ) to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

It sounds to me that you believe in non-osas, the same deceitful philosophy spoken of in Col 2, no? It's a dangerous place to be in. God bless.

Actually, I do believe in OSAS and the consequence is not loss of eternal life for not abiding in Him, but becoming a castaway from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven to be cast into the great tribulation to be resurrected later on by the King of kings when He has returned on earth. So there is more than the consequence of losing the rewards of crowns, but becoming a castaway ( 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) and thus damned forever to be a vessel unto dishonor in His House. That is why God is wiping the tears from the eyes of the saints coming out of the great tribulation as a miracle will be needed to get past their weeping & gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance in being that vessel unto honor in His House.

That is why the call is even given out to former believers to repent or else. 2 Timothy 2:18-21

 

[Heb 13:8]

So like any seed that is received, taking root in discipleship is required to "help" prevent a falling away from the faith that was received when a believer had received Jesus Christ,

No, nothing is required to keep the root in us. Jesus + 0 = salvation

Believers "falling away" from the faith is not biblical. Scripture is referring to nonbelievers falling from the faith (noun), because they never had faith in the death, burial and resurrection to begin with. God bless.

 

[Enoch111]

No, nothing is required to keep the root in us. Jesus + 0 = salvation

Indeed "Jesus" (Heb Yeshua) means salvation.

YESHUA = YAH (God) + SHUA (salvation) = GOD IS [OUR] SALVATION

Thus: "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27)

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

No, nothing is required to keep the root in us. Jesus + 0 = salvation

Actually, so far, your reference to the seed is the only thing that cannot be taken from us which I agree, but scripture puts it on us to grow roots by studying in His words.

Believers "falling away" from the faith is not biblical. Scripture is referring to nonbelievers falling from the faith (noun), because they never had faith in the death, burial and resurrection to begin with. God bless.

You can't fall from the faith (noun ) unless you had the faith.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 has been prophesied and is happening today by saved believers seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign.

2 Timothy 2:18 cites an example how some rrr from the truth and had their faith overthrown and yet they still have His seal for why even former believers are called to depart from iniquity if they wish to be received by the Bridegroom as a vessel unto honor in His House.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Actually, so far, your reference to the seed is the only thing that cannot be taken from us which I agree, but scripture puts it on us to grow roots by studying in His words.

And that's what believers do since the seed never leaves them, 1 Jhn 3:9

You can't fall from the faith (noun ) unless you had the faith.

1 Timothy 4:1-2 has been prophesied and is happening today by saved believers seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign.

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas) in the Synoptic Gospels of aphistemi...

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

And that's what believers do since the seed never leaves them, 1 Jhn 3:9



Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas) in the Synoptic Gospels of aphistemi...

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Those variations of the sower and the seed can be seen as the soil that had received the seed, Christ, and what happens afterwards with Christ. Even Luke 8:13 goes against what you are trying to say as if receiving the seed is not necessarily believing in Him, and yet they believed for a while.

So they had faith, but they did not study in His words to take root to prevent the world of sin or lies to lead them to err and overthrow their faith.

The ones where the crows took the seed from being planted are the ones happening to unbelievers.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

Yet 2 Timothy 2:13 testify to those that are former believers that He is faithful by the very act by still abiding in them. That is why in 2 Timothy 2:18 when giving an example of how some will err from the truth to have their faith overthrown just as I can cite the evolution theory as for why some err from the truth and had their faith overthrown... in why former believers still have His seal for why they are still called to depart from iniquity 2 Timothy 2:9-21

 

[Heb 13:8]

Those variations of the sower and the seed can be seen as the soil that had received the seed, Christ, and what happens afterwards with Christ. Even Luke 8:13 goes against what you are trying to say as if receiving the seed is not necessarily believing in Him, and yet they believed for a while.

So they had faith, but they did not study in His words to take root to prevent the world of sin or lies to lead them to err and overthrow their faith.

The ones where the crows took the seed from being planted are the ones happening to unbelievers.

JIF, you missed it. Those people in Luke 8:13 never came to a "saving faith" because they never had that root to begin with, which is Jesus Christ himself. Notice in the Synoptic Gospels in Matt and Mark that it uses "trouble and persecution ", and Rom 8:35, 38-39 clearly states that "trouble and persecution" can never separate a believer from God.

Yet 2 Timothy 2:13 testify to those that are former believers that He is faithful by the very act by still abiding in them. That is why in 2 Timothy 2:18 when giving an example of how some will err from the truth to have their faith overthrown just as I can cite the evolution theory as for why some err from the truth and had their faith overthrown... in why former believers still have His seal for why they are still called to depart from iniquity 2 Timothy 2:9-21

The word "depart" in Matt 7:23 is referring to wolves that were trying to enter the kingdom through works. As we can see here in Matt 7:15, the sheep are believers and the wolves were nonbelievers... https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

JIF, missing the mark is not spiritual abortion of the seed. It's similiar to how God doesn't throw believers into hell because of lack of maturity in Heb 5:14, Heb 6:1-6.

2 Tim 2:18 who have departed (astocheó) from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

astocheó: to miss the mark
Original Word: ἀστοχέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: astocheó
Phonetic Spelling: (as-tokh-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I miss the mark, miss my aim, make a false aim
Definition: I miss the mark, miss my aim, make a false aim, fail.
HELPS Word-studies

795 astoxéō (from 1 /A "not" and stoxos, "a target") – properly, off-target (without aim); figuratively, out of line; out of step (cadence) with God.

Hymenaeus and Alexander did not lose their salvation; either they were pretenders exposed for what they were or they were straying believers disciplined by a loving God (see Hebrews 12:6)... https://www.gotquestions.org/Hymenaeus-and-Alexander.html

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

JIF, you missed it. Those people in Luke 8:13 never came to a "saving faith" because they never had that root to begin with, which is Jesus Christ himself. Notice in the Synoptic Gospels in Matt and Mark that it uses "trouble and persecution ", and Rom 8:35, 38-39 clearly states that "trouble and persecution" can never separate a believer from God.



The word "depart" in Matt 7:23 is referring to wolves that were trying to enter the kingdom through works. As we can see here in Matt 7:15, the sheep are believers and the wolves were nonbelievers... https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

JIF, missing the mark is not spiritual abortion of the seed. It's similiar to how God doesn't throw believers into hell because of lack of maturity in Heb 5:14, Heb 6:1-6.

2 Tim 2:18 who have departed (astocheó) from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

astocheó: to miss the mark
Original Word: ἀστοχέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: astocheó
Phonetic Spelling: (as-tokh-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I miss the mark, miss my aim, make a false aim
Definition: I miss the mark, miss my aim, make a false aim, fail.
HELPS Word-studies

795 astoxéō (from 1 /A "not" and stoxos, "a target") – properly, off-target (without aim); figuratively, out of line; out of step (cadence) with God.

Hymenaeus and Alexander did not lose their salvation; either they were pretenders exposed for what they were or they were straying believers disciplined by a loving God (see Hebrews 12:6)... https://www.gotquestions.org/Hymenaeus-and-Alexander.html

Do consider that Matthew 7:13-27 and refers to the iniquity of broadening the way in coming to God the Father by and so the solution in Luke 13:24-30 is to avoid that iniquity is by narrowing the way to the straight gate; keep your eyes on the Son in worship, fellowship, and prayer.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Do consider that Matthew 7:13-27 and refers to the iniquity of broadening the way in coming to God the Father by and so the solution in Luke 13:24-30 is to avoid that iniquity is by narrowing the way to the straight gate; keep your eyes on the Son in worship, fellowship, and prayer.

I will my friend.

 

[BobRyan]

Wow -- 166 pages?
Post 3312?

I don't see me reading 3000 posts to "Catch up" hope no one objects.

 

[Nancy]

Because "behaving" affects sanctification and discipline, it does not remove the seed that was planted into a believer upon salvation.

Individual conception has already taken place, less you believe God is for spiritual abortion? God removing the seed of salvation because of disobedience is not biblical. Being "born of God" is a permanent condition of the heart.

1. We are heirs of His promise according to the seed
2. We are born of imperishable seed not perishable according to the seed
3. God's seed remains in them according to the seed

Gal 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

God bless

Good post Heb.
"1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

It seems simple to me, if one has His Spirit within, then sin does not fit the true believer any longer, they should see sin differently. The gradual change will come out as He is worked in us. And one will definitely notice the change as we allow the Spirit of God to renew our minds, and become a new creature in Christ. "Work out your own salvation" So, it MUST be inside first (heart matter?) to be "worked out"...how much will we trust and believe in what He say's? He is not an "indian giver" and we do not need salvation in installments...ONCE for ALL. We can't be 60% saved on one day then 20% the next, so on and so forth. It is IMHO an all or nothing proposition.

 

[Heb 13:8]

It seems simple to me, if one has His Spirit within, then sin does not fit the true believer any longer, they should see sin differently. The gradual change will come out as He is worked in us. And one will definitely notice the change as we allow the Spirit of God to renew our minds, and become a new creature in Christ. "Work out your own salvation" So, it MUST be inside first (heart matter?) to be "worked out"...how much will we trust and believe in what He say's? He is not an "indian giver" and we do not need salvation in installments...ONCE for ALL. We can't be 60% saved on one day then 20% the next, so on and so forth. It is IMHO an all or nothing proposition.

Especially those sins that God convicted you of years ago and never went back on. That's when you really see God at work.

 

[Nancy]

Especially those sins that God convicted you of years ago and never went back on. That's when you really see God at work.

Amen!

 

[Helen]

Wow -- 166 pages?
Post 3312?

I don't see me reading 3000 posts to "Catch up" hope no one objects.

Haha!! No...don't even try...much is repetition anyway.

It is a bit of a circular discussion.
Bless you...H

 

[Taken]

Once Saved...yes I believe and Trust Gods Saving Grace Given a man ONCE is Sufficient FOREVER.

It really has No effect on me, if others, particularly Catholics who object to my Belief and Trust that ONCE the Lord has gifted a man with His Saving Grace...it IS sufficient FOREVER.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BobRyan]

Once Saved...yes I believe and Trust Gods Saving Grace Given a man ONCE is Sufficient FOREVER.

It really has No effect on me, if others, particularly Catholics who object to my Belief and Trust that ONCE the Lord has gifted a man with His Saving Grace...it IS sufficient FOREVER.

God Bless,
Taken

What about those who believe in "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and practice - and so reject OSAS because it does not survive the test of scripture - in places such as this?
Matthew 18 - forgiveness revoked.
Ezek 18 - forgiveness revoked.
Romans 11 "you stand only by your faith... you should fear for if He did not spare them then He may not spare you either...'

 

[BobRyan]

Apparently you did not even read with understanding my post #3297.

Post 3297?? seriously?

Has anyone had time to read the first 3200 posts yet?