Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

Good grief, get a Dictonary. When you open your mouth and speak you are testifying.
Perhaps you require your hand on the Bible and swear an oath to tell the truth, before you actually tell the truth.



That it was an unfounded false statement out of your mouth. Own it!



Scripture is True.
You on the other hand, make unfounded false statement.



Not for one who needs a Q-tip and mouthwash.



Correct - I trust Scripture teaches to give DILIGENCE before making ones calling and election SURE.

Unlike some people who teach it's a mind reasoning decision to call on the Lord.

Rom 8:7
...the carnal mind is ENIMITY AGAINST God.



Being content without understanding is not an asset.



Apparently you are sorely unaware, man has reasoning and logic capabilities in the thoughts of his carnal mind and true thoughts in his heart.

You have already revealed your BELIEF and your FAITH comes from your reasoning.

Too bad, you didn't spend some time Learning;

God searches the thoughts of a mans Heart, for Confession of Belief.

God Bless,
Taken

Yes.
You certainly prove with the above that you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you
Your kindness and thoughtfulness shine through.

I do find that those who believe in osas act as you do....
Not very christianly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This does not apply.

 

[mjrhealth]

This does not apply.

Oh it does, what was it Jesus said,

Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

so many following after signs to there own demise.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh it does, what was it Jesus said,

Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

so many following after signs to there own demise.

@BreadOfLife was saying that Judas was casting out demons in the name of GOD, and that only a born again person can do this.

Jesus replied with Mathew 7:23, which you posted as proof that BoL was wrong. But he's right because Jesus did not mean that they WERE NOT casting out devil's in the name of God. They indeed might have been, and were, since Jesus repeats this.

Jesus then said Mathew 7:23 because although they were casting out demons in the name of God, they were living lawless lives and not following the laws of God. They might have cast out devils, as Judas did, but at some point they became non-followers of Gods laws, exactly as what happened to Judas.

When Jesus sent him out with the 12 to preach and remove demons, Jesus was NOT dividing the house of God... Judas was with the Apostles and saved at that point.

Toward the end of the ministry of Jesus, he went astray, for whatever reason, and became lawless.
Thus Mathew 7:23

This is why I thought this passage did not support your view that Judas was never saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh it does, what was it Jesus said,

Mat 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

so many following after signs to there own demise.

P.S. I agree that we should not be following signs.
The only sign we should need, is the sign of Jonah. The resurrection.

 

[GodsGrace]

#1 Yes
#2 Saved ..

Taken is saying that the Apostles were not saved until after the resurrection and their complete understanding of Christ. Maybe Peter when he declared Jesus to be the Son of God (but I'm not sure what Taken believes because his beliefs are too odd).

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed, we are all stewards given things to care for and use. Our results are what He looks at which is according to what is in our hearts at the end of the road.

Stewards do not inherit. Somewhere before inheriting a person must be elevated from steward to heir. If a person is not regularly overcoming the things that need to be overcome, he will never become an heir and he will never inherit.

We are heirs at the moment be believe. There is no guarantee that we will remain heirs. We will receive our inheritance at the end of our life.
Ephesians 1:18
18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

The HOPE of His glory, the inheritance of His saints...

 

[GodsGrace]

If we are believers or sheep and we are now hearing his voice, why did he need to be more specific?

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

I don't know.
To warn us about the unpleasant place?
Of course, to you this will NOT be important...
But isn't it still better to be with God than to just disappear??

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus didn't lose Judas. Judas was always the son of perdition. He didn't become the son of perdition. He was the son of perdition. When Jesus is talking about those whom the Father has given Him, He is talking about the 11. In (17:11) Jesus gives them to the Father to keep in His own name. Judas could not be one of them. Judas is not included as Jesus says 'none of them is lost, but the son of perdition'. He is lost in that he is lost of the twelve, not lost as being saved and then lost.

Concerning your logic as I understood it, Jesus would not send one who was not saved out to preach or cast out demons or heal, thus Jesus did not know Judas was the son of perdition at that time. But you believe the Father knew. Wouldn't your logic ask the same question of the Father that it asks of Jesus? How could the Father allow the son of perdition to go out and preach and cast out demons, etc.?

Stranger

I understand your point Stranger.
I just don't agree with it and this subject is not that important to me to argue endlessly.

I believe in free will. I also believe that on rare occasions God picks persons to fulfill His plan. Judas was one of these persons. We cannot be certain that Jesus, while on earth in the form of man, was aware of this. His knowledge WAS restricted.

It's difficult to believe Jesus would have picked a devil to be with him and the Apostles for 3 years. I posted a great article of all that I believe. I can't do more than that. I'm not trying to convince you but explaining why I believe this to be true.

By the end of the ministry of Jesus, Judas lost faith and became lost and despaired. He lost all hope. He had never despaired before this, so he was doing his best. Jesus trusted him with the group's money. Jesus did show trust beyond sending him out with the other 11.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I understand your point Stranger.
I just don't agree with it and this subject is not that important to me to argue endlessly.

I believe in free will. I also believe that on rare occasions God picks persons to fulfill His plan. Judas was one of these persons. We cannot be certain that Jesus, while on earth in the form of man, was aware of this. His knowledge WAS restricted.

It's difficult to believe Jesus would have picked a devil to be with him and the Apostles for 3 years. I posted a great article of all that I believe. I can't do more than that. I'm not trying to convince you but explaining why I believe this to be true.

By the end of the ministry of Jesus, Judas lost faith and became lost and despaired. He lost all hope. He had never despaired before this, so he was doing his best. Jesus trusted him with the group's money. Jesus did show trust beyond sending him out with the other 11.

I haven't been following the discussion, just read your response concerning Judas.

John 17:12 KJV
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

"That the scripture might be fulfilled"
is key. So I ask, did Judas fulfill the will of God?

 

[GodsGrace]

I haven't been following the discussion, just read your response concerning Judas.

John 17:12 KJV
[12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

"That the scripture might be fulfilled"
is key. So I ask, did Judas fulfill the will of God?

Interesting question.
Did Pharaoh fulfull scripture?
Did God harden his heart or was it already hardened?

Judas became the son of perdition. He listened to satan instead of God.
In this sense he did NOT do the will of God.
Jesus even told him to go quickly and do what he had planned.
John 13:27
So in THIS sense, yes, he did do the will of God.

But does doing the will of God bring one to commit suicide?
What do YOU think?
(you could have started off with an easy question!)

Lata...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Interesting question.
Did Pharaoh fulfull scripture?
Did God harden his heart or was it already hardened?

Judas became the son of perdition. He listened to satan instead of God.
In this sense he did NOT do the will of God.
Jesus even told him to go quickly and do what he had planned.
John 13:27
So in THIS sense, yes, he did do the will of God.

But does doing the will of God bring one to commit suicide?
What do YOU think?
(you could have started off with an easy question!)

Lata...

Absolutely Judas fulfilled God's will.
Notice : Matthew 12:39-40
[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: [40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonah 1:17
[17] Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

The Lord "prepared." Judas was "prepared" to fulfill God's plan of redemption.

John 2:19
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


Matthew 26:18
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

It was all "prepared". I get and understand why you would have love for Judas. He did the will of God. The money Judas sold Jesus for, purchased a field. In my opinion, we should be grateful. We should love. My only concern is that: if God(or Jesus) knew about it then why choose Judas...He told us why. You seem offended by it so you take the control out of God's hand. Did God do something offensive that needs to be forgiven? No. Was God in control. Yes. Was Judas saved and then lost...absolutely not. What that means for Judas; I don't know. But I know God is good and just.

Titus 1:15-16
[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him , being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[Taken]

Bread of Life: Not to steal any thunder in your conversation with Taken...

I just would like to add my few cents on your important subject(s) ...faith, works, salvation baptism....

Faith without works is definitely a scriptural axiom as in James that was quoted, and even Paul . Is it understood? If one thinks performing all the humblest works for mankind and God with the belief one is then faithful, righteous or even regenerated, without the presence and power of God is folly.

James as in other verses on the same subject speaks of possessing and working with the divine spirit and power within you, this is the sign of spiritual faith not the spirit of man’s selfish faith that amounts to nothing. Believers with strong faith will do God’s will as Abraham did with his son (James 2:23-24). His works were of works brought about by the divine spirit and power of God. These works though don’t cause righteousness. These works of Abraham are the product or evidence of his eternal salvation and is characteristic of all believers having the living God within our hearts. Works without salvation are worthless.

Failure to understand salvation causes the confusion of faith with works that God sanctions versus what man sanctions. Do you know that God sanctions your works, and then how do you really know?

Now for those that believe you go in and of salvation many times during your life, like a yo-yo, how can you know your faith is ‘genuine’ at one time and not at another time, and when are your works acceptable to our Lord and Savior and his Father? It sounds like a lot of self-work and confusion going on…I can see why a priest works overtime...

APAK

The confusion arises when the Gentiles were grafted in.

Prior, Obedience to the Law was all about the Hebrews/Jews. And they being the teachers thereof.

Jesus comes for the LOST Jews, and chooses Jews for His mission. And to fulfill Jewish Laws.

For "awhile" Jews, & Gentiles are being introduced to the Jewish Messiah, and accepting Him.

Jews forwarding in time - know of Jesus, but pretty much return in the stance of being under the Law.

Gentiles expand learning about this Messiah, God Almighty, accepting them, and "they" begin spreading the teaching around the world.

Inanutshell ~ God brought them together ~ men keep them separated.

Jews who continue under the law, continue according to the law to effect their Salvation.
Under Jewsish Law, WORKS, are a PRIMARY WAY, instituted FOR JEWS to "receive" Salvation, AFTER "enduring" their LIFE -
Keeping SUBJECTION and Obedience to the Law, AND DOING Works to Glorify God.

Gentiles "not under the Law", Receive their Salvation "INSTANTLY", "WHEN" they SUBJECT themselves TO the Jewish Messiah,
Christ the Lord Jesus.

(And to note - Not ALL Jews keep themselves Subject to Jewish Laws, and Not ALL Gentiles Subject themselves to Christ the Lord Jesus)

But, but, but, the Jews taught many very Good things, of HOW TO (do works) to Glorify God.......yes, yes, yes they did.

When a Jew (subject to the law) does those works, they glorify God.
When a Jew (subject to the law), does NOT do those works, it is a SIN unto him.

When a Gentile (subject to Christ) does those works, they glorify God, AND are rewarded by God, via blessings on earth and in Heaven.

When a Gentile (subject to Christ) does NOT do those works, the DO NOT glorify God, AND are not rewarded by God, via blessing on earth and in Heaven. It is NOT a SIN unto them. They are called the least in the Kingdom of God.

ANY man CHOOSING, and ELECTING to (via HIS HEARTS thoughts) Subject himself UNTO Christ the Lord Jesus,
RECEIVES his forever FORGIVENESS and PERMANENT Salvation.

Every Work he does ACCORDING TO what is Scripturally Accepted as A GOOD WORK, the man receives blessings and rewards FROM GOD. Every Work he does NOT DO, he foregoes blessings and rewards FROM GOD.
It is not a SIN unto Him. It is his own LOSS of rewards and blessings.

Many Christians, are taught, and follow;
To Subject themselves TO Christ Jesus;
Yet PRETEND "they" are SUBJECT TO, the Law, AND the "CURSES" (ie SIN), of the LAW, regarding Works; When they are NOT.

Those SUBJECTED to Christ Jesus, have BEEN forgiven ALL of their SINS, washed of ALL of their unrighteousness, ARE Saved, ARE Quickened, are Forever WITH the Lord.
Their Body of SIN IS DEAD, yet they Live IN the Holy and Pure Christ WHO KEEPS them forever, WITH His Power.

Christians readily ACCEPT their Salvation and Quickening ~ while also teaching THEY ARE UNDER the CURSE (sin) of the Law, (regarding Works).

Scripture teaches, Every man who has SUBJECTED himself TO Christ the Lord Jesus, has BEEN REDEEMED FROM the CURSE (sin) of the LAW, regarding Everything in the Law, that was Curse (Sin) according TO THE LAW.

Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE of the law,
Being MADE A CURSE "for us".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

First of all - James was a CHRISTIAN and he was writing as a CHRISTIAN - to fellow CHRISTIANS.
YOU recoil at what he wrote because you are a Scriptural cherry-picker and you don't understand the Word of God in its proper context.

This is precisely why Martin Luther wanted to delete the Epistle of James from his German translation - along with other Books like Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. Too Catholic . . .

James was not under the Law - he was in CHRIST. What he wrote harmonizes with the rest of the Gospel message - for those who understand how to read God's Word.

James was a Jew, and his brethren were Jews.

The Concept of a Jewish Messiah, was steeped in Jewish History.
The Concept of the Jewish Messiah, being on Earth in the likeness as a common man, was not what Jews were Expecting, thus this man Jesus, as the Jewish Messiah, was new to the Jews, AND the Gentiles, who were not steeped in Jewish history, their God, their laws, their traditions.

You need to learn how to divide the Word of Truth, of what applies to whom and why.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hi APAK -

The faith that James describes is not a mere intellectual assent. If it lacks works - it lacks substance.
God prepared works for US to do (Eph. 2:10). He doesn't do them for us. WE must do His will or we won't be saved. Only the one who DOES the will of the Father will be saved (Matt. 7:21).

Gods WILL is that men Become Saved.
Salvation is EFFECTED by one SUBJECTING themselves to Christ the Lord Jesus.

James drives the point home that without works - all you have is belief - like the demons (James 2:19).
Belief and works are married to produce faith. You can't have true faith without either one - and without faith, you can't be saved.

Works CAN ONLY be accomplished TWO WAYS.

One By Jews, Subject to the Law, who Believes in the Word of God, and Obeys the Laws that Glorifies God, and does not DO Works that Do not Glorify God.

THAT ^^^^, is precisely HOW OT men became, Saved, beloved, friends, blessed, faithful servants, etc. OF God.

Gentiles AND Some Jews (in Jesus' day and today), become Saved, beloved, friends, faithful servants, etc. OF God, "BY" Subjecting themselves TO Christ Jesus; WHO makes a COMPLETE internal CHANGE within the man, and Dwells with the man, TO KEEP HIM CHANGED!

Works by themselves will get you nowhere.

Good works by a Jew, who believes in the Word of God, absolutely WILL Save him.

Any works by a Gentile, who believes in their heart Christ Jesus is the Word of God, will NOT Save them, but WILL gain them rewards.

It is solely their Belief in their heart in Christ Jesus, that Saves them

The same is true for belief all by itself.

Belief in the Word of God AND good Works, saves a Jew, according to their Law.

Belief in any mans Heart, Christ Jesus is the Word of God, and confession thereof, Shall Save Him.

Works are a Service unto God.

The Reasonsable Works/Service of a man subjecting himself TO the Word of God, ie Christ the Lord Jesus....IS;

Rom 12:1
....that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
Which IS your reasonable service.

It is Precisely one subjecting themselves; calling on the Lords name, believing in their heart, Christ Jesus, and confessing the same, is....HOW they are, by the Lords Power, made "holy", to accomplish their "reasonable service".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Gods WILL is that men Become Saved.
Salvation is EFFECTED by one SUBJECTING themselves to Christ the Lord Jesus.



Works CAN ONLY be accomplished TWO WAYS.

One By Jews, Subject to the Law, who Believes in the Word of God, and Obeys the Laws that Glorifies God, and does not DO Works that Do not Glorify God.

THAT ^^^^, is precisely HOW OT men became, Saved, beloved, friends, blessed, faithful servants, etc. OF God.

Gentiles AND Some Jews (in Jesus' day and today), become Saved, beloved, friends, faithful servants, etc. OF God, "BY" Subjecting themselves TO Christ Jesus; WHO makes a COMPLETE internal CHANGE within the man, and Dwells with the man, TO KEEP HIM CHANGED!



Good works by a Jew, who believes in the Word of God, absolutely WILL Save him.

Any works by a Gentile, who believes in their heart Christ Jesus is the Word of God, will NOT Save them, but WILL gain them rewards.

It is solely their Belief in their heart in Christ Jesus, that Saves them



Belief in the Word of God AND good Works, saves a Jew, according to their Law.

Belief in any mans Heart, Christ Jesus is the Word of God, and confession thereof, Shall Save Him.

Works are a Service unto God.

The Reasonsable Works/Service of a man subjecting himself TO the Word of God, ie Christ the Lord Jesus....IS;

Rom 12:1
....that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
Which IS your reasonable service.

It is Precisely one subjecting themselves; calling on the Lords name, believing in their heart, Christ Jesus, and confessing the same, is....HOW they are, by the Lords Power, made "holy", to accomplish their "reasonable service".

God Bless,
Taken

Taken: I will have to mediate on the last two posts you sent me. That is new to me that under grace, James was allowed and others I guess to stay under law and perform works as evidence of salvation under the law...it that the gist of what you are saying...?

thanks

APAK

 

[Taken]

Yes.
You certainly prove with the above that you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you
Your kindness and thoughtfulness shine through.

I do find that those who believe in osas act as you do....
Not very christianly.

You want to divert from the OP and talk about tit of tat, being Christian like?

I think being Christian like is to speak the Truth.

I believe - which is to say MY TRUTH; is that when a man Subjects himself, with belief in his own individual heart in Christ Jesus, that the Lord IS Faithful and FORGIVES and SAVES and QUICKENS and DWELLS with that man FOREVER.

I believe ^^, precisely because Scripture teaches it and I TRUST THE Lord is True and Faithful.

You do not have to AGREE, and your disagreement HAS ZERO affect or effect on me.

You can bad mouth, in your disagreement, and that is on you.

As far as Personally, being Christian like.

You can POINT OUT ANYTHING, that I have said ABOUT YOU, that I made up and claimed FOR YOU. And that would be personally, unChristian like toward you.

I POINTED OUT SOMETHING, that You said ABOUT ME, that YOU MAKE UP, and APPLIED it toward me, which was YOUR OWN FALSE claims, which was personally your own unChristian like behavior toward me.

And then you want to lecture me about Christian like behavior?

You want to be treated with respect, be respectable.

You want to OBJECT to the Lords ONE TIME gift of SAVING....TO A MAN WHO HAS "HEART" ( not mind ), HEARTfully given His own subjection to Christ Jesus...

Then PROVE it. Prove the Lord is not trustworthy, and He does not mean For ever, when He says For ever.

Testify of your OWN experiences of having YOUR SOUL SAVED repeatedly BY THE Lord.

We are Waiting to hear YOUR Scriptural evidence, how a man heartfully subjecting himself to the Lord, can not Trust the Lord is Faithful to keep him for ever.

We are Waiting to hear YOUR personal testimony of HOW you heartfully subjected yourself to the Lord, and it Failed and required repeating.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Taken: I will have to mediate on the last two posts you sent me. That is new to me that under grace, James was allowed and others I guess to stay under law and perform works as evidence of salvation under the law...it that the gist of what you are saying...?

thanks

APAK

Okay. Under the Law, is subject TO the Law.
Meaning, if one does not DO as the Law provides, the Curses (sins) of the Law apply.

For one IN Christ, the words in the Law, teach HOW TO serve the Lord in a good manner, that glorifies His Name. With such man NOT being "subject to or under the law'.

Meaning - The "curses" (sins) were part of the Law, and such curse laws have no effect, ie do not apply, to a man IN Christ.

And every Law, that is accomplished, that glorifies Gods Name, still stand.
A man IN Christ can do those things, revealed IN THE LAW...and receive rewards and blessing.

And if such a man IN Christ, does not do those things....he loses the opportunity to have received rewards and blessing....but it is not a SIN, unto him (as it would be, for a Jew, under and subject to the Law).

IOW - we are not subject TO THE LAW.
We subject ourselves to CHRIST.

And the teachings of Good Behavior IN THE LAWS, are acceptable and glorifying to God, for men IN CHRIST to do.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Triumph1300]

and I wonder if I have fallen down the rabbit hole into a crazy world.

Lol, you'r not alone.

 

[Triumph1300]

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A few famous names come to mind.
But I will not mention them.