Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I challenge you to show us that 1 Corinthians 15:2 does not say 'are saved', as in 'presently saved'.
OSAS Question
- Thread starter kcnalp
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's very obvious that the Catholic church is the one with thick black scales over their eyes.
You just have to understand something about how leadership works in this dark world. Wherever positions of authority and influence and wealth exist, the unspiritual flock to those positions and corrupt those organizations because that's what unsaved people of the world love and chase after. That's what happened to the church. The Catholic church is swollen with greedy, narcissistic, lost people of the world craving positions of wealth and influence. And since they are unsaved they do not have the illumination of the Spirit to know correct doctrine from incorrect doctrine.
This happens in all denominations, your denomination and Protestant denominations. The true church—the true born again believers in Christ—do not exist in the form of a man-made denomination. We exist dispersed among the lost of the world, unified by the Spirit. You are horribly deceived if you think the Catholic denomination is the body of Christ in this world. The body of Christ in the world does not exist in a unified denomination at this time in human history. It hasn't for probably 1900 years. Paul said this was going to happen.....
"I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them." Ephesians 20:29-30
It didn't take long. By the 3rd century or so, we had this huge monster called the Catholic church ruining Christianity with their spiritless, corrupt teachings and legalistic ceremonies and rituals. And ever since, the real members of Christ's body have been dispersed among the nations of the world mostly as individual parts, yet unified by the Spirit that inhabits each one of them.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
so was Augustine i suppose and he was an apostle
D)
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
We do need them. I'm saying the Catholic church hasn't cornered the market on them. Not even close. Quite the opposite has happened in the Catholic church. That's where you go if you want to not find a genuine, ordained of God, spiritual leader.
Last edited:
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ultimately, to be saved on the day of Christ's return, yes. To be justified? No. We know that from the simple fact that he received the Spirit without lifting a finger.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
explain Jn 16:13
not possible for the holy church to teach error
fundamentalists yes
The true church no!
does John 3:5 mean baptismal regeneration?
there is only one church Jn 10:16
Only the true church has a priesthood and propitiatory sacrifice
Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Suffering required for glorification with Christ!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Suffering required for glorification with Christ!
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I do not disagree with that. What I disagree with is what/who you think that one church and priesthood is. Believers are the church. Not the Catholic organization. Not a Protestant organization.
There is no such thing as a "holy church". A "church" is a body of believers. The "church" has no authority or power as an entity.
Similar threads
