OSAS Question

[Eternally Grateful]

Name calling is for those who are desperate and losing!

Says the one who does nothing but attack a group of people he does not understamd

 

[kcnalp]

If you try to get saved by works, your night a christian, your trying to earn salvation by your deeds

the topic is osas. Not what a christian does after he is saved,

Do you always stay on topic or are you just being a hypocrite?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some, absolutely! The OP quote proves OSAS is a license to sin.

Nope

the op proves the op has no understanding of OSAS is is on a tirade of hate against something he does not know

 

[kcnalp]

Says the one who does nothing but attack a group of people he does not understamd

You're attacking me, as if you didn't notice.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you always stay on topic or are you just being a hypocrite?

Your the one not on topic everytime you bring up works and osas.

your mixing sanctification and justification trying to justify your works based self righteous gospel

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're attacking me, as if you didn't notice.

Nope,
I am staying the truth and attacking your lies against my faith

 

[mailmandan]

Some, absolutely! The OP quote proves OSAS is a license to sin.

I don't know any genuine believers who teach that OSAS is a license to sin. Do you believe that everyone in the NOSAS camp is going to heaven?

 

[kcnalp]

Nope

the op proves the op has no understanding of OSAS is is on a tirade of hate against something he does not know

You're the one spewing hate. I'm challenging the OSAS myth!

 

[kcnalp]

Nope,
I am staying the truth and attacking your lies against my faith

What lies? Or did YOU just lie?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're the one spewing hate. I'm challenging the OSAS myth!

Your challenge has been met, disproven, and put to rest.

you have not proven anything but your lack of understanding of true OSAS

one thing I have leaned is when someone goes on the warpath against something, they do it because it offends them, because to acknowledge it or truly study it just hurts their own faith, so they have to attack it like it’s the worse enemy,

case in point your many anti osas threads

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What lies? Or did YOU just lie?

Here you go with your strawman again

you do realise this hurts your own case do you not? When you start attacking people. It makes it appear you are desperate, is that what you are? Does my faith in God and him alone offend you that much?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't know any genuine believers who teach that OSAS is a license to sin. Do you believe that everyone in the NOSAS camp is going to heaven?

He is on the run, he has resorted to nonsensical attacks, I think we have shown his true self

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't know any genuine believers who teach that OSAS is a license to sin.

I guard myself against anyone who claims to be a genuine believer and says we can live anyway we want and we remain saved because it's hard for me to imagine a truly genuine Christian believing such nonsense.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

true OSAS

You do know there is this new Osas running around these days, right? Calvin himself (the author of the original Osas teaching) would firmly resist it. And he should!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The school of thought that teaches we can lose our salvation never consider the challenge to prove it.

Not taking scripture out of context "proof". Proving with scripture that states every change that occurred in the repentant sinner is reversed in them by God. That they then return to their former sinner state.

Dear anti- eternal salvation proponents, proceed to meet the challenge.
Exact scripture only please.

The question is, can a true believer stop believing? Settle that and you've settled the Osas debate. What matters is that you do what the Bible tells us to do—keep believing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If your going to attack a doctrine to try to expose it, at lease show you have an understanding of what the doctrine teaches. Otherwise you just expose yourself

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. (vs. 19-21) Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Israelites lost the goodness and blessings of God, but this doesn't speak of losing salvation.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious.

How does the corporate body of gentiles do this? ↓↓

...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. Romans 11:20

...kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22
​

Obviously, Paul has to be talking to individual believers able to continue in his kindness, and able to continue to stand by faith, being afraid, not arrogant.

You won't learn anymore about if Osas is true or not from Romans 11 then you will from 1 John 2 because of the apparent contradiction in each. But what you will learn in each passage is that true believers are told to keep believing. That is what we are to emphasize and to teach and exhort each other in.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No we're not. "Stick to the topic dude".

Practice what you preach.

Okay, fair enough. Let's return to the topic.

In my view OSAS fails on the premise "once saved", rather than the conclusion "always saved." The argument against OSAS follows two distinct tracts: 1) OSAS can't be true otherwise Jesus and the apostles wouldn't warn people against falling away. 2) OSAS can't be true because the confirmation of true and genuine faith relies on factors other than verbal affirmation.

Your initial post touches on the second line of argument. And without disagreeing with your view, I would like to point out that arguments against OSAS are not actually arguments against OSAS. But rather, the dispute centers on a different premise: "once believed always saved", which is the topic of your initial post in this thread. I'd say that both argument tracts make this faulty assumption.

Ironically, both sides of the debate take it as given that belief is immediately rewarded with salvation, and the question is whether or not that initial award (promise) of salvation can be rescinded. In my view, the Bible does not actually teach us that belief is immediately rewarded with salvation. The notion that immediate salvation upon belief should not be taken as granted. Such a notion must be proven from scripture and I don't think the premise will bear under the facts.

Some have pointed out, even in this thread, that those who fall away were never saved in the first place. One could argue that salvation always remains a promise and isn't actualized until glorification, but I think the Bible finds a middle ground where glorification becomes the terminus of a life lived in sanctification, and by sanctification I don't mean "doing holy and good things", I mean, "having the right attitude and perspective." Having the proper inwardness is also a gift of salvation, which will find it's goal in glorification.

Instead of "justification by faith alone", our slogan should be "salvation by sanctification." We are not "saved" past tense. We are "being saved" present tense continuous action, and the essence of salvation is what Paul calls "enlightenment." (not the modern definition.) Ephesians 1:1-19

 

[CadyandZoe]

How does the corporate body of gentiles do this? ↓↓

...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. Romans 11:20

...kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22
​

Paul's analogy is making a point about Israel taken as a whole, and as it is with all generalities, what is true of the group is not necessarily true of each and every member of the group. He is making the same point about The Gentile nations, taken as a whole.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You do know there is this new Osas running around these days, right? Calvin himself (the author of the original Osas teaching) would firmly resist it. And he should!

I know that Wikipedia classifies "perseverance of the saints" as OSAS, but it isn't.