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OSAS.... what does this really mean ?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    I just made several posts with precise Scriptures, including comments on Ezk18:24; no one can be righteous apart from Jesus, and a righteous man can turn away and perish. Where is the ambiguity?

    You are cordially invited to respond to the previous posts, especially the one immediately before, listing several "don't-fall-from-salvation" verses. I look forward to your thoughts.
     
  2. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    Absolutely not; faith comes from us TO God, not the other way around. Heb11:6 "without faith it is impossible to please God; for he who comes to God must believe God is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

    We must come to God by faith; nowhere does it say "God-gives-saving-faith" -- Rom12:3 is "Semitic/Anthropopmorphic", thinking we are passive recipients of God's capricious, favoritism, partial distribution of faith, violates the passages were faith is required OF us. Like Matt22:37 -- we are commanded to love God, if He gives faith to a few then only those few (and AFTER GETTING His monergistic faith) would obey the command. That makes the command empty, insincere, idiotic.

    All men everywhere are commanded to repent, Acts17:26-31.

    Rom5:17 says "those WHO RECEIVE the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness". Our choice.

    We receive His gift, we abide in Him and keep ourselves in His love, we are charged with beginning faith to ending faith; here we have been discussing all of the "abide" verses.

    Notice how hard it is to convince OSAS people, even with precise and clear verses...
     
  3. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    Fine, then we'll just mark out Heb11:6, Rom1:17, 1Pet1:9, Jude20-21, on and on...

    Wait -- are you saying we can choose to hear or not? "Take care how you listen", "blessed are your ears because they hear"?

    ...that doesn't work if "faith is a gift from God"....
    No, there is no falling-away, if faith is a gift from God. "For who can resist His will?"
    Rm9:19
     
  4. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    Easy to say, now let's hear what you think those verses mean.

    Wonderful! And your thoughts are?

    (...don't forget 1Cor10:6-13, and others we've discussed!)
     
  5. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    Are we passive recipients of God's exclusive favor? How does God "work-faith-in-hearts", and whose hearts?

    What is your understanding (and what verses connect)?
     
  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    If we read Ephesians 2, we see that the work of God is so powerful; He does not stand helplessly by.
     
  7. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    P12, what is your answer to post 300? How do these verses NOT solidly warn against "turning away from Jesus and salvation"?

    How do they not say what they say?
     
  8. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    LOL. That's just silly.
    A person who has laid down his life for Christ is "Freed From Sin" and advocates the same for others to do the same.

    Maybe you do not know what "Freed From" means.
    Or perhaps you do not know WHY or WHO Keeps a person "Freed From sin".
     
  9. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Already covered that.
    Would an elementary analogy and text perhaps help you understand?
     
  10. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Taken said:
    Genuine faith comes from God.

    :rolleyes:

    Eph 2:
    [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith;
    and ........(FYI)
    that not of yourselves:
    IT (grace, saved, faith) IS A Gift OF God


    By grace..........gift OF God
    Are saved........gift OF God
    Through faith...gift OF God

    "NOT of YOURSEVES".
     
  11. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Taken said;
    Yes, specifically Romans 12:13 is sufficient regarding measures of faith.

    LOL...that's silly.
    You advocate "marking out Scripture", that gives Knowledge to a person OF HOW TO obtain Gods Gift of FAITH...? Pffff!

    Without Gods Gift of Faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to PLEASE Him.
    ( Any clue what a person with Gods gift of Faith CAN DO TO PLEASE GOD? )
    Heb 11: 6 speaking of a person "who"...BELIEVES. <--- THAT is the individuals OPTION!

    Heb 11:
    [6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Wait -- are you saying we can choose to hear or not?

    Of course you can CHOOSE to HEAR the Word of God......OR NOT.
    You can CHOOSE to BELIEVE the Word of God...OR NOT.

    A person WHO CHOOSES TO HEAR...
    A person WHO CHOOSES TO BELIEVE...
    God Rewards... with Blessings and Gifts!

    Heb 11:6 ... he (God) is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Comprehend?
     
  12. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    YAWN...
    For crying out loud...Been over this;
    Open your Ears...

    LEARN the difference BETWEEN...the words
    "Temporary and Permanent".
    "With and In".

    LEARN the difference BETWEEN...
    "YOUR power"
    And
    "GODS power".
     
  13. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    Exactly that -- we are indwelt by the Son and the Spirit, or we're not saved. That's the issue -- a truly indwelt person can return to walking in sin, which means no longer indwelt.

    That's why this is important to me. "Encourage one another, lest any one of you be hardened by deceitful sin to falling away from God". With all my heart I pray my words encourage each person here; for you are my treasure, if we endure we will be brothers and sisters in Christ -- forever...
     
  14. Gadgetere

    Gadgetere Member

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    As we discussed, "God-hardening", is a recognized literary device. "God-hardened" (Ex10:1), is really "Pharaoh-hardened-himself" (Ex9:34). Samuel agrees, 1Sam6:6. Samuel did not think God had anything to do with it...

    Well sure it does!
    Come on -- in Jesus' words (Matt12), that would make God's house DIVIDED. His house is not divided, he does not conspire with sin.
    Yes it is -- God turning around and walking away from men who choose evil, is a UNIVERSE apart from God reaching down and sculpting sin into anyone's heart.

    Tell me -- in Rom9, "does not the Potter have the right to make what he wants out of the clay?" -- are there TWO vessels in view (God takes one blank lump of clay and shapes one into "ti-me honor", and shapes the other into "atimia-dishonor-vessels-of-wrath"?

    Or are there THREE vessels in view -- "ti-me-honor" (saved), "atimia-common" (saved), and a THIRD vessel that prepared THEMSELVES for wrath (as Rom2:4 says "store up wrath for themselves by their hard and unrepentant heart")? (Oops, they could not store wrath for themselves, if that heart was hardened by God!)

    Two vessels, or three?

    Please explain how God can harden a heart into unbelief and wickedness, and not have a "divided house"?

    ...and how could He judge men if He's the one who hardened them?

    Outta context; we have to read that with 11:32, "He ...has mercy on ALL MEN". Pas anthropos, no way to make that "a few", or "some-of-all-types".

    Romans9:11-21 is one of the Primaries of Calvinism; it absolutely does not promote Predestined Election (that is, He creates some to receive His mercy and be righteous, but He creates the rest to be hardened and wicked). God is not a false judge.

    Rom9:15 does use "Semitic View", and fits the theme of the whole chapter -- "Also Gentiles". Succinctly, "If God wants to have mercy on Gentiles, who are YOU oh Jewish person to object?"

    We have to read the Scriptures as the writers intended, in context, often in Greek or Hebrew, and along with all the rest of Scriptures; we cannot refuse any, and "Scripture interprets Scripture". We cannot embrace a "proof" from one verse, if that conflicts another.

    Then God's house is divided, and He falsely judges men for hard-hearted sinfulness. Because He actually caused it.
     
  15. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    I think we can agree these questions and their debate have gone on for centuries. And will continue until the end of time.
    And the perspectives of each Christian in answering these questions will be unique. And we as those individual saved indwelt members of the church will never all agree on one answer.
    For me, I accept Jesus knows this. And that's why at the heart of his message the answer is very simple.

    Eternal Salvation. And no one will ever take from his hand those whom the Father has given him.
    Because God knew us before the foundation of this world. We didn't choose him, he chose us.
    We are sealed with his holy spirit.
    And we can never be lost again.
     
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  16. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    Actually the OSAS concept is very new. The theme of the Bible is not sin all ya want and guaranteed heaven. The description of Heaven is not that it will be filled with evildoers and God and Good people will be damned to live for eternity with evil. God has never shown a tolerance for evil, much less rewarding it with Heaven.....there is another place for that. That is one of many reasons that the Apostles kept warning Christians about sinning. The theme of the New Testament is not a complicacy for sin or a God that rewards it. Christians can sin themselves to Hell. The Christians that wrote after the biblical error showed zero tolerance for sin or the belief that evildoers would go to Heaven

    OSAS had it begins in the 60's with the peace, love, smoke pot movement. Social acceptance of social morals and sinful lifestyles. The desire to modify biblical morals so they would not be so condemning of homosexuals, drug use, and sexual immorality, etc. You will see no debates in history on OSAS.
     
  17. BloodBought1953

    BloodBought1953 Active Member

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    Actually the OSAS concept is very new


    Not according to Jesus, the Originator and Chief Proponent Of OSAS...... need proof?
    “ All of those that Believe In me Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”

    A five year old could see it. It just takes “eye’s to see”....

    Thank you, Jesus for your Amazing Grace and thank you for being the King Of OSAS.......2000 years and running....not “ new” by ANY stretch of the imagination.....please “open the eyes” of the Confused and poorly taught people here and elsewhere.....
     
  18. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    That is because the acronym OSAS is new. Whereas, what is today referred to with the OSAS acronyms, is a synopsis of the Gospel truth.

    I think the disparity enters when the falsehood, that eternal security in Christ implies a license to sin, is broached .

    However that can easily be overcome by the truth. That eternal security in Christ imparts no such thing. And as such is then only a factor in our exegesis if we permit ourselves to be distracted by such nonsense.
     
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  19. Grailhunter

    Grailhunter Well-Known Member

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    The truth is that it is a new belief.
    You have to be careful about slogans that do not appear in the Bible....eternal security...Trinity.....original sin....do not appear in the Bible.
    If eternal security were true there would have been no reason for the Apostles to warn Christians about sinning and the eternal punishment of Hell if they did.....
    This belief does not appear in the Bible or Christian history.
    This belief is false and can lead people to Hell.

    Freedom of religion....I don't care if you believe Christ was a flying saucer pilot and He had Scotty beam Him up. Just do not try to pass it off as biblical....cause I will call you on it.
     
  20. Pythagorean12

    Pythagorean12 Active Member

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    You won't call me on anything sir. Nothing is so shameful as a bully seeking to divide the church while invoking Christ.

    I've said my piece. You choose to not believe in the eternal security of Christ, wrongly thinking it is a license to sin. Don't for one minute pretend that to be Biblical.
    Those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Eternal security is the Gospel.

    Denying that is at your peril. Come your time God shall call you on that.

    This concludes my exchange with you on this topic.
     
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