OSAS.... what does this really mean ?

[ChristisGod]

Except, as previously noted, this does not agree with Scripture. We've been down this road over and over. You claim Jesus' omniscience during His eartly life, I point out there was something He didn't know. You claim Jesus' omnipotence during His earthly life, and I point out that there were things He could not do. You claim that what Jesus did, He did out of His Deity. I point out that Jesus said He could do nothing of Himself, but He only said what the Father spoke, only did what the Father did.

Jesus explained to the Pharisees that the Spirit Who empowered the works He did was the Holy Spirit.

God tells us how all this is. He emptied Himself.

You even seem to acknowledge this truth.



This was Jesus' entire life. Jesus emptied Himself and became a man, and He lived His life as a man, doing that God did, saying what God said, doing Nothing of Himself. The perfect sacrifice. Not just in death, in life. Fully obedient, a fully righteous human life. And not because He tapped into His Godly powers, but because He trusted His Father, and was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Much love!

Nothing was emptied in Christ which is not a good translation and we have been over this ad nauseum. The Incarnation is not a subtraction of Deity/Attributes but an addition of humanity. I have refuted your kenosis claims numerous times so I'm not going there again with you. I will just link you to my previous response.

Kenosis False Teaching

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

You know me well enough to know that I absolutely HATE Catholic Doctrine..... wanna see me ” foam at the mouth” with Righteous Anger ? Just “ mention” the damned-by-God Fairy Tale Of Purgatory or how Catholic Doctrine says that if you Believe In “ Justification by Faith” you are “ anethema”..... #*#= )(^()/*!!!!...........It makes my Blood Boil! You know that.There is a big part of me that wants to see all adherents to that “ Faith” go unsaved.Paul said Of some that their Damnation was well- deserved.
HOWEVER! .......there are some verses that I can not get around. Jesus said that “ If you will acknowledge “ ME” before men— I will acknowledge “ YOU” before God”.....That let’s TONS of people “in” that I don’t think should be in at all. But then....I ain’t God.......
Here is another verse that gives me hesitation to declare them damned , in my view..... 1 Thess 4:14...... below.......


13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

In these verses , Paul says if you believe in the Resurrection Of Jesus— Plus Nothing—- not even saying as 1 Cor15:1-4 states that you must also believe that “ Jesus died for your sins” —- you will be Saved.....

I have attended enough Catholic Funerals to know that “ Resurrection” is VERY HEAVILY emphasized in their services ....It is my honest opinion that the vast majority of Catholics “ DO” get at least “ ONE” thing correct ....Jesus walked out of that tomb in a physical body after three days, just as He said he would ! Believing in “ That Alone “ is enough to Save them, if we understand that verse from Thessalonians correctly.....
You probably are aware of the immense influence that the Great Bible Teacher, Zola Levitt has had on my Beliefs.....Zola wrote, “ All Of Those That Believe In the Resurrection Of Jesus Christ will be declared “Fit for Heaven” , and that’s ALL THERE IS TO THAT!”....... case closed.....
Zola has Chapter and Verse ( the above 1 Thess. Quote ) —- if not for “ that”, I would not give two hoots in Hell for his or any other man’s opinion....
What is your “ take” on these things, my old friend and Brother?

Catholic Doctrine is very harmful.. as so much of it is completely unrelated or in opposition to New Testament Truth, and the Grace of God.

The thing is, tho...there are many Catholics who love Jesus, and are saved. But their Salvation came by Paul's Gospel, and not by Catholic Church Doctrine Gospel.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Catholic Doctrine is very harmful.. as so much of it is completely unrelated or in opposition to New Testament Truth, and the Grace of God.

The thing is, tho...there are many Catholics who love Jesus, and are saved. But their Salvation came by Paul's Gospel, and not by Catholic Church Doctrine Gospel.

Agreed.....I knew a guy once ( he died several years ago) who was a Catholic —- at least he attended a Catholic Church..... This Guy was a NUT ! An “ABSOLUTE” Nut” .....and I mean this in the best way possible! Lol.....this guy could not go 5 minutes without talking about Jesus.....always bringing up His Name to find a way to praise Him.....it was not fake....it was not creepy....he wasn’t putting in a “ show” for anybody .....many people were put off by this guy’s behavior—- talk about a “ one-track” mind! Me ? I absolutely LOVED IT....To me it was a joy to behold! I envy him.A lot!
Yes, it is true that MANY people ( my older sister is one of them) get Saved “ DESPITE” Romanism.....it just sickens me to hear stuff like this though—-
I read a sad story about the late Rose Kennedy , Matriarch Of The Kennedy family .....the first thing she “ had” to do EVERY day was to go to her church and partake of Mass, lest she feared she would go to Hell .....What a way to live.Never any Assurance in her life.A life full of doubt, guilt and fear.....
This is what the life of a person who is “ Fallen from Grace” looks like to me.....What a shame.This is why I devote my life to calling out the “ Leaven” in churches, the countless “ Additions” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing! Believing the Doctrines Of the Catholic Faith is a Sure- Fire Way to “ fall from Grace”, not necessarily damned, in my opinion, but they live lives where their Walk Of Faith is Crippled and Ship-Wrecked....
“ Adding to the Gospel” is what gets you in this pitiful Situation .....Anybody that says “ Jesus Saves— BUT!” Is “ in” that situation whether they realize it or not.....God Hates what Legalism does to people....So did Paul......so do I , and Catholics are “ Kings” Of Legalism....I used to be a Legalist myself.....I KNOW how it “ quenches” all the Blessings and Ruins the JOY that God wants to give us....I am not going to stand back and ignore it when I see it ....I know what it's like to be a “ Free Man in Christ”...... when you got something Good, it should be natural to want to share it.....that’s what I want to do .....if anybody here wants to promote Legalism, False and Perverted Gospels and especially the Damnable Fairy- Tale Doctrines Of Catholicism , I will attack the Doctrines ( not the poorly taught “ victims” of these Doctrines) , attack them them like “ a Pit-Bull on a Poodle”.Evidence shows that God approves.....God bless....

 

[Gadgetere]

OSAS, is simply the reality that Once you are born again, you are always born again.

"Reality"? To discuss Scripture, the desire is to expose what they actually wrote and said, so that it is not open to dispute; to "exhort with sound doctrine and refute those who contradict". (Titus 1:9)

Therefore there is no "My-Opinion" or "Your-Opinion" or his or hers, there is just what the Apostles and Jesus said.

So, can you be "unborn again"?
There is no verse in the NT that even suggests this..

You're right, no verse suggests it; it says it plainly.

"If we endure His discipline, then He treats us as sons.
...but if we are WITHOUT His discipline (present tense!)
...of which all have become metochos-partakers/partners (past tense!)
...then WE are NOT SONS but are illegitimate (present tense!)" Heb12:7-8
​

We WERE disciplined sons, but if we now ARE WITHOUT His discipline then we are NO LONGER SONS! How big of a NOT REALLY stamp would it take to change that?

Continue with verse 9 (and 25):

"We submitted to earthly fathers; shall we not much rather continue in submission to the Father of spirits, AND LIVE? ...much less shall WE escape who turn away from God!"​

Any part of that ambiguous? You see, Behold, there are three views of OSAS:
1. Antinomianism/Gnosticism, corrupt flesh but saved spirit. Actively drunk, carousing, fornicating, murdering, but will waltz through the pearly gates. Thankfully not many hold this -- but if you ever hear "BACKSLIDDEN-BUT-SAVED", that's what it is.

2. Eternal security -- anyone can be saved, but once "in" either too changed to fall, or God "keeps" the person (sometimes even ending their lives.)

3. Sovereign-Predestined-Salvation (Reformed Theology, Calvinism). God creates some to be righteous and live, but He creates and ordains most to be wicked and perish.

And all three of them violently oppose all of Scripture. #3 is by far the hardest to convince to its proponents; there are at least 61 verses (four "primaries" Eph1:4-5, Eph1:11, Rm8:29-35, Rm9:11-21) and 57+ "secondaries"; and every verse must be proven NON-predestinary before your RT brother might even reconsider the doctrine. As long as his arms hold any verses, he will "shake the dust from his feet" over you -- it is an elevated, superior "have-arrived" position, usually with considerable repute invested.

But in all things we "speak the truth in love", that our exhortation build and not destroy, that we lead them to deeper fellowship with Him rather than "destroy a brother for whom Christ died".

Once we become "ONE" with God and Christ.....and we are now "IN CHRIST"..
Something interesting has happened.
Its this..
God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, are all in us.
Christ is God. So, "Christ is you, the hope of Glory" is God in you your Hope of Glory.
We are their domain, their place of eternal residency.

All right, let's change your teaching. In 2Jn1:7-9 we are to guard against deceivers, that we not lose what we have wrought; (because) anyone who goes too far (or "goes on ahead") and does not abide in the teachings of Christ, has not God; he who abides has the Father and the Son. This connects with 1Jn2:26-28, "abide in Him (again against deceivers!) SO THAT we not shrink in shame at His coming." Exactly what does that mean to you?

In Rev3:11, "Take care lest someone STEAL YOUR CROWN" -- Exactly what "crown" can people steal? Are there sins that God will overlook, they may cause us to lose a few HEAVENLY REWARDS (shiny crowns) but not eternity itself? What sins are those? What wickedness is God okay with? How is the "stephanos-crown" in Rev3:11, not the same "stephanos-zoe-crown-of-life" in James1:12?

If you die, you will come out of the Grave, if you are born again.
Why?
Because Jesus, who is the RESURRECTiON.....>He IS The Resurrection, will resurrect you. And why? Because He's IN YOU to Stay.

Really. Then let's deal with 1Tim2:11-13 --- if we died then we shall also live with Him; if we endure then we shall reign with Him. If we DENY Him then He will deny us (Matt10:33); if we are faithless yet He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself.

Think we can be "faithlessly-saved"? No -- Eph2:8. Can we be "denying-Jesus-SAVED"? No! Your understanding isn't working here, is it? No offense meant...

And this can't be changed by our behavior, or a bad mood, or being angry with God because your Kid died, or because your wife or husband was unfaithful, or whatever reason you have that makes you really hate God..........yet, you are born again.

Right. Then let's mark out Rev2:4-5, and start marking out a WHOLE LOT of verses. Like Rom11:

"Do not be conceited but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God -- to those who fell, severity; to you kindness if you CONTINUE in His kindness else you also will be CUT OFF. And they also will be grafted in again, if they do not continue in unbelief..."
​

Yeah we'll just start marking out dozens of passages like these. Right?

See, the Legalist, has a self righteousness issue. They are always trying to make and keep themselves RIGHT with God.
"Self Righteousness" is....trying by SELF.....EFFORT........to keep yourself right with God, or in the case of an unbeliever, to make yourself right with God.

Someone who has "fallen from Grace"... Has fallen away from Grace, within their faith...within their understanding.
God has not changed....His Grace is the same....but the person has mentally departed from Right Believing.
To "fall from Grace" is not to lose your salvation, but it means that you have mentally descended from Grace BACK into the "flesh" as Paul teaches..= or the carnal mind, regarding your faith becoming Legalistic.

WOW. I don't often see someone espouse "Antinomianism". That violates 1Cor6:9-11, Eph5:5-6, Gal5:19-21, most all of 1Jn especially ch3, and many others! (1John was written to oppose Gnosticism!) All those plainly say "WILL NOT INHERIT". Period. Not negotiable.

So much of Scripture is OSNAS; 2Cor11:3 plainly says we are at the SAME risk of deception away from Jesus, as Eve experienced in the Garden. 1Tim4:1 says it. Then entire letters -- all of James warns "don't-fall-from-salvation", all of Galatians ("known by God, begun in the Spirit, running well and obeying the truth can turn back to weak worthless things to become enslaved all over again and become SEVERED FROM CHRIST and FALLEN FROM GRACE!!!) All of 2Peter, and the worst is Hebrews. The entire letter of Hebrews is solidly OSNAS. 2:1-3, 3;8, 3:12-14, 4:1, 4:11, 5:14-6:6, 6:7-8, 6:11-12, 10:26-29, 10:35, 12:1. 12:7-9, 12:15, 12:25, 13:9.

How much are you willing to mark out?

Heb3:8 "do not harden your hearts", and 3:12-14 "take care brethren lest there be in any of you an unbelieving heart that FALLS AWAY FROM GOD, but encourage one another lest anyone of you be HARDENED BY DECEITFUL SIN; for we are partners in Christ IF we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.”​

Any part of that ambiguous?

You have become a self savor.
You are now on the Cross, trying to keep yourself saved, and Jesus has been ripped off the Nails by your WRONG BELIEVING.

This is the Legalist.

You know, behind the whole discussion, is the question, "What is salvation? What do the sheep have that the goats do not?" The majority of those who think they're saved, have no idea.

"Yes I'm saved, because I believe ____"

That's not even the start! Salvation is not WHAT we believe, or what we know! Salvation is -- what? Anyone?

Three questions -- sum up what Jesus was about, the Gospel, the empty tomb, the Cross, in ONE WORD. Why did the veil tear? Someone walks up to you and asks, "What does born-again mean?" You can tell him in one word -- anyone know the word? (It's not "faith", it's not "love", it's not "salvation".) What's the word?

Second question, why would anyone want to go to Heaven? Rewards, crowns, mansions? (No.) Better than Hell? (No.) Friends family loved-ones? (No.) What's in Heaven for us?

Third question, and you'll answer the other two -- what's the GREATEST COMMANDMENT? Jesus was asked this and gave two answers (on which all of law and prophets was based). What was His answer?

What are YOUR answers, everyone?

 

[APAK]

Welcome, and you will have a very difficult time getting a response from Behold. He has not been sighted since May this year.

So while I'm in this post, are you born-again with the Spirit, never been born-again without the Spirit, or used to be born-again with the Spirit, and now it has departed and you are trying yourself in earnest to get it back again? curious...APAK

 

[Gadgetere]

Welcome,

:hug:

and you will have a very difficult time getting a response from Behold. He has not been sighted since May this year.

I hope and pray he is well, and blessed.

So while I'm in this post, are you born-again with the Spirit, never been born-again without the Spirit,

There is no "born-again" (born or begotten from above), without the Spirit. (And the Spirit is not received by the unrepentant unbelieving...)

There is no second "baptism-by-the-Spirit"; to believe in Jesus is to receive or be baptized with the Spirit, one cannot receive Jesus without receiving the Spirit.

or used to be born-again with the Spirit, and now it has departed and you are trying yourself in earnest to get it back again?

I am the same as you, and everyone who wears the moniker of "Christian" -- I believe, I receive Jesus and the Spirit, I dwell behind the veil in the presence of Almighty God only because of His great love. In my hand I bring -- NOTHING. For I am nothing without Him, He is everything in and through me.

(Right answer?)

curious...APAK

Curiosity is a good thing, especially when wrought in love between brothers. For there is one Savior, and we ain't Him. We are only to love each other, to take care of their needs, to share Jesus and Scripture as we understand them, and to delight in the eternity which has already begun in the hearts of those who belong to Him.

RE "trying-to-get-it-back-again" -- God's faithfulness is guaranteed, He will never leave nor forsake us, He is fully reliable. We, however, are not so guaranteed. We do not pursue deeds, for "if it be by DEEDS (ergon things we do!), then grace is no longer grace." Rm11:6. Yet deeds are how we test ourselves (2Cor13:5), to determine how close we are to Him. Inasmuch as sin is a constant and daily choice (1Cor10:13), we must acknowledge that there are only two real-estates in the Universe -- in Christ, or in sin. As James says, "God tempts no one; each is tempted when enticed and carried away by his own lusts; then lust conceived births sin, and sin brings death -- do not be deceived beloved brethren."

Did James mean "spiritual death"? Absolutely. Same as in 5:19-20, IF one falls away from the faith and IF another leads him back, THEN his soul is saved (again!) and his sins covered.

We are slaves, we have no choice; we can only choose which master we serve. Sin, or God (Rom6). Enslavement to God is a bondage of LOVE, for "love cannot demand its own way" (1Cor13:5); God is love, he who abides in love abides in God and God abides in him. (1Jn4:16) And over and over we are warned "to abide in God" -- not by our own muscle, but by the Spirit's power. It is by the Spirit we put to death the flesh (for if we live by the flesh we must die) -- Rom8:12. I love 1Tim1:12-14, I know whom I have believed, and am convinced He is able to guard that which I entrust to Him (God's grace and faithfulness, my salvation through voluntary faith). Hold fast the sound words (abide in His teaching, 1Tim4:16!), GUARD, by the SPIRIT WHO INWELLS you, the treasure (eternal life!) entrusted to you!"

The Spirit is literally crying out to us, "Take My hand, use Me, exploit My power! For I will empower you! Do not fight sin you will lose; let Me fill your heart and soul -- draw near to Jesus, for the more Jesus fills you the farther you are from sin, and all your sins will already be defeated a thousand years ago from the Cross!" (James4:6-10, Eph5:18)

1Peter1 says the inheritance is eternal and unperishable and will not fade away, but it is reserved in Heaven for us, and we are protected by the power of God THROUGH FAITH for a salvation to be revealed in the end time. Whose faith? Faith that God sovereignly gives TO a few favorites (Calvinistic misunderstanding of verses like Rm12:3)? No; verse 9 says it is the outcome of OUR FAITH by which we receive salvation.

On Eph2:8 noted Greek scholar and Bible Commentator A.T.Robertson says, "Grace is God's part, faith is ours"; Rom1:17 commentary says "pistews eis pistin", from faith-the-start-to-faith-the-goal --- God's grace is revealed from BEGINNING faith to ENDING faith, we are to live BY faith.

It is so much more important how we finish, than how we start. Paul laments "race so as to WIN; but I buffet my body, lest after I have preached to others I myself might be disqualified." (1Cor9:25-27)

Disqualified. Adokimos. Same as in 2Cor13:5; we test ourselves to make sure we are not disqualified/unapproved/castaway. Contrast that with DOKIMOS approved -- "study to show yourself approved" (2Tim2:15), and "blessed is he who perseveres under trial; for when he has PASSED THE TEST (dokimos been approved), he will receive the crown of life, which He has promised to those who love Him. (Same "trial-by-fire" in 1Pet1:6-7, it is by trials that our faith is proven).

It takes considerable effort to deny "forfeitable salvation" in Scripture. All three views of OSAS are really nothing other than the First Lie that satan told Eve: "Don't worry, you won't really die."

Yes, we can; if we are not diligent to abide in Him. Goodness, even Jude (I forget which chapter) in verses 20-21, "BUILD YOURSELVES in holy faith, KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God awaiting anxiously His mercy to eternal life!"

It's pretty clear, isn't it?



(BTW, a lot of verses are being cited; if anyone thinks he or she does not have to look them up [to see if the citer uses them correctly], please be advised there WILL BE a test, and it WILL GO on your permanent record!!!)

 

[marks]

RE "trying-to-get-it-back-again" -- God's faithfulness is guaranteed, He will never leave nor forsake us, He is fully reliable. We, however, are not so guaranteed. We do not pursue deeds, for "if it be by DEEDS (ergon things we do!), then grace is no longer grace." Rm11:6. Yet deeds are how we test ourselves (2Cor13:5), to determine how close we are to Him.

It takes considerable effort to deny "forfeitable salvation" in Scripture. All three views of OSAS are really nothing other than the First Lie that satan told Eve: "Don't worry, you won't really die."

Yes, we can; if we are not diligent to abide in Him.

These two statements show a contradiction to me.

You must be diligent to remain in Christ and in so doing remain in salvation, and, God is fully reliable. Well, maybe that's the Question. God is faithful to do what exactly? Reliable for what? It seems you are showing that God is not reliable to see our salvation through to the end. Where do you see His faithfulness ending?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 8:5-9 LITV
5) For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.
6) For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.

Isn't the teaching here that we are not in flesh, and are in spirit, because the Spirit of God dwells in us, and not for some other reason?

Much love!

 

[Gadgetere]

These two statements show a contradiction to me.

You must be diligent to remain in Christ and in so doing remain in salvation, and, God is fully reliable.

Hi, Marks. Did you read what I quoted from 1Peter? The INHERITANCE is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, but it is reserved in Heaven -- and our possession OF it is our constant choice.

BTW, Peter's second letter is one of the "entire letters that ruin OSAS" --- ch1 those who have "receive a faith the same as ours", they have "escaped corruption through the epignosis-true-knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus"; exact same words as in 2Pet2:20-22, "if after having epignosis-escaped defilements through the epignosis-true-knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus" (exact same words as ch1!), "if they are again entangled and overcome (verse 18 the "truly escaped" are enticed back into defilements by the never-escaped-false-teachers-and-prophets), they are worse than BEFORE they WERE SAVED. Better to have never KNOWN (epiginosko, they really knew it!) the way of righteousness, than after HAVING KNOWN it, to have turned away from (epistrepho a real spiritual turning!) it!

And 3:17 don't be carried away by deceivers to fall from our own steadfastness -- pure "OSNAS"...

Well, maybe that's the Question. God is faithful to do what exactly? Reliable for what? It seems you are showing that God is not reliable to see our salvation through to the end. Where do you see His faithfulness ending?

God is faithful to our receiving His grace; but that doesn't happen just one time, it's daily.

"Do not walk as the Gentiles do, darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God. LAY ASIDE the old man which is being corrupted in the lusts of deceit; be renewed in the spirit of your mind, PUT ON the new man which in the likeness of God is created in righteousness and holiness of the truth!" (Eph4;15-17, repeated in Col3).

See again Col2:6-8, walk in Him and guard against those trying to deceive us way from Jesus!

Much love!

And to you, brother; you are my "treasure I can take with me".

 

[marks]

Hi, Marks. Did you read what I quoted from 1Peter? The INHERITANCE is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, but it is reserved in Heaven -- and our possession OF it is our constant choice.

1 Peter 1:3-5 LITV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, He according to His great mercy having regenerated us to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in Heaven for you
5) the ones in the power of God being guarded through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time;

Who is it that is guarding us? What is He guarding us for?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God is faithful to our receiving His grace; but that doesn't happen just one time, it's daily.

That's an interesting idea. Are you saying that we are being reborn daily?

Much love!

 

[Gadgetere]

Romans 8:5-9 LITV
5) For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.
6) For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.

What do you think of Col3, "SET your minds not on earthly things, but on things above"?

9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.

Isn't the teaching here that we are not in flesh, and are in spirit, because the Spirit of God dwells in us, and not for some other reason?

Very, very good (citing Rom8). Well done!

Now, continue -- "For if we walk in the flesh WE MUST DIE; but if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the body, we will live!"

Do you think Paul meant these words? CAN we die if we walk after the flesh?

 

[marks]

Very, very good (citing Rom8). Well done!

Now, continue -- "

But you didn't answer my question.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you think Paul meant these words? CAN we die if we walk after the flesh?

Another question . . . can we die if we are alive in Christ?

John 11:25-26 KJV
25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Whoever lives (now) and believes in Me (now) shall never die (future).

Believest thou this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 8:5-9 LITV
5) For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.
6) For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;
7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.

Isn't the teaching here that we are not in flesh, and are in spirit, because the Spirit of God dwells in us, and not for some other reason?

Much love!

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit, Who lives in us, seals us "unto the day of redemption". Who is able to undo that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Now, continue -- "For if we walk in the flesh WE MUST DIE; but if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the body, we will live!"

What does Paul mean when he talks about putting to death the deeds of the body?

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

 

[Gadgetere]

That's an interesting idea. Are you saying that we are being reborn daily?

Well, to be careful --- what I am saying, what you are saying, what anyone is saying, is irrelevant. We strive to reveal what SCRIPTURE says.

Look at this:
"Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above... Set your minds on the things above and not on things on earth. You have laid aside the old self with its evil practices, and have put on the new self which is being renewed to the true knowledge according to the image of Him..." Col3.

"Lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit; put on the new self which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth." Eph4:22-23."

Do you think that "the old sinful self" is gone forever? Clearly not; it is a daily walk to put on the new self and to walk in Jesus, isn't it? So yes "if anyone be in Christ he is a new creation, the old has passed away and all has become new" (2Cor5:17), but that is a condition in which we must WALK. Travel back to Romans 6 --- we are "born again", dead to sin; but sometimes the sinful old dead man lives and we sin -- ch7 is about the war between the old dead-but-not-gone sinful man, and the new righteous man. It is in despair that Paul cries out, "Wretched man that I am, who will SAVE me from this war within?"

And chapter 8 is the solution; we do not walk after the flesh, but by the Spirit's power we put to death the flesh.

Please re-read 1Cor10:12-13 --- sin is always a choice; God provides the escape for sin, but we must choose it. In verse 12 "Let he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall" --- what do you think he means by "fall"? Yes the next verse says we can sin; but is there a "fall" that turns to sin, but remains saved? What sins are "okay" with God?

We always have a choice to sin. And sins do not condemn us, just as LACK-of-sins does not save us. When we sin -- we face the same choice, to sin again, or to throw ourselves at His feet in remorse and repentance imploring Him to empower us to avoid the NEXT sin.

We see that is is not the SIN that will condemn he-who-is-saved, it is the "again"...

Make sense? We sometimes sin; but we do not walk in sin. How we handle our sin is our "perseverance" (or not); do we walk in repentance constantly seeking His presence to more avoid sin?

Christianity is a FELLOWSHIP, a true union between two people. Does He know us? "Behold I stand at the door and knock". Where is Jesus? Is He inside, dining with us?

...or is He still outside knocking?

Hebrews10:13 says "do not throw away your confidence" -- JESUS is our confidence; if we walk in sin, then we throw Him away!

...don't we?

 

[Gadgetere]

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Good for you --- unTO, not unTIL. It is an "earnest", which can be broken...

The Holy Spirit, Who lives in us, seals us "unto the day of redemption". Who is able to undo that?

What do you think about all the verses we have been reading together about "abide in Him"? What was John teaching in 1:2:26-28?

 

[Gadgetere]

What does Paul mean when he talks about putting to death the deeds of the body?

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Much love!

I think I've replied to this; Eph4 and Col3 warns us to "lay aside the old sinful man, and put on the new righteous man" -- that is a continual thing, isn't it? And we've read together Rom7, and Rom8. Romans 6-8 is a triplet, we cannot separate the chapters; and we are not supposed to live in chapter 7, we're supposed to live in chapter 8. Seven is struggle and defeat, eight is victory; His power, His sacrifice, through our faith.

What did you think about Rom1:17, "from beginning faith to ending faith"? Do you see that in Galatians, "Having begun in the Spirit, are you now ending in the flesh" And, "You are KNOWN BY GOD, how is it you are turning back to weak worthless things to become enslaved all over again?" And (you who are seeking to again be justified by law), you are APO-KATARGEO-severed from Christ, and EKPIPTO-CHARIS fallen from grace!

What do you think when you read verses like these?

 

[Gadgetere]

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The Spirit can be grieved (this verse), can be resisted (Acts7:15), and can be insulted (and by one who WAS SANCTIFIED, Heb10:29) What happens to the Spirit when He is resisted, grieved, or insulted? Does He still indwell?