OSAS.... what does this really mean ?

[ChristisGod]

I'm sorry . . .

I believe that even though people are involved in churches that we may label as "false", that even though they are in these false churches, yet some of these just might come to Christ anyways. I think that some people have become true Christians while in these false churches, and that God has had them remain, as missionaries.

So . . . feel free to ask for clarification, and please do drop all that personal nonsense. Aren't you concerned that it makes you look petty?

Much love!

obviously you do not know or associate with any JW's. they disfellowship or excommunicate you when you disagree with any of their doctrines and so do their families.

My son is dating an ex JW who has been in the cult since birth.

And one of my best friends father in law was a gilead grad and circuit overseer for 20 years in the JW's organization.


any more fallacious arguments you want to share regarding the JW cult ?

 

[marks]

any more fallacious arguments you want to share regarding the JW cult ?

No, I've really lost interest in our discussions. Too many circles and deflections.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

No, I've really lost interest in our discussions. Too many circles and deflections.

Much love!

I know what I'm talking about with JW's since I have personally known family and friends in the cult and am familiar with all of their teachings/doctrines, church disciplines etc.........

No wonder you are losing interest because I speak from personal experience and affiliation with the group.

The solution is really a simple one for you mark, stop responding to my posts, otherwise I will challenge you when you are misrepresenting a group like the JW's.

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

JOB ONE.....JOB 1, regarding a MODERATOR and a CREATOR of of "Christian Forum".... is not to referee or exist to protect your favorite members....
No, JOB 1, is to protect the NEW BELIEVER from bering RUINED by heretics as found on a "christian" forum.
Got that? !
Thats Job 1.
Never doubt it.

No, that is job 1 of those who are called to defend the faith on forums like these.

It is not anyone's job to squelch the freedom of speech of the members of any forum.

I will say again that God is not afraid of dissenting opinions...He is able to adequately deal with false doctrine through His chosen vessels who know His word.

But if you start banning people whom you disagree with, be careful lest you ban God's chosen servants (for you may have a wrong opinion where they are right on an issue).

It is important that doctrine be played out biblically and that all sides of an argument be allowed to present themselves. Only in this can we come to a proper conclusion on what the holy scriptures truly mean. If a false argument is deleted or the person carrying it be banned, then there will be no opportunity for those who know the word to refute that argument and show the reality of the situation. Seeing the process by which we come to a solid conclusion can be beneficial for everyone.

'nuff said!

 

[justbyfaith]

Either it's done "in order", or it's a free for all.

But God is still able to teach His church.

Much love!

Better to have a "free for all" than to have freedom of speech be lost in our culture.

God does, and by their fruits you shall know them.

Much love!

Indeed. So then, it would be wrong to ban a member simply because you disagree with their point of view.

Moderation should be made concerning bouts of showing forth bad fruit.

However, I think that even then, it is useful to see those bouts as people who are attempting to discern who is a true or false teacher in a group. Because if those bouts of bearing bad fruit are deleted or hidden, how will anyone know who the false teachers are?

That's not exactly what He said.

Much love!

It is what He meant.

 

[marks]

No wonder you are losing interest because

Like I said . . . it's more your methods and style.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

@marks,

Give @Christophany the benefit of the doubt...

I don't think that his methods and/or style is too far off-base...

At least I have not experienced any problems from him myself.

If he is calling you out on your doctrine, maybe you should reconsider your doctrine rather than shooting the messenger.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

A Christian should feel exactly about a "cult", as God feels about it.
= Offended.
Nothing offends the Holy Spirit more then a cult that is built on Cross rejection, Mary Worship, and self effort doctrine that tries to replace the Blood of Jesus as the ONLY means of Salvation.

Show me a Catholic and i'll show you someone who believes that WATER has saved them. That WATER has taken care of their Sin.
Show me a Catholic Bible and i'll show you where this twisted book states that you are "born again by water".
This Cross rejection, offends God, and blasphemes the Blood of Jesus.

You know me well enough to know that I absolutely HATE Catholic Doctrine..... wanna see me ” foam at the mouth” with Righteous Anger ? Just “ mention” the damned-by-God Fairy Tale Of Purgatory or how Catholic Doctrine says that if you Believe In “ Justification by Faith” you are “ anethema”..... #*#= )(^()/*!!!!...........It makes my Blood Boil! You know that.There is a big part of me that wants to see all adherents to that “ Faith” go unsaved.Paul said Of some that their Damnation was well- deserved.
HOWEVER! .......there are some verses that I can not get around. Jesus said that “ If you will acknowledge “ ME” before men— I will acknowledge “ YOU” before God”.....That let’s TONS of people “in” that I don’t think should be in at all. But then....I ain’t God.......
Here is another verse that gives me hesitation to declare them damned , in my view..... 1 Thess 4:14...... below.......


13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

In these verses , Paul says if you believe in the Resurrection Of Jesus— Plus Nothing—- not even saying as 1 Cor15:1-4 states that you must also believe that “ Jesus died for your sins” —- you will be Saved.....

I have attended enough Catholic Funerals to know that “ Resurrection” is VERY HEAVILY emphasized in their services ....It is my honest opinion that the vast majority of Catholics “ DO” get at least “ ONE” thing correct ....Jesus walked out of that tomb in a physical body after three days, just as He said he would ! Believing in “ That Alone “ is enough to Save them, if we understand that verse from Thessalonians correctly.....
You probably are aware of the immense influence that the Great Bible Teacher, Zola Levitt has had on my Beliefs.....Zola wrote, “ All Of Those That Believe In the Resurrection Of Jesus Christ will be declared “Fit for Heaven” , and that’s ALL THERE IS TO THAT!”....... case closed.....
Zola has Chapter and Verse ( the above 1 Thess. Quote ) —- if not for “ that”, I would not give two hoots in Hell for his or any other man’s opinion....
What is your “ take” on these things, my old friend and Brother?

 

[justbyfaith]

Read 1 John 5:1 and compare it to 1 John 3:9.

It might tell you that believing in Jesus (having bona fide faith in Him) means that you will not be a worker of iniquity (see also Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

Here is more...it is because the love of the Lord is shed abroad in your heart that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you if you believe (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5; Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4)....so you will not be one who commits sin if you place your faith in Jesus, for the rest of your everlasting life (see also 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).

 

[ChristisGod]

Now you want to talk about your forum buddies?
Yet earlier you decided to inform us that your idea of a "christian forum" is to BRING it and lets see who can be the biggest jerk.
Well, you won that one, by a large margin.
Now listen carefully, .. If you had the Love of God in you and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit on you, you would not only be interested in created strife, hard feelings, and anger on a "christian" forum.
Understand?
And one more point that you need to get..... that i made.
Its this...
JOB ONE.....JOB 1, regarding a MODERATOR and a CREATOR of of "Christian Forum".... is not to referee or exist to protect your favorite members....
No, JOB 1, is to protect the NEW BELIEVER from bering RUINED by heretics as found on a "christian" forum.
Got that? !
Thats Job 1.
Never doubt it.

more ad hominems try defending your beliefs.

can you state the 5 most important or essential things someone must believe in the bible ?

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, this is the fundamental pivotal truth and the basis for further study...

No this is the fundamental truth below which you reject.

Yet all unbelievers deny the Deity of Christ. One must confess He is Lord(YHWH) to be saved. ( Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13)Those who deny this truth as Jesus said are dead in their sins. ( John 8:24).No one can say Jesus is Lord(YHWH) except by the Spirit. The spirit of antichrist as per 1 and 2 John denies this essential truth of salvation that he is God in the flesh, God Incarnate. Its a bullet proof test of the spirits to see who speaks for God and who does not. A way to tell the truth from a lie. Who is in the Light and who is in the darkness. Who has the spirit of God and who has the spirit of antichrist.

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

No this is the fundamental truth below which you reject.

Yet all unbelievers deny the Deity of Christ. One must confess He is Lord(YHWH) to be saved. ( Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13)Those who deny this truth as Jesus said are dead in their sins. ( John 8:24).No one can say Jesus is Lord(YHWH) except by the Spirit. The spirit of antichrist as per 1 and 2 John denies this essential truth of salvation that he is God in the flesh, God Incarnate. Its a bullet proof test of the spirits to see who speaks for God and who does not. A way to tell the truth from a lie. Who is in the Light and who is in the darkness. Who has the spirit of God and who has the spirit of antichrist.

hope this helps !!!

I do like two sentences of your paragraph and not so much the rest, you know, the deliberately poisoned parts. Can you guess the ones I like? Then, maybe not. And Christo, your stuff really does not help me at all, or for the matter, most other people that understand and are true to the word of God.

So you can stop hoping now it does....lol

 

[ChristisGod]

I do like two sentences of your paragraph and not so much the rest, you know, the deliberately poisoned parts. Can you guess the ones I like? Then, maybe not. And Christo, your stuff really does not help me at all, or for the matter, most other people that understand and are true to the word of God.

So you can stop hoping now it does....lol

yes there is a GREAT CHASM between your jesus and the Jesus of the Scriptures who is God manifest in the flesh (Emmanuel)which you deny. Jesus own words expose your view is unbiblical since He said that He who has seen Me has seen the Father, why ask to see the Father ? You are looking at God. Thomas confessed and worshiped Him when recognizing that Jesus is his Lord and his God in John 20:28-30. All creation worships Him in heaven as we read in Revelation 4 and 5. He is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. All titles of YHWH in the O.T.

Jesus said unless you believe I Am ( Ego Eime- YHWH Ex 3:14) you will die in your sins !

hope this helps !!!

 

[APAK]

yes there is a GREAT CHASM between your jesus and the Jesus of the Scriptures who is God manifest in the flesh (Emmanuel)which you deny. Jesus own words expose your view is unbiblical since He said that He who has seen Me has seen the Father, why ask to see the Father ? You are looking at God. Thomas confessed and worshiped Him when recognizing that Jesus is his Lord and his God in John 20:28-30. All creation worships Him in heaven as we read in Revelation 4 and 5. He is the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. All titles of YHWH in the O.T.

Jesus said unless you believe I Am ( Ego Eime- YHWH Ex 3:14) you will die in your sins !

hope this helps !!!

Enjoy your day....

 

[ChristisGod]

Enjoy your day....

I enjoy every day serving my great God and Savior Jesus Christ who is my Lord and my God.( John 20:28)

Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

Jesus said unless you believe I Am ( Ego Eime- YHWH Ex 3:14) you will die in your sins !

so that right there should put an end to any three separate and distinct persons. for Jesus is the "I AM" the same one who created all thing according to John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24....... now that same ONE person is "diversified" in flesh as, as, in likeness of a man. so when you see me you see the Father because that's the Father's own ARM, (Isaiah 63:5), that is Revealed in Flesh, (Isaiah chapter 53)... BINGO.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

@marks,

Give @Christophany the benefit of the doubt...

I don't think that his methods and/or style is too far off-base...

At least I have not experienced any problems from him myself.

If he is calling you out on your doctrine, maybe you should reconsider your doctrine rather than shooting the messenger.

I think you may get a more rounded view by reading some of his posts to me.

But if you have no issues with ongoing ad hominems . . . The thing is, he's barely willing to discuss doctrine. He mostly responds with personal nonsense.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

I think you may get a more rounded view by reading some of his posts to me.

But if you have no issues with ongoing ad hominems . . . The thing is, he's barely willing to discuss doctrine. He mostly responds with personal nonsense.

Much love!

ad hominem duly noted.

For a rebuttal of you view of the 2 natures in Christ see below.

I put this together some time ago but it is pertinent to this discussion. I've been studying this topic for over 4 decades now and I'm well verses on the H.U.

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the fifth general council at Constantinople, 533 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).


We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

No, I've really lost interest in our discussions. Too many circles and deflections.

Much love!

What you call deflection is what I call the truth. This post speaks for itself as I have personal experience with the cult unlike you mark.

I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the JW cult. My son is dating an ex JW from birth and her dad was an elder in the WTS(watchtower society) for 20 years. And I have been personally debating them for over 4 decades.

Here is my best friends father in law Don Nelson, a former Jehovah's Witness who served as a Circuit Overseer and Gilead Missionary. He was featured in the DVD video "Jehovah's Witnesses - a non-prophet organization."

 

[marks]

So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity

Except, as previously noted, this does not agree with Scripture. We've been down this road over and over. You claim Jesus' omniscience during His earthly life, I point out there was something He didn't know. You claim Jesus' omnipotence during His earthly life, and I point out that there were things He could not do. You claim that what Jesus did, He did out of His Deity. I point out that Jesus said He could do nothing of Himself, but He only said what the Father spoke, only did what the Father did.

Jesus explained to the Pharisees that the Spirit Who empowered the works He did was the Holy Spirit.

God tells us how all this is. He emptied Himself.

You even seem to acknowledge this truth.

Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.

This was Jesus' entire life. Jesus emptied Himself and became a man, and He lived His life as a man, doing that God did, saying what God said, doing Nothing of Himself. The perfect sacrifice. Not just in death, in life. Fully obedient, a fully righteous human life. And not because He tapped into His Godly powers, but because He trusted His Father, and was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Much love!