OSAS.... what does this really mean ?

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marks

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Matthew 7:21 - what Lord are you talking about, you should heed Jesus words.

He will be telling many that I never knew you !

what on earth are ALL the warning in the bible concerning false christs and false teachers for ?

if what you say is true then so is universalism since you can believe whatever you want about jesus and be saved.

instead of all dogs go to heaven, its all cults go to heaven

I've heard it all now.
You've never met someone who is in a church that's got it all wrong, but that they themselves still managed to be found by God through it all? I believe I have. Some have gone from their churches to ones with a clearer faith. But I remember one fellow, his answer was more a wink, that God wanted him where he was.

And, Please, get past this habit of yours of falsely restating my view into something that I don't say or even think. Seriously man! Do you not see how empty that is? It's patently obvious that you don't want to give a real response, so you throw out some schoolyard nonesense.

All cults go to heaven! Sure. Let's pretend I said that, and you can have a much easier response to devise.

But why?

Do you want to just drive me away because you don't have real responses?

Much love!
 

JohnDB

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What does OSAS really mean?

That someone wants to start a three millenia long argument that is unsupported conclusively by scriptures. (Because the other side is provable as well)

And there's a lot of other more productive things someone could do with their time.

And for the record... Jesus commented on this. And said neither side is correct.
 

WaterSong

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Eternal salvation, OSAS as it is also called, has been debated for a very long time. And there are detractors who say believing we are eternally saved gives us a license to sin. And that is why OSAS is not true.
I would contend those who go about living their life of sin are demonstrating they have not truly accepted Christ .1 John 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Therefore, we do not meet the criteria OSAS detractors offer as evidence OSAS is false.
2nd Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

For me eternal salvation is an irrevocable gift of God's grace and as such is biblical. John 3:15~18 “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”
John 10:28~30 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and My Father are one."
 
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ChristisGod

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You've never met someone who is in a church that's got it all wrong, but that they themselves still managed to be found by God through it all? I believe I have. Some have gone from their churches to ones with a clearer faith. But I remember one fellow, his answer was more a wink, that God wanted him where he was.

And, Please, get past this habit of yours of falsely restating my view into something that I don't say or even think. Seriously man! Do you not see how empty that is? It's patently obvious that you don't want to give a real response, so you throw out some schoolyard nonesense.

All cults go to heaven! Sure. Let's pretend I said that, and you can have a much easier response to devise.

But why?

Do you want to just drive me away because you don't have real responses?

Much love!
your words not mine below:


"I think Mormans and Jehovah's Witness's and all the rest can be born again, have been born again, from incomplete and sometimes erroneous ideas, and sometimes quickly, and sometimes slowly, change their understandings."


So why don't you say what you mean and mean what you say mark ?

What am I suppose to believe you said in your above statement if its not what I said in my last post ?

Please clarify what you meant mark so I can understand what that means in the quote above from you.

Why the "ambiguity " ?
 

BloodBought 1953

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I think Mormans and Jehovah's Witness's and all the rest can be born again, have been born again, from incomplete and sometimes erroneous ideas, and sometimes quickly, and sometimes slowly, change their understandings.

I think you gave a list of what you consider the essentials for salvation, does anyone really hit all these bars when they first confess their sin? Does someone have to be able to identify and define the Hypostatic Union to be saved? Or is it, All who call upon the Name of the Lord?

Hm. I just realized this is the newest OSAS thread.

Just the same, I do love you, and hope that in some way I can be conveying a gift to you!

Mark



Anybody that “ turns to God with Faith in Jesus Christ will be Saved to the Uttermost” ....that is a Promise from God.....religious affiliations mean nothing If this is true— and it IS true......
 
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BloodBought 1953

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then it sounds like a person can believe whatever they want about jesus and be saved, it doesn't matter one bit that He is God or not.

Anybody who has the Holy Spirit in them is Sealed and Saved Forever.... Anybody that can say with sincerity, “ Jesus is Lord” HAS that Spirit....simple as that....It is not true , obviously ,that we can just think whatever we like to think about the Deity Of Jesus.....to call Him “ Lord” is to call Him “God in the Flesh”—- God’s Son and Your Savior.....
One becomes Saved by Believing Pauls Gospel Found In 1Cor15:1-4...... That Gospel proclaims That Jesus died for your sins and rose from the Grave after three days....the only Person that can do these things would have to be both “ God's Son and your Savior”—- in other words, the LORD.....
“ Believe in the “ LORD” Jesus Christ and Thou shalt be Saved”.......
 

justbyfaith

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Not everyone is supposed to be teachers. Freedom of speech is something we talk about as what we like to do in this country, but we don't have an individual "right" to be teachers of God's Word.

Much love!

Who is to decide what teachers have been called and what teachers have not been called?

As soon as you start policing the message boards, you run the risk of outing preachers who are in fact called but because the moderator has a different point of view, now that teacher has been banned and his right to free speech has been effectively squelched.

I will say again, God is not afraid of dissenting opinions; He is certainly able to deal with them effectively with His own word.

When you start banning teachers for saying something that you disagree with (not realizing that they may be right and you wrong), you run the risk of quenching the Holy Spirit by stopping His vessels from being able to speak in that situation.

You don't think that we can be saved even with limited understanding? Won't God receive all who come to Him in sincerity, even if they don't get everything right? Can't He then go on to instruct them?

Again, it was Jesus who said that if we don't believe that He is the great I AM, we will die in our sins.

A person can indeed be born again apart from that knowledge; but if they are truly bron again, they will accept that knowledge when it is presented to them.

Only Jesus saves, of course.

You can't cut down a piece of a tree, carve it, cover it in gold, and say, Teach me! Save me!

But you can look at that tree . . . look at the night sky, and see the stars, and know, know in your heart Someone made all of that! And to the One Who made all that, I want You!

Will God cast them aside?

Much love!!

See above.
 

Behold

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. So if a person cannot defend their beliefs they should think twice about online forums and get plugged into a local church

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Your idea of a forum, has nothing to do with Christianity
You exist on a forum to argue your opinion, as that is all you have to offer.
So, for you, a forum is not a assembly of believers, its a plaice to pick a fight with another person's beliefs.
Your carnality is exposed., as it will be again in your next ignorant post.
 
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Behold

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My “ take” on the Catholic Church is that I know and love many Catholics ...it’s their Doctrine that I loathe . It contains so many obvious Additions to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing That all that adhere to it are “ Fallen From Grace”—- they do not know what that means and are oblivious to it anyway. Intelligent Bible teachers disagree as to what ‘ falling from Grace” entails . Does it mean walking a crippled Walk Of Faith it does it mean that one is Damned ? Beats me. Why gamble though? Don’t ADD to the Gospel! It’s Nothing But The Blood for Salvation....

A Christian should feel exactly about a "cult", as God feels about it.
= Offended.
Nothing offends the Holy Spirit more then a cult that is built on Cross rejection, Mary Worship, and self effort doctrine that tries to replace the Blood of Jesus as the ONLY means of Salvation.

Show me a Catholic and i'll show you someone who believes that WATER has saved them. That WATER has taken care of their Sin.
Show me a Catholic Bible and i'll show you where this twisted book states that you are "born again by water".
This Cross rejection, offends God, and blasphemes the Blood of Jesus.
 

ChristisGod

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You have no idea what you are talking about.
Your idea of a forum, has nothing to do with Christianity
You exist on a forum to argue your opinion, as that is all you have to offer.
So, for you, a forum is not a assembly of believers, its a plaice to pick a fight with another person's beliefs.
Your carnality is exposed., as it will be again in your next ignorant post.
that is funny because I have met some wonderful people on forums and have become friends in person where we do things together such as golf, fish, have meals together, fellowship etc..... We do life together.

So much for your ad hominem attacks.
 
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ChristisGod

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A Christian should feel exactly about a "cult", as God feels about it.
= Offended.
Nothing offends the Holy Spirit more then a cult that is built on Cross rejection, Mary Worship, and self effort doctrine that tries to replace the Blood of Jesus as the ONLY means of Salvation.

Show me a Catholic and i'll show you someone that believes that WATER has saved them. That WATER has taken care of their Sin.
This Cross rejection, offend God, and blasphemes the Blood of Jesus.
and which cult are you affiliated with ?
 

Behold

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that funny because I have met some wonderful people on forums and have become friends in person where we do things together such as golf, fish, have meals together, fellowship etc..... We do life together.

So much for your ad hominem attacks.

Now you want to talk about your forum buddies?
Yet earlier you decided to inform us that your idea of a "christian forum" is to BRING it and lets see who can be the biggest jerk.
Well, you won that one, by a large margin.
Now listen carefully, .. If you had the Love of God in you and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit on you, you would not only be interested in created strife, hard feelings, and anger on a "christian" forum.
Understand?
And one more point that you need to get..... that i made.
Its this...
JOB ONE.....JOB 1, regarding a MODERATOR and a CREATOR of of "Christian Forum".... is not to referee or exist to protect your favorite members....
No, JOB 1, is to protect the NEW BELIEVER from bering RUINED by heretics as found on a "christian" forum.
Got that? !

Thats Job 1.
Never doubt it.
 
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ChristisGod

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Now you want to talk about your forum buddies?
Yet earlier you decided to inform us that your idea of a "christian forum" is to BRING it and lets see who can be the biggest jerk.
Well, you won that one, by a large margin.
Now listen carefully, .. If you had the Love of God in you and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit on you, you would not only be interested in created strife, hard feelings, and anger on a "christian" forum.
Understand?
And one more point that you need to get..... that i made.
Its this...
JOB ONE.....JOB 1, regarding a MODERATOR and a CREATOR of of "Christian Forum".... is not to referee or exist to protect your favorite members....
No, JOB 1, is to protect the NEW BELIEVER from bering RUINED by heretics as found on a "christian" forum.
Got that? !

Thats Job 1.
Never doubt it.
ad hominem attack is s sure sign of defeat that your argument is invalid and you are unable to defend your position. see definition below.


Ad hominem
An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their argument or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.
 

WaterSong

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Its a shame that the reality is, that a New Believer, a Baby Christian, can't find one "christian" Forum, on this earth, where they can go and not be faith destroyed by heretics.
It should not be so, but that is the case.
It would seem to me, that an Owner of a Christian forum, and Mods, would have as JOB 1, the KNOWLEDGE that Believer's have to be protected from heretics.....but instead....>"christian" forums are really just "park and preach" gateways, where the Mods sort of sit and wait for it to become too intense, then they run in and ban someone.
But that solves nothing.

Here is how you resolve 99% of the Devil's accomplishments, using a "christian" forum.

You simple state in the TOS that you may not discuss..

1. Lose your Salvation

2. God chooses some for Heaven, but not all.

And then you enforce it.

See, just get RID of those 2 Heretical TREASURES, and all Christian Forums potentially become a God honoring Place to be.

Will this ever happen?
Nope.
And the Devil loves this fact.
I disagree with that first part regarding Heretics.
I hearken to the wisdom found in 1Peter 3.

I think if we encounter such people we might consider them to be a blessing rather than the curse they may hope to impart of themselves in that effort. And because I think they afford us an opportunity to commit by example and grow within the teaching found in 1st Peter.

"Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you may be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ."
 

marks

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your words not mine below:


"I think Mormans and Jehovah's Witness's and all the rest can be born again, have been born again, from incomplete and sometimes erroneous ideas, and sometimes quickly, and sometimes slowly, change their understandings."


So why don't you say what you mean and mean what you say mark ?

What am I suppose to believe you said in your above statement if its not what I said in my last post ?

Please clarify what you meant mark so I can understand what that means in the quote above from you.

Why the "ambiguity " ?
I'm sorry . . .

I believe that even though people are involved in churches that we may label as "false", that even though they are in these false churches, yet some of these just might come to Christ anyways. I think that some people have become true Christians while in these false churches, and that God has had them remain, as missionaries.

So . . . feel free to ask for clarification, and please do drop all that personal nonsense. Aren't you concerned that it makes you look petty?

Much love!
 

marks

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Who is to decide what teachers have been called and what teachers have not been called?

As soon as you start policing the message boards, you run the risk of outing preachers who are in fact called but because the moderator has a different point of view, now that teacher has been banned and his right to free speech has been effectively squelched.

I will say again, God is not afraid of dissenting opinions; He is certainly able to deal with them effectively with His own word.

When you start banning teachers for saying something that you disagree with (not realizing that they may be right and you wrong), you run the risk of quenching the Holy Spirit by stopping His vessels from being able to speak in that situation.



Again, it was Jesus who said that if we don't believe that He is the great I AM, we will die in our sins.

A person can indeed be born again apart from that knowledge; but if they are truly bron again, they will accept that knowledge when it is presented to them.



See above.
Either it's done "in order", or it's a free for all.

But God is still able to teach His church.

Much love!
 

marks

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ad hominem attack is s sure sign of defeat that your argument is invalid and you are unable to defend your position. see definition below.


Ad hominem
An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their argument or opinion. Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.