Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[Enow]

Whether you like it or not, some will sincerely believe in this. So the thing to do is agree to disagree and move on.

Yes, as the Lord enables me.

But one can hope that those tongue speakers that can see that the "holy laughter" movement and "slain in the spirit" as not of Him, and yet notice that they got tongues the same way of a spirit coming over them in bringing that tongue, for why it is not coming with interpretation and thus another trademark of confusion, they may shun that tongue for private use with His help, return to their first love, and pray normally again so when they get answers to prayers, they may give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers which is the will of God for us to do.

 

[Truther]

Sharing a couple of excerpts from this link:

The Pagan Origins of Modern “Speaking in Tongues”

"His story reminded me of the fact that unintelligible babbling known as “speaking in tongues” in the modern Pentecostal movement is widely practiced in cults and even in non-Christian and pagan religions."

Scriptural proof for that is Isaiah 8:19.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? KJV

So that means there was a supernatural tongue that was just babbling nonsense before God's gift of tongues came at Pentecost of other men's lips to speak unto the people in their native tongues.

More excerpts below from the link;

"Richard Ganz, in 20 Controversies that Almost Killed a Church (p 212) says that this kind of babbling is practiced by Mormons, The Way International, Hindus, Muslims and many others.

But this practice is not only a recent phenomenon, but was common in pagan worship long before Christ came. Robert G. Gromacki, in The Modern Tongues Movement (pp 5-10), documents the history of “speaking in tongues” in antiquity. Some of these ecstatic babbling were reported in the “Report of Wenamon” (about 1100 BC), Plato’s Dialogues (5th century BC), and Virgil’s Aeneid (1st century BC). The Graeco-Roman mystery religions before and after the Christian era most probably practiced these babbling utterances."

So this is what the apostle John was talking about in how the world speaks in their tongues for why we are to not only test the spirits but the tongues they bring too.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

So there is a pagan supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense, and then there is God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in their native tongues which the written law says for why we should not doubt what the real God's gift of tongues are for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that, will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

The problem here is that this tongue has been identified with the apostasy of believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues or evidence of tongues. As some tongue speakers do not believe that the holy laughter movement is of God, and yet they fail to see that is how they got that tongue by what they believe was the Holy Spirit falling on them apart from salvation as later in life as a saved believer. They failed to test the spirits by knowing He has been in us since salvation to know that was not the Holy Spirit falling on them again. And so they should not assume just because it comes with no interpretation, that it has to be for private use when it mimics the pagan tongues.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Ask yourself how can God call these pagans to repent from that kind of tongue and their spirits if He copy cats Satan in switching the mode of His gifts of tongues for private use?

How can the sinners know that they are not speaking that supernatural tongue by those spirits if the Holy Spirit supposedly does the same thing? They can't, for why God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use as anything like pagan tongues as found in the world.

Believers that have a hard time believing that tongue for private use is not of Him, should ask Jesus for help to prove that for them.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Those not involved in modern day tongues but see the error in the holy laughter movement, pray for modern day tongue speakers that they may discern pagan tongues from God's gift.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

True tongues comes while praising the Lord Jesus Christ.

If we ask for food, God will not give us stones and scorpions.

 

[Truther]

Yes, as the Lord enables me.

But one can hope that those tongue speakers that can see that the "holy laughter" movement and "slain in the spirit" as not of Him, and yet notice that they got tongues the same way of a spirit coming over them in bringing that tongue, for why it is not coming with interpretation and thus another trademark of confusion, they may shun that tongue for private use with His help, return to their first love, and pray normally again so when they get answers to prayers, they may give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers which is the will of God for us to do.

What is normal praying?

A rehearsed prayer?

 

[Truther]

That is correct. Had the KJV translators simply used the word "language" for glossa, the whole issue of tongues would have been moot.

Furthermore, Paul made it very clear that the gift of supernatural languages spoken miraculously would cease (along with prophecies and supernatural knowledge). Genuine prophecies ceased after the book of Revelation was completed c 96 AD. The Apostolic Fathers never claimed to be either apostles or prophets.

The modern tongues movement began in the early 20th century, when Pentecostalism also came into existence. This was followed by the Charismatic Movement. In both of them tongues and healing were promoted to the exclusion of other spiritual gifts.

But pagan babblings (ecstatic utterances) have existed for much longer, and go back to the Greeks and Romans, and possibly further back to the Babylonians.

The cessation of the gifts, including tongues, will be at the 2nd coming of Christ and during the beginning of His millennial reign on earth.

Then we will see Him face to face, no longer looking at all this vagueness through a 'welders mask".

 

[Truther]

This is what Paul says about any of the gifts ceasing:

1 Corinthians 13:8-13--Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.​

Paul says "when the perfect comes," but he doesn't say when that is specifically. To say this means when the canon of scripture is completed is such a reach as to be silly, IMO. Obviously, in heaven we won't need gifts like tongues or prophecy...or possibly when we live in the new heaven and earth. THEN, we will know fully even as we are fully known. But for now, while we live in this imperfect world, "we see as in a mirror dimly," so we need all of the spiritual gifts given by God and listed in His Word.

WADR, Enoch, I have see these gifts used scripturally in churches, and the body of Christ has benefitted.

'Perfect" to come is Christ to come per his earthly reign....



Chapter 1...

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

'Perfect" to come is Christ to come per his earthly reign....



Chapter 1...

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hi, Truther, I have heard this interpretation, and I believe that it could be correct. In any case, we seem to agree that the gifts are still needed and operating in the Church today.

 

[Truther]

Hi, Truther, I have heard this interpretation, and I believe that it could be correct. In any case, we seem to agree that the gifts are still needed and operating in the Church today.

Absolutely.

We are still in the "dark glass" mode of the church age.

The cessation of gifts without the presence of Christ on earth spells a dead, Spiritless church,....like many we see today.

No thanks.

 

[Enoch111]

The cessation of the gifts, including tongues, will be at the 2nd coming of Christ and during the beginning of His millennial reign on earth.

If that were true then Paul would have included all the spiritual gifts in his statement. The fact that he selected only three out of twenty shows that you are mistaken. That which is complete is the Holy Bible -- Scripture. The apostle John made it clear that nothing more can be added to the book of Revelation.

 

[Truther]

If that were true then Paul would have included all the spiritual gifts in his statement. The fact that he selected only three out of twenty shows that you are mistaken. That which is complete is the Holy Bible -- Scripture. The apostle John made it clear that nothing more can be added to the book of Revelation.

Paul figured you would figure that out.
He knew most folks would.

 

[Truther]

Sharing a couple of excerpts from this link:

The Pagan Origins of Modern “Speaking in Tongues”

"His story reminded me of the fact that unintelligible babbling known as “speaking in tongues” in the modern Pentecostal movement is widely practiced in cults and even in non-Christian and pagan religions."

Scriptural proof for that is Isaiah 8:19.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? KJV

So that means there was a supernatural tongue that was just babbling nonsense before God's gift of tongues came at Pentecost of other men's lips to speak unto the people in their native tongues.

More excerpts below from the link;

"Richard Ganz, in 20 Controversies that Almost Killed a Church (p 212) says that this kind of babbling is practiced by Mormons, The Way International, Hindus, Muslims and many others.

But this practice is not only a recent phenomenon, but was common in pagan worship long before Christ came. Robert G. Gromacki, in The Modern Tongues Movement (pp 5-10), documents the history of “speaking in tongues” in antiquity. Some of these ecstatic babbling were reported in the “Report of Wenamon” (about 1100 BC), Plato’s Dialogues (5th century BC), and Virgil’s Aeneid (1st century BC). The Graeco-Roman mystery religions before and after the Christian era most probably practiced these babbling utterances."

So this is what the apostle John was talking about in how the world speaks in their tongues for why we are to not only test the spirits but the tongues they bring too.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

So there is a pagan supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense, and then there is God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in their native tongues which the written law says for why we should not doubt what the real God's gift of tongues are for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that, will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

The problem here is that this tongue has been identified with the apostasy of believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues or evidence of tongues. As some tongue speakers do not believe that the holy laughter movement is of God, and yet they fail to see that is how they got that tongue by what they believe was the Holy Spirit falling on them apart from salvation as later in life as a saved believer. They failed to test the spirits by knowing He has been in us since salvation to know that was not the Holy Spirit falling on them again. And so they should not assume just because it comes with no interpretation, that it has to be for private use when it mimics the pagan tongues.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Ask yourself how can God call these pagans to repent from that kind of tongue and their spirits if He copy cats Satan in switching the mode of His gifts of tongues for private use?

How can the sinners know that they are not speaking that supernatural tongue by those spirits if the Holy Spirit supposedly does the same thing? They can't, for why God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use as anything like pagan tongues as found in the world.

Believers that have a hard time believing that tongue for private use is not of Him, should ask Jesus for help to prove that for them.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Those not involved in modern day tongues but see the error in the holy laughter movement, pray for modern day tongue speakers that they may discern pagan tongues from God's gift.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

Don't worry about the pagans, just let this happen....


11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing:....


Don't let the pagans take your crown, folks.

 

[bbyrd009]

God's gift of tongues is

Pagans' tongues is

more steps on that ladder imo; although i maybe need an interpreter

 

[Daciple]

So I would have to say that I am not one to judge whether or not the gift of tongues can still be prevalent today. What I am 100% sure of, is that this modern ideology as adhered to by such sects as Pentecostal of what is basically speaking nothing but gibberish is not the Scriptural understanding of what the Bible refers to as speaking in tongues. These videos and services of people packed to the brim all screaming out non sense is absolutely not what the Bible is speaking of when it speaks of tongues.

It seems to me that these people have very purposefully ignored the specific Scriptures concerning that nonsense. Lets just pretend for a moment that these people babbling nonsense is really the Scriptural Gift of Tongues, what exactly does the Word of God tell them about doing it en mass?

1 Cor 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

If the whole Church has come together and everyone is speaking in tongues, as some sects are known to do, then what does the Bible specifically say about them? That they look as tho they are mad to the unbelievers. Furthermore the Word of God tells us the ONLY reason for tongues is to CONVINCE the unbelievers.

1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The Word is also clear that praying in tongues is UNFRUITFUL, save to convince unbelievers:

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

There is literally zero reason for anyone ever to pray "in tongues" apart from the purpose to convince unbelievers of THE GOSPEL. What does that mean? What does that look like?

It means the POINT of tongues is for someone who lives in America and speaks only English, if he were to travel to say Africa, if he were to become filled with the Holy Spirit and then PREACH THE GOSPEL to those in Africa, that speak a different language, that he then would be given this gift and speak so that THE AFRICANS can hear THE GOSPEL in their language and understand it.

This babbling nonsense like fools edifies absolutely no one, not even the person babbling and definitely no one around them, and certainly not unbelievers that look upon you like you are mad.

And lastly even if this non sense babbling was somehow a legit gift of tongues, the Bible again is absolutely clear, it should NEVER happen unless there is someone to interpret it, other wise you are mumbling nonsense to the air:

1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I mean it is absolutely clear that never ever ever should there be dozens of people all babbling on like idiots all over the Church, it says no more than 3 and if there is no interpreter (which is 99.9% of the time today in any Church) then STAY SILENT, dont do it. However thousands of Churches today encourage their members to participate in this nonsense and some even go as far as trying to link this babbling to Salvation.

To each their own if you want to babel like a fool and think it somehow is beneficial to you, I wont judge you in your personal relationship with the Lord, however if you dare link this ideology to Salvation then you are now blaspheming the Gospel. The Gospel and Salvation has zero to do with babbling, it by Grace thru Faith in the Works of our Lord Jesus Christ plus nothing.

And lastly I truly think everyone that wants to babble on ought to listen to Paul here:

1 Cor 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Speak your 5 words in your own voice so that it can actually edify yourself and others than your 10,000 nonsense babbling words...

Gibberish (which is what the Modern Tongues is 99% of the time) isnt Biblical Speaking in Tongues, when you go to Africa and start speaking a Foreign Language to get the message of the Gospel out to those Lost there, let me know and I will 100% support you, until then follow Scripture and stay silent...

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sharing a couple of excerpts from this link:

The Pagan Origins of Modern “Speaking in Tongues”

"His story reminded me of the fact that unintelligible babbling known as “speaking in tongues” in the modern Pentecostal movement is widely practiced in cults and even in non-Christian and pagan religions."

Scriptural proof for that is Isaiah 8:19.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? KJV

So that means there was a supernatural tongue that was just babbling nonsense before God's gift of tongues came at Pentecost of other men's lips to speak unto the people in their native tongues.

More excerpts below from the link;

"Richard Ganz, in 20 Controversies that Almost Killed a Church (p 212) says that this kind of babbling is practiced by Mormons, The Way International, Hindus, Muslims and many others.

But this practice is not only a recent phenomenon, but was common in pagan worship long before Christ came. Robert G. Gromacki, in The Modern Tongues Movement (pp 5-10), documents the history of “speaking in tongues” in antiquity. Some of these ecstatic babbling were reported in the “Report of Wenamon” (about 1100 BC), Plato’s Dialogues (5th century BC), and Virgil’s Aeneid (1st century BC). The Graeco-Roman mystery religions before and after the Christian era most probably practiced these babbling utterances."

So this is what the apostle John was talking about in how the world speaks in their tongues for why we are to not only test the spirits but the tongues they bring too.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

So there is a pagan supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense, and then there is God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in their native tongues which the written law says for why we should not doubt what the real God's gift of tongues are for.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that, will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

The problem here is that this tongue has been identified with the apostasy of believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues or evidence of tongues. As some tongue speakers do not believe that the holy laughter movement is of God, and yet they fail to see that is how they got that tongue by what they believe was the Holy Spirit falling on them apart from salvation as later in life as a saved believer. They failed to test the spirits by knowing He has been in us since salvation to know that was not the Holy Spirit falling on them again. And so they should not assume just because it comes with no interpretation, that it has to be for private use when it mimics the pagan tongues.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Ask yourself how can God call these pagans to repent from that kind of tongue and their spirits if He copy cats Satan in switching the mode of His gifts of tongues for private use?

How can the sinners know that they are not speaking that supernatural tongue by those spirits if the Holy Spirit supposedly does the same thing? They can't, for why God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use as anything like pagan tongues as found in the world.

Believers that have a hard time believing that tongue for private use is not of Him, should ask Jesus for help to prove that for them.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Those not involved in modern day tongues but see the error in the holy laughter movement, pray for modern day tongue speakers that they may discern pagan tongues from God's gift.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

Cobbling together some random verses out of context, and ignoring 1 Corinthians 14:2 among other significant verses in the chapter is a somewhat deceptive way of making a point about the way current believers pray in tongues.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Satan always counterfeits the real thing so fools will scoff at the real thing and not be benefited. Besides Christian 'speaking in tongues' are languages created by God, not chirping and muttering. Just because we don't understand the language doesn't mean that God doesn't. I don't understand Chinese, but the Chinese can.

Hey! Here we are. I am Oscarr from C.F.!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Fortunately Luke had written about it in the Book of Acts for us to know that God's gift of tongues is a foreign language to speak to people as it had occurred on Pentecost when the disciples were officially saved & the church of believers began.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

How does this explain 1 Corinthians 14:2 where Paul said that the person who speaks in tongues speaks to God because no man is able to understand him? And further on in the chapter, Paul advises that if a person wants to pray in tongues without it being interpreted he should pray privately to himself and to God. So, in many churches where tongues is not spoken out loud, you wouldn't know who prays in tongues or not, because those who do follow Paul's teaching and limit their praying in tongues to their private prayer room where they can pray in secret to God. I am Pentecostal in my theology, but I would never pray out loud in tongues during a church service because I would be going against Paul's teaching.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That is correct. Had the KJV translators simply used the word "language" for glossa, the whole issue of tongues would have been moot.

Furthermore, Paul made it very clear that the gift of supernatural languages spoken miraculously would cease (along with prophecies and supernatural knowledge). Genuine prophecies ceased after the book of Revelation was completed c 96 AD. The Apostolic Fathers never claimed to be either apostles or prophets.

The modern tongues movement began in the early 20th century, when Pentecostalism also came into existence. This was followed by the Charismatic Movement. In both of them tongues and healing were promoted to the exclusion of other spiritual gifts.

But pagan babblings (ecstatic utterances) have existed for much longer, and go back to the Greeks and Romans, and possibly further back to the Babylonians.

How would you explain the 17th Century Scottish Covenanters who prophesied and their prophecies came to pass? During the time when the plague was ravaging Britain, John Welsh prophesied that although the plague would be all around a certain city, it would never enter there, and it never did.

And where does it say anywhere in the New Testament that the spiritual gifts including tongues and prophecy were limited to the lives of the Apostles? Just because some mad monk said it during the Middle Ages, doesn't make it true.

Furthermore, it is an historical fact that tongues and prophecy continued in the Eastern Orthodox church right through to the 12th Century A.D.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I thank you for sharing but there are a few contentions in your post. You try to explain how each & every man heard them in their own language as if say the Medes heard them all speak to them in Medes, and another all speak Parthians to them in Parthians at the same time, but that can't be so, because they listed other languages to know how they were speaking in other languages rather than just their own language. Otherwise, they would not have known they were speaking in other languages too.

Acts 2: 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

They went on to acknowledge that they know that these Galileans spoke their own language and were mystified how they were speaking all those other languages too. So they were not just hearing one language at a time by only their respective group, but various languages as spoken by the new born again disciples.

Acts 2: 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So when you acknowledged why some did not understand what they were saying, that undermined how you applied His words to mean because then, they would have all heard it too in their native tongue. It was because some doubted in an atmosphere where they were hearing the disciples speak all those languages in their native tongue to those devout Jews from all nations was why some jested that they were drunk.

Anyway, it is an actual foreign language of men speaking to the foreign Jews in their respective native tongue of the wonderful works of God.

God's gift of tongues is not going to sound like gibberish to one person and yet an actual foreign language to another. No one should be guessing to interpret any tongue by feeling the tone or gist of what is being said by that babbling tongue. It will not sound gibberish to one Parthian and then hear it in their native tongue by another Parthian. 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 testify that even as a sign to unbelievers, not all will believe in Him.

Unless I misunderstood you in how you were applying it, that is the contention as I see it for why it cannot be.

God would call those sinners away from that kind of tongues that are gibberish nonsense and those spirits that bring it, to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father thru the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. That is why no invitations points to the Spirit, but still pointing to the Son even afterwards in coming to God the Father for anything in fellowship, prayer, and worship.

I just wonder if you have ever been around Mandarin or Hindi speakers. They all sound like gibberish to those who don't understand the language. Also there is a race of Pygmies in Africa whose language is just a collection of clicks and grunts. And I had a close friend who is Latvian, and being among their family is like being at the tower of Babel.

I have a friend whose tongue language is very limited and sounds like gibberish, yet in a prayer meeting he spoke a clear Ghanaian village dialect which was understood as the praises of God by the Ghanaian visitor who was there with him. This was witnessed by 20 people in my very own church in the late 1970s. That evidence will stand up in any Court of the land.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Actually he did. In the context of those three gifts, there is only one reasonable explanation -- the completion of Scripture. And had the KJV translators used the word "complete" (which is totally legitimate) we would not even be having this discussion. Also, he mentioned only three gifts (out of about 20), which is further proof that it is Scripture.

New International Version
but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
International Standard Version
But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will be done away with.
New Heart English Bible
but when that which is complete has come, that which is partial will be done away with.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used.
World English Bible
but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with.

People try to apply this to Christ or meeting with Christ, which would be absurd. If all the gifts has been mentioned that could have been a possiblity. But not is this context.

Forming a significant doctrine on half an obscure verse is bad hermaneutics.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It seems we do. The author had written the book having done research in modern times after Joseph Smith had died. Even though Joseph Smith acknowledged that there were Mormons doing fake tongues, and gave instructions not to do that, somehow today, that researcher came across some Mormons doing otherwise. So you may not be among them, but I find it odd that the Mormon churches that do are not making it a point to go after other Mormon churches that don't do tongues the right way.

Then you have to wonder if any of them actually has God's gift of tongues today if they claim they got it by receiving what they believed was the Holy Spirit falling over them apart from salvation in bringing that tongue.

A church thought they had God's gift of tongues until they had hired a linguist to record and translate it only to find it was all gibberish nonsense. the clue as to what may have happened in that church that had actually believed they were interpreting tongues goes to another source where Joyce Meyers testified that she interprets tongues by getting the feel or gist of what was being said. That explains how those believers actually believed they were interpreting tongues as they were winging it as Joyce Meyers was.

And Joyce Meyers got tongues later on in life as a saved believer and she took it as a sign that God was calling her into the ministry.

Whereas my former neighbor across the street took it as a sign that was when she was saved.

So, no. Mormon Churches are not exempt from the responsibility of making sure Mormons are using tongues the right way and even to discern how they got that tongue the wrong way for why they see some using "fake tongues" or as Joseph Smith pointed out "the devil's tongue".

That author shows that something is off within the Morrnon churches in these latter days so although a general reference to Mormons does not mean they are all doing it just as a general reference to Hindu does not mean they are all doing it, but it is happening and all Mormons need to be on their toes when Visiting Mormons come to their church that are not doing tongues right... let alone how they got that tongue for why it is not God's gift of tongues. We are to test the spirits and the tongues they bring per the apostle John's warning in 1 John 4:1-6

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This can happen to any believer at any time for why the warning is for Mormons & Catholics & Christians. Even you and me.

As soon as someone speaks in tongues for the purpose of having a linguist analyse it, it immediately reverts to the flesh, because the Holy Spirit withdraws His inspiration, because the gift is being misused by not using it for the purpose in which it was given. So the linguist comment is just a throw-away scraping of the bottom of the barrel through an ignorance of how the Holy Spirit works and what the spiritual gifts are for.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If that were true then Paul would have included all the spiritual gifts in his statement. The fact that he selected only three out of twenty shows that you are mistaken. That which is complete is the Holy Bible -- Scripture. The apostle John made it clear that nothing more can be added to the book of Revelation.

The same principle applies when the implication: "temporary until the last Apostle dies", is added to Paul's teaching on the gifts.