Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[Paul Christensen]

So I would have to say that I am not one to judge whether or not the gift of tongues can still be prevalent today. What I am 100% sure of, is that this modern ideology as adhered to by such sects as Pentecostal of what is basically speaking nothing but gibberish is not the Scriptural understanding of what the Bible refers to as speaking in tongues. These videos and services of people packed to the brim all screaming out non sense is absolutely not what the Bible is speaking of when it speaks of tongues.

It seems to me that these people have very purposefully ignored the specific Scriptures concerning that nonsense. Lets just pretend for a moment that these people babbling nonsense is really the Scriptural Gift of Tongues, what exactly does the Word of God tell them about doing it en mass?

1 Cor 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

If the whole Church has come together and everyone is speaking in tongues, as some sects are known to do, then what does the Bible specifically say about them? That they look as tho they are mad to the unbelievers. Furthermore the Word of God tells us the ONLY reason for tongues is to CONVINCE the unbelievers.

1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

The Word is also clear that praying in tongues is UNFRUITFUL, save to convince unbelievers:

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

There is literally zero reason for anyone ever to pray "in tongues" apart from the purpose to convince unbelievers of THE GOSPEL. What does that mean? What does that look like?

It means the POINT of tongues is for someone who lives in America and speaks only English, if he were to travel to say Africa, if he were to become filled with the Holy Spirit and then PREACH THE GOSPEL to those in Africa, that speak a different language, that he then would be given this gift and speak so that THE AFRICANS can hear THE GOSPEL in their language and understand it.

This babbling nonsense like fools edifies absolutely no one, not even the person babbling and definitely no one around them, and certainly not unbelievers that look upon you like you are mad.

And lastly even if this non sense babbling was somehow a legit gift of tongues, the Bible again is absolutely clear, it should NEVER happen unless there is someone to interpret it, other wise you are mumbling nonsense to the air:

1 Cor 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

I mean it is absolutely clear that never ever ever should there be dozens of people all babbling on like idiots all over the Church, it says no more than 3 and if there is no interpreter (which is 99.9% of the time today in any Church) then STAY SILENT, dont do it. However thousands of Churches today encourage their members to participate in this nonsense and some even go as far as trying to link this babbling to Salvation.

To each their own if you want to babel like a fool and think it somehow is beneficial to you, I wont judge you in your personal relationship with the Lord, however if you dare link this ideology to Salvation then you are now blaspheming the Gospel. The Gospel and Salvation has zero to do with babbling, it by Grace thru Faith in the Works of our Lord Jesus Christ plus nothing.

And lastly I truly think everyone that wants to babble on ought to listen to Paul here:

1 Cor 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Speak your 5 words in your own voice so that it can actually edify yourself and others than your 10,000 nonsense babbling words...

Gibberish (which is what the Modern Tongues is 99% of the time) isnt Biblical Speaking in Tongues, when you go to Africa and start speaking a Foreign Language to get the message of the Gospel out to those Lost there, let me know and I will 100% support you, until then follow Scripture and stay silent...

The many testimonies of people speaking in tongues in Pentecostal churches and the language being understood by native speakers of the language disproves your theory.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hey! Here we are. I am Oscarr from C.F.!

Yes, I know. I recognized your name. Welcome!

 

[Enow]

Don't worry about the pagans, just let this happen....


11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing:....


Don't let the pagans take your crown, folks.

More like...God's gift of tongues is another foreign language to speak unto the people; stammering or not, it is understood as a foreign language.

Gibberish nonsense has been going on before Pentecost across idols, religions, and the occult ( Isaiah 8:19 ), and I suspect be one of the signs that the One World Church will unite everyone by too in the coming great tribulation. That is why you are to prove all things including tongues the way the world speaks in 1 John 4:1-6

And believers do not get a crown for speaking in the real God's gift of tongues, but they can be denied by Him and be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation for speaking the utter depths of Satan for what they speak. See verse 24 in Revelation 2:18-25 at the link.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:18-25 - King James Version

 

[Enow]

The Word is also clear that praying in tongues is UNFRUITFUL, save to convince unbelievers:

1 Cor 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

There is literally zero reason for anyone ever to pray "in tongues" apart from the purpose to convince unbelievers of THE GOSPEL. What does that mean? What does that look like?

Thank you for sharing, brother.

Paul is meaning that when he speaks in tongues, he is praying that "he" meaning the Holy Spirit, may interpret that tongue through another believer in the assembly. It is his spirit that is praying for the Lord Jesus Christ to interpret that tongue thru the Holy Spirit in another while he, the Holy Spirit, is manifesting tongues through himself, Paul. This is Paul exhorting other believers that speaks in tongues to pray that He may interpret that tongue through another otherwise as Paul stated, it is unfruitful to himself until someone interprets it so he understands it & thus be fruitful to himself.

This is another point of truth for why he was exhorting believers that if they seek a spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and began to show why by comparing the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy because the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift when it needs interpretation for the benefit of the one speaking in tongues.

 

[Enow]

Cobbling together some random verses out of context, and ignoring 1 Corinthians 14:2 among other significant verses in the chapter is a somewhat deceptive way of making a point about the way current believers pray in tongues.

Try explaining verse 2 with verse 28 in context for the meaning of how a person speaks unto God when verse 28 has the person made silence in church when there is no interpreter as someone that not just speaks unto God, but speaks unto himself?

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

The answer is ( and only He can confirm this with you ) when you have a practice of having 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret in the assembly, a foreigner may stand up and speak out of turn, meaning he knows what he is saying as he speaks to himself as God does too as he speaks to God. It is not saying he is speaking to himself and to God, but what he is saying is understood by himself & God.

That is how you are to apply verse 2 in how the believer with the gift of tongue speaks to God, not that he is speaking TO God for there are no mysteries TO God, but that God understand what he is saying as manifested by the Holy Spirit in another foreign language alien to the tongue speaker fr why it is in the spirit, it is mysteries to himself.

This is why is Paul exhorting believers that if they seek a spiritual gift, they are to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts & then begins to compare the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy to illustrate that the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift for why they should seek the gift of prophesy.

You cannot have people speaking in tongues "quietly" while they are having 2 or 3 speak in tongues at a time while another interpret in a room full of noise. People beside those quietly speaking in tongues cannot hear what is being said in the order set in the assembly. Silence mean silence.

So the guy being made silence is just a foreigner speaking out of turn for why he is being made silence when there is no interpretation because he is a foreigner speaking his known language.

 

[Enow]

As soon as someone speaks in tongues for the purpose of having a linguist analyse it, it immediately reverts to the flesh, because the Holy Spirit withdraws His inspiration, because the gift is being misused by not using it for the purpose in which it was given. So the linguist comment is just a throw-away scraping of the bottom of the barrel through an ignorance of how the Holy Spirit works and what the spiritual gifts are for.

This recording was done while in a church that believed they were speaking with God's gift of tongues. The fact that Joyce Meyers explains how she interprets tongues is by getting the feel or the gist of what is being spoken is no wonder how that other church interpreted tongues; they were winging it and believed they were actually interpreting that tongue when it was just gibberish nonsense no matter how they "interpret", that glorifies God.

So if any of your stories relate to believers feeling what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming over them later in life as a saved believer apart from salvation in bringing that tongue, you better start testing those spirits and discerning those tongues then, because that spirit is not of Him and that tongue cannot be either but just gibberish nonsense.

 

[Truther]

More like...God's gift of tongues is another foreign language to speak unto the people; stammering or not, it is understood as a foreign language.

Gibberish nonsense has been going on before Pentecost across idols, religions, and the occult ( Isaiah 8:19 ), and I suspect be one of the signs that the One World Church will unite everyone by too in the coming great tribulation. That is why you are to prove all things including tongues the way the world speaks in 1 John 4:1-6

And believers do not get a crown for speaking in the real God's gift of tongues, but they can be denied by Him and be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation for speaking the utter depths of Satan for what they speak. See verse 24 in Revelation 2:18-25 at the link.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 2:18-25 - King James Version

I see.
Every counterfeit debunks the genuine?

Bad doctrine to chase

 

[Enow]

I see.
Every counterfeit debunks the genuine?

Bad doctrine to chase

Does God copy cat Satan's tongue?

No. It is like this; don't call something that was evil before Pentecost, good and to be accepted along with the real God's gift of tongues that is a foreign language to speak unto the people which will come with interpretation in the assembly.

Otherwise it would be confusion which God is not the author of for why we are to test the spirits and the tongues they bring, especially when already saved believers later on in life seek to or experienced a spirit coming over them bringing that gibberish nonsense for why there is no interpretation because that spirit & that tongue is not of Him at all.

 

[Paul Christensen]

This recording was done while in a church that believed they were speaking with God's gift of tongues. The fact that Joyce Meyers explains how she interprets tongues is by getting the feel or the gist of what is being spoken is no wonder how that other church interpreted tongues; they were winging it and believed they were actually interpreting that tongue when it was just gibberish nonsense no matter how they "interpret", that glorifies God.

So if any of your stories relate to believers feeling what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming over them later in life as a saved believer apart from salvation in bringing that tongue, you better start testing those spirits and discerning those tongues then, because that spirit is not of Him and that tongue cannot be either but just gibberish nonsense.

I have tested my gift according to 1 Corinthians 14, and I clearly use it in conjunction to what Paul clearly taught about it. I tested it according to all of the chapter, and not selected verses and ignoring others. Because God is the only listener to me when I pray in tongues, He is my only judge of what I speak. That puts me way out of range of anyone who thinks they can criticise me for using the gift or to say that what I do is false.

I don't care about how others practice the gift. I have been a member of a Pentecostal church for 12 years, and been closely associated for the following 40 years, and have seen it all - the good, bad, and ugly. I have witnessed the misuse of tongues and prophecy and intolerance of other denominations. But I also have been a member of Anglican, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches as well and seen how others worship God and express their faith. My basic theology is Reformed Puritan Calvinist with a modicum of continuance attached to it.

So I don't care how people decide to worship God. They can stand on their heads and whistle "Jingle Bells" for all I care, as long as they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that He rose from the dead to give us eternal life,and know that they are saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ, not of themselves, but the gift of God to them, not of works lest any should boast.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Try explaining verse 2 with verse 28 in context for the meaning of how a person speaks unto God when verse 28 has the person made silence in church when there is no interpreter as someone that not just speaks unto God, but speaks unto himself?

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

The answer is ( and only He can confirm this with you ) when you have a practice of having 2 or 3 speak in tongues and another interpret in the assembly, a foreigner may stand up and speak out of turn, meaning he knows what he is saying as he speaks to himself as God does too as he speaks to God. It is not saying he is speaking to himself and to God, but what he is saying is understood by himself & God.

That is how you are to apply verse 2 in how the believer with the gift of tongue speaks to God, not that he is speaking TO God for there are no mysteries TO God, but that God understand what he is saying as manifested by the Holy Spirit in another foreign language alien to the tongue speaker fr why it is in the spirit, it is mysteries to himself.

This is why is Paul exhorting believers that if they seek a spiritual gift, they are to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts & then begins to compare the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy to illustrate that the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift for why they should seek the gift of prophesy.

You cannot have people speaking in tongues "quietly" while they are having 2 or 3 speak in tongues at a time while another interpret in a room full of noise. People beside those quietly speaking in tongues cannot hear what is being said in the order set in the assembly. Silence mean silence.

So the guy being made silence is just a foreigner speaking out of turn for why he is being made silence when there is no interpretation because he is a foreigner speaking his known language.

By ignoring some verses in 1 Corinthians 14, you are saying that using the gift of tongues should be limited to public church meetings and accompanied by interpretation so that it can be edifying to the listeners. What you are talking about is the ministry gift of tongues that only believers selected by the Holy Spirit are able to use.

But Paul also advocates praying in tongues in private. He says that when someone prays in tongues they are 'giving thanks well'. Perhaps you missed seeing that verse. So if you are saying that speaking in tongues is false and Paul is saying that it is giving thanks well, then who is correct, you or Paul?

When Paul says that he speaks in tongues more than them all, where does he do that? It seems illogical that he would be doing that in church meetings. Anyone with common sense would know that he spent much of his private prayer time praying in tongues to the only person who can understand what he is saying - God.

In verse 2, Paul says that a person speaking in tongues is speaking to God. Where would one do that? No in public because no one would be able to understand him. No. He would be speaking to God in private prayer - where else? Where do you do all your praying - in public or in private? When you pray in public are you talking to God or are you merely lecturing to the others in the form of prayer (which many do who want to preach but are not given the opportunity, so they "preach" in the form of public prayer).

So it is quite clear to me that people who speak loudly in tongues in public meetings, without interpretation, are violating Paul's direct instructions about it, and therefore are in the flesh and not the Spirit. A person cannot be in the Spirit if he is disobeying Scripture. But if a person speaks out in tongues expecting interpretation, then he is consistent with Scripture and is therefore in the Spirit. And when he prays in tongues in private to God, then he is in the Spirit because he, again, is compliant with Scripture.

But a person who says that the gifts of the Spirit ceased at the death of the last Apostle, or on the completion of the Biblical canon, is in the flesh and not the Spirit because there are no Scriptures to support his assertion.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes, I know. I recognized your name. Welcome!

 

[Enow]

I have tested my gift according to 1 Corinthians 14, and I clearly use it in conjunction to what Paul clearly taught about it. I tested it according to all of the chapter, and not selected verses and ignoring others. Because God is the only listener to me when I pray in tongues, He is my only judge of what I speak. That puts me way out of range of anyone who thinks they can criticise me for using the gift or to say that what I do is false.

Not really. There are scripture that reproves using God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in turning it around to use as a prayer language.

John 16:13 in all Bible versions testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for uttering His own intercessions. The KJV is one of the few versions that has Romans 8:26-27 lining up with the truth of His words in John 16:13 in that not even His groanings can be uttered. Romans 8:27 is about Jesus as being the "he" that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 as this is the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit for how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's are known to the Father because Jesus gives His silent intercessions to the Father. This is in according to the will of God because Jesus is the only Mediator between God and men as only Jesus can give any intercessions to the Father. This is so because when the father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers John 14:13-14

Now tongue speakers are changing their testimony that it is their spirit praying and not the Holy Spirit. Just side stepping the obvious that God's gift of tongues is a foreign language unknown to the tongue speaker to speak unto the people; not for praying back to God. It is either God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people or it is not.

God wants us to pray and even silently, knowing what we had prayed for so we can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

Anything else is circumspect and cannot be of Him at all other than serving as a snare of the devil to prevent you from praying normally as He would have you to do in according to His will.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you...... 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

So would God call you to pray like the heathens do in their supernatural tongues as they have been before Pentecost? Or would God call those sinners out from their prayer tongue to pray normally so that Christians KNOW they have repented of that tongue and the spirits they serve and the sinners would know they have been delivered from those spirits and the tongues that serves them?

I don't care about how others practice the gift. I have been a member of a Pentecostal church for 12 years, and been closely associated for the following 40 years, and have seen it all - the good, bad, and ugly. I have witnessed the misuse of tongues and prophecy and intolerance of other denominations. But I also have been a member of Anglican, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches as well and seen how others worship God and express their faith. My basic theology is Reformed Puritan Calvinist with a modicum of continuance attached to it.

So I don't care how people decide to worship God. They can stand on their heads and whistle "Jingle Bells" for all I care, as long as they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that He rose from the dead to give us eternal life,and know that they are saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ, not of themselves, but the gift of God to them, not of works lest any should boast.

Not sure how that can come across as loving one another nor as caring for the body of Christ.

The apostle John raised the standard of judgment for the church to follow in 1 John 4:1-6 in testing the spirits and the tongue they bring. If they testify to the spirit being felt in the worship place or even as coming over someone that has been a saved believer for quite some time, then that spirit bringing that tongue that is not coming with interpretation because it is the world's supernatural tongue for why that is NOT the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has been in you since your salvation when you first believed at the calling of the gospel. That spirit that came over you later on in life as a saved believer, that was not the Holy Spirit when He has been in you since you had been saved. I know I have not read that from you in this thread, but you give all the markers of being of that camp's experiences that believed tongues can be used as a prayer language.

What for when the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer per Matthew 6:7-8? And why mimic or even sound like the heathens do in their nonsense praying tongue? How is that a light unto the world when believers pray like they do, thus making Christians look like they converted to paganism or the occult or at the very least, made compromises.

I leave you in God's hands whether or not you want to make sure you are squared away with Him for praying like that when scriptures says no.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Not really. There are scripture that reproves using God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in turning it around to use as a prayer language.

John 16:13 in all Bible versions testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for uttering His own intercessions. The KJV is one of the few versions that has Romans 8:26-27 lining up with the truth of His words in John 16:13 in that not even His groanings can be uttered. Romans 8:27 is about Jesus as being the "he" that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 as this is the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit for how the silent intercessions of the Spirit's are known to the Father because Jesus gives His silent intercessions to the Father. This is in according to the will of God because Jesus is the only Mediator between God and men as only Jesus can give any intercessions to the Father. This is so because when the father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers John 14:13-14

Now tongue speakers are changing their testimony that it is their spirit praying and not the Holy Spirit. Just side stepping the obvious that God's gift of tongues is a foreign language unknown to the tongue speaker to speak unto the people; not for praying back to God. It is either God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people or it is not.

God wants us to pray and even silently, knowing what we had prayed for so we can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

Anything else is circumspect and cannot be of Him at all other than serving as a snare of the devil to prevent you from praying normally as He would have you to do in according to His will.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you...... 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

So would God call you to pray like the heathens do in their supernatural tongues as they have been before Pentecost? Or would God call those sinners out from their prayer tongue to pray normally so that Christians KNOW they have repented of that tongue and the spirits they serve and the sinners would know they have been delivered from those spirits and the tongues that serves them?



Not sure how that can come across as loving one another nor as caring for the body of Christ.

The apostle John raised the standard of judgment for the church to follow in 1 John 4:1-6 in testing the spirits and the tongue they bring. If they testify to the spirit being felt in the worship place or even as coming over someone that has been a saved believer for quite some time, then that spirit bringing that tongue that is not coming with interpretation because it is the world's supernatural tongue for why that is NOT the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit has been in you since your salvation when you first believed at the calling of the gospel. That spirit that came over you later on in life as a saved believer, that was not the Holy Spirit when He has been in you since you had been saved. I know I have not read that from you in this thread, but you give all the markers of being of that camp's experiences that believed tongues can be used as a prayer language.

What for when the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer per Matthew 6:7-8? And why mimic or even sound like the heathens do in their nonsense praying tongue? How is that a light unto the world when believers pray like they do, thus making Christians look like they converted to paganism or the occult or at the very least, made compromises.

I leave you in God's hands whether or not you want to make sure you are squared away with Him for praying like that when scriptures says no.

Just like my daughter, who was studying psychology, told me, "If someone has had stuff drummed into them all during their formative years, it is very difficult, almost impossible to convince them otherwise". I think she is right about religious people who have had Cessationist doctrine drummed into them since they first became Christians. Cessationism is so much part of the fabric of their religious foundation, that they will never be convinced otherwise, even when the Scripture is quite clear about it.

 

[Enow]

By ignoring some verses in 1 Corinthians 14, you are saying that using the gift of tongues should be limited to public church meetings and accompanied by interpretation so that it can be edifying to the listeners. What you are talking about is the ministry gift of tongues that only believers selected by the Holy Spirit are able to use.

Chapter 14 is only about tongues' use in the assembly for why the gift of prophesy should be the gift to seek after, because tongues is not a stand alone gift.

But Paul also advocates praying in tongues in private. He says that when someone prays in tongues they are 'giving thanks well'. Perhaps you missed seeing that verse. So if you are saying that speaking in tongues is false and Paul is saying that it is giving thanks well, then who is correct, you or Paul?

Paul was giving an example why tongues is to be interpreted in the assembly in context of why prophesy is better than tongues in chapter 14.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

When Paul says that he speaks in tongues more than them all, where does he do that? It seems illogical that he would be doing that in church meetings. Anyone with common sense would know that he spent much of his private prayer time praying in tongues to the only person who can understand what he is saying - God.

Paul cannot speak for himself if it was done in private. Paul follows this rule for witnessesing.

2 Corinthians 13:1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

That means what he has told them is because he can for he did it in their presence as also that tongue was interpreted by another so he could understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself as the tongue speaker..

In verse 2, Paul says that a person speaking in tongues is speaking to God. Where would one do that? No in public because no one would be able to understand him. No. He would be speaking to God in private prayer - where else? Where do you do all your praying - in public or in private? When you pray in public are you talking to God or are you merely lecturing to the others in the form of prayer (which many do who want to preach but are not given the opportunity, so they "preach" in the form of public prayer).

If you apply verse 2 to mean He is speaking TO God, then you have to apply verse 28 as someone speaking to himself and to God in that way too. Does that make him look "mad" in verse 28 for speaking to himself? Of course, it does. If the whole assembly spoke like that, & be deemed mad by someone coming into the assembly, how can a lone person escape that assessment?

So it is quite clear to me that people who speak loudly in tongues in public meetings, without interpretation, are violating Paul's direct instructions about it, and therefore are in the flesh and not the Spirit. A person cannot be in the Spirit if he is disobeying Scripture. But if a person speaks out in tongues expecting interpretation, then he is consistent with Scripture and is therefore in the Spirit.

Since the interpretation is to come from another and not from the same person speaking in tongues, it doesn't matter if that tongue was manifested by the Holy Spirit to lead that person to speak because the Holy Spirit will interpret thru another. So the question remains for verse 28 in how those that speak are made silence when there is no interpretation and Paul signify8ing him as someone that speaks to himself and to God.

That is why I believe that is the way Paul spoke in those days in pointing out that when someone speaks and there is no interpretation, that is just a foreigner speaking out of turn for why he is made silence as he is speaking unto himself & unto God meaning he knows what he is saying as God does too; not that he is actually speaking to himself and to God that way.

And so that is how I apply verse 2 to mean that he is not speaking TO God since there are no mysteries to Him but that the person does not understand what is being said but God does in having that gift of tongue for why prophesy is better than tongue because tongue is a stand alone gift.

And when he prays in tongues in private to God, then he is in the Spirit because he, again, is compliant with Scripture.

No, it is not when he admits he prays so that another may interpret that tongue so he may understand it and be fruitful to himself.

But a person who says that the gifts of the Spirit ceased at the death of the last Apostle, or on the completion of the Biblical canon, is in the flesh and not the Spirit because there are no Scriptures to support his assertion.

The point of tongues with interpretation is to our edification and so believers should seek that gift of prophesy for our edification. If you have the written word in the KJV at your church, then there will be no edification by prophesy that cannot be found in scripture. In that sense, it is complete.

When someone prophesy something running against scripture or speak in tongues and supposedly interpret but yet running against scripture, then it is reproved by scripture and whatever that spirit is doing, be it a deception of man or a lying spirit, it needs to be exposed and rebuked or else that person will just continue spreading lies in leading others astray in the assembly.

And the assembly should pray normally for guidance in how to abide in His words and not in the sensationalism of what they think tongues are for. How can anyone not be exalted in the eyes of others for having a special tongue not for the edification of others in the assembly?

 

[Enoch111]

But Paul also advocates praying in tongues in private.

No Paul advocates no such thing. Quite the opposite. Paul told the Corinthians that if they spoke in tongues, it would have to be for the edification of the church, therefore interpretation was essential. And it would be limited to two or three speakers within the assembly. It is quite amazing how Paul's teaching on tongues has been turned on its head.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No Paul advocates no such thing. Quite the opposite. Paul told the Corinthians that if they spoke in tongues, it would have to be for the edification of the church, therefore interpretation was essential. And it would be limited to two or three speakers within the assembly. It is quite amazing how Paul's teaching on tongues has been turned on its head.

You are just reading into Paul's statements according to what you personally believe, the same way I am. So you can't really say that you are right and I am not.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No Paul advocates no such thing. Quite the opposite. Paul told the Corinthians that if they spoke in tongues, it would have to be for the edification of the church, therefore interpretation was essential. And it would be limited to two or three speakers within the assembly. It is quite amazing how Paul's teaching on tongues has been turned on its head.

It's all to do with basic English comprehension which I taught to 9 and 10 year olds in elementary school.

Paul says that he speaks in tongues more than them all BUT IN THE CHURCH he would rather that people prophesy. Using 10 year old comprehension, we see clearly that Paul is making a clear distinction between speaking in tongues away from the church, and speaking in tongues in church. It amazes me that you are totally ignoring basic English comprehension to promulgate your view!

 

[Enow]

You are just reading into Paul's statements according to what you personally believe, the same way I am. So you can't really say that you are right and I am not.

When you are not proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil, I am not sure you can apply those verses to your walk if you pray as the heathens do in supernatural tongues.

Ask Him how can heathen that pray in supernatural tongue repent from those spirits and that kind of tongue KNOW that they have departed from those spirits and repented of that kind of tongue if they find that same kind of tongue in Christianity?

And how can your church know if they have departed from those spirits and repented from that kind of tongue if they sound the same as they were as heathens?

So no. God's real gift of tongues is a foreign language that the believer does not know but manifested by the Holy Ghost to speak unto the people. It will not be like the supernatural tongue found in the world that is not a foreign language but gibberish nonsense; so test the spirits & the tongues please.

 

[Truther]

Does God copy cat Satan's tongue?

No. It is like this; don't call something that was evil before Pentecost, good and to be accepted along with the real God's gift of tongues that is a foreign language to speak unto the people which will come with interpretation in the assembly.

Otherwise it would be confusion which God is not the author of for why we are to test the spirits and the tongues they bring, especially when already saved believers later on in life seek to or experienced a spirit coming over them bringing that gibberish nonsense for why there is no interpretation because that spirit & that tongue is not of Him at all.

God is the original....

.....with stammering lips and another tongue will I speak to this people....

You say, No!

You let the counterfeit debunk the original, when you should let the original debunk the counterfeit.

You interpret life backwards.

Fix it.

 

[Enow]

God is the original....

.....with stammering lips and another tongue will I speak to this people....

You say, No!

For how you are applying it to mean gibberish nonsense, that is a no. You can't apply that to mean that when God is speaking unto the people in their native tongue thru a person that knows not that tongue, hence stammering lips. Otherwise the way you apply it to mean, then how can He speak to "this" people? So no. The best example of God's gift of tongues was Pentecost when the devout Jews from all nations was hearing the Galileans speak in their native tongue the wonderful works of God.

You let the counterfeit debunk the original, when you should let the original debunk the counterfeit.

You interpret life backwards.

Fix it.

It is not backwards when there has been a supernatural tongue in the world before Pentecost that was just gibberish nonsense, and not a foreign language at all in speaking to any foreign people that they would understand as their native tongue, because no one understood it.

Idolaters have it, religions of the world has it, the occult has that supernatural tongue that is just gibberish nonsense before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people the Good News.

So that tongue of gibberish nonsense that has been in the world before Pentecost is not of Him since God would call those sinners away from that kind of tongue and those spirits they serve to a personal reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

So that which is of evil in the world before Pentecost cannot be considered an alternative form of God's gift of tongues when we are to test the spirits ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) & the tongues they bring ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) and prove all things to abstain from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

So you ask Him to help you fix it because God's gift of tongues is not for private use and it is a foreign language to speak to the people and will never be identify with that supernatural tongue as found in the world as gibberish nonsense or else you cannot claim verse 22 in abstaining from all appearances of evil. To call that which was evil before Pentecost and say it is good and another use of God's gift of tongues for private use is going to bring woe on those erring believers.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!