Pagan Tongues VS God's Real Gift of Tongues

[CharismaticLady]

I checked ! Boy, was I ever surprised to find out that not one single person on this forum was present at Pentecost, to know WHAT "tongues" is supposed to sound like.

You don't have to have been. Pentecost was the early rain. We are in the latter rain not that long ago.

BTW, don't you speak in tongues? I see you attend a Vineyard Church.

 

[Enow]

Anybody can read Acts 2 nd chapter to know how God's gift of tongues was used that day on Pentecost, and it wasn't gibberish nonsense but a foreign language understood by devout foreign Jews visiting Jerusalem that day.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Anybody can read Acts 2 nd chapter to know how God's gift of tongues was used that day on Pentecost, and it wasn't gibberish nonsense but a foreign language understood by devout foreign Jews visiting Jerusalem that day.

Enow, you are contradicting scripture. You say the tongues were understood by the devout Jews, but tongues are not understood naturally by any man. 1 Corinthians 14:2 You just refuse to let scripture interpret scripture. That is a huge error in hermeneutics.

 

[Enow]

Enow, you are contradicting scripture. You say the tongues were understood by the devout Jews, but tongues are not understood naturally by any man.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Scripture testifies that the devout Jews understood what His disciples were speaking in tongues about because it was done in their native language.

1 Corinthians 14:2 You just refuse to let scripture interpret scripture. That is a huge error in hermeneutics.

Not really. Tongue speakers always take verse 2 out of context for why Paul was saying that. From verse 1, Paul is addressing beleivers that when they desire spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy out of all spiritual gifts. Paul began to show why by comparing the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy in explaining that the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift because the tongue speaker does not know what is being said but God does, for why prophesy is better because he who is led by the Spirit to edify, they understand what is being said.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Paul repeats the exhortation again for why prophesy is the better gift to seek after than tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Then he addresses again the use of God's gift of tongues for why it is not a stand alone gift.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

This is about the use of tongues in the assembly that if any one speaks in tongues, they should pray that "he" that is the Lord Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit through another believer, will interpret that tongue being manifested in himself in the assembly.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

So Paul is instructing tongue speakers in the assembly to pray that someone will interpret that tongue so that the tongue speaker may understand it and that tongue is fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker for he is edified by understanding it. Paul makes that same point for others in the assembly.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Paul was never explaining that tongues can be for private use when thru out that chapter, he is talking about why prophesy is the gift to seek after because tongues is not a stand alone gift to seek after. But the way modern tongue speakers are going, they apply that whole chapter as Paul does not know what he is talking about as tongues for private use is the better gift. You guys sure aren't exhorting the gift of prophesy as if that is the best gift to seek after. No. It's tongues for private use, because you want to believe it is God's gift of tongues when it comes with no interpretation, & it's not, because the world has that kind of babbling gibberish supernatural tongue long before Pentecost for why it can never be an alternative form of God's gift of tongues..

 

[CharismaticLady]

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Scripture testifies that the devout Jews understood what His disciples were speaking in tongues about because it was done in their native language.



Not really. Tongue speakers always take verse 2 out of context for why Paul was saying that. From verse 1, Paul is addressing beleivers that when they desire spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy out of all spiritual gifts. Paul began to show why by comparing the gift of tongues against the gift of prophesy in explaining that the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift because the tongue speaker does not know what is being said but God does, for why prophesy is better because he who is led by the Spirit to edify, they understand what is being said.

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

Paul repeats the exhortation again for why prophesy is the better gift to seek after than tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Then he addresses again the use of God's gift of tongues for why it is not a stand alone gift.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

This is about the use of tongues in the assembly that if any one speaks in tongues, they should pray that "he" that is the Lord Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit through another believer, will interpret that tongue being manifested in himself in the assembly.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

So Paul is instructing tongue speakers in the assembly to pray that someone will interpret that tongue so that the tongue speaker may understand it and that tongue is fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker for he is edified by understanding it. Paul makes that same point for others in the assembly.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Paul was never explaining that tongues can be for private use when thru out that chapter, he is talking about why prophesy is the gift to seek after because tongues is not a stand alone gift to seek after. But the way modern tongue speakers are going, they apply that whole chapter as Paul does not know what he is talking about as tongues for private use is the better gift. You guys sure aren't exhorting the gift of prophesy as if that is the best gift to seek after. No. It's tongues for private use, because you want to believe it is God's gift of tongues when it comes with no interpretation, & it's not, because the world has that kind of babbling gibberish supernatural tongue long before Pentecost for why it can never be an alternative form of God's gift of tongues..

1 Corinthians 14 is comparing the two types of speaking in tongues. They sound the same, but the direction and necessity to be understood by man are not the same.

First is the ability given to all who believe as listed in Mark 16:16-18. These are for us individually, and used alone. Notice that interpretation is not listed. The tongues ability listed is for prayer and praise TO God. The direction is to God, not to man, as 1 Corinthians 14:2 depicts. Of the two, this is the lesser of the abilities as no man understands, even the one speaking. Because all had this gift, the Corinthians were misusing this ability and all speaking in tongues at the same time. As no interpretation was required, it would have been completely of no benefit to anyone else in a church meeting. 1 Corinthians 14:23 "Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" This is why the previous verse says that (this type of) tongues without interpretation is a "sign to the unbeliever." And verse 23 shows why? They don't understand and will speak against it. It is a negative sign to the unbeliever. Paul instructs the speakers to pray that their ability turn into the higher gifts as they grow in the Spirit, and for them to pray that even their prayers be interpreted.

In regards to the second type of tongues, not all are given this gift that requires interpretation, 1 Corinthians 12:10 and 30. Verses 28-30 show that the reason this ability is not given to all is because the two separate individuals who receive one of these connected gifts (or both) are higher gifts and the individuals hold offices in the church. The direction is FROM God, and what is received are listed in 1 Corinthians 14:6, "revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching." The interpretation is for the profit of all. It is important that these gifts be allowed in the service, unlike the prayer language given even to a new believer, the least of the abilities, and Paul allows 2 to 3 speak, and one interpret.

I've explained the wording in the Acts 2 account to you in posts #8 and #22, so it is obvious, you don't care that your erroneous interpretation contradicts the rule: 1 Corinthians 14:2. Each (singular) devout Jew heard THEM (all of them/plural) speak in his own individual language. It wasn't natural unless each of them understood all the other languages of those present. The Spirit also gave the other gifts to believes that day, and the devout Jews, emphasis on "devout," each received the gift of interpretation, the ONLY way any man can understand tongues.

 

[Enow]

1 Corinthians 14 is comparing the two types of speaking in tongues. They sound the same, but the direction and necessity to be understood by man are not the same.

There cannot be two types of speaking in tongues when Paul stated in chapter 12 what the manifestations of those gifts were for; to profit the body withal. So that means tongue speakers for private use are reading inbetween the lines deviating from the message that Paul was saying plainly.

To have God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people and then turn it around where it comes with no interpretation where NOBODY understands it and thus ASSUMED for private use would make God the author of confusion. Indeed, for all the list of benefits for tongues for private use, the tongue speaker is not edified nor fruitful because he does not understand it at all for what that tongue may be doing; thus hence not of Him at all.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There cannot be two types of speaking in tongues when Paul stated in chapter 12 what the manifestations of those gifts were for; to profit the body withal. So that means tongue speakers for private use are reading inbetween the lines deviating from the message that Paul was saying plainly.

To have God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people and then turn it around where it comes with no interpretation where NOBODY understands it and thus ASSUMED for private use would make God the author of confusion. Indeed, for all the list of benefits for tongues for private use, the tongue speaker is not edified nor fruitful because he does not understand it at all for what that tongue may be doing; thus hence not of Him at all.

Just curious, how do you interpret the use for the gift of interpretation of tongues? And how do you solve the conflict between 1 Corinthians 14:23 where is ALL speak in tongues, and 1 Corinthians 12:30 where NOT ALL speak in tongues? The answer is apples and oranges. No the same ability and direction.

The correction interpretation does not allow ANY contradiction, unlike yours. Give up your man-made understanding and go strictly by the Bible - all of it. If you really love God and want to let Him be Lord, get out of the way.

 

[Truther]

For how you are applying it to mean gibberish nonsense, that is a no. You can't apply that to mean that when God is speaking unto the people in their native tongue thru a person that knows not that tongue, hence stammering lips. Otherwise the way you apply it to mean, then how can He speak to "this" people? So no. The best example of God's gift of tongues was Pentecost when the devout Jews from all nations was hearing the Galileans speak in their native tongue the wonderful works of God.



It is not backwards when there has been a supernatural tongue in the world before Pentecost that was just gibberish nonsense, and not a foreign language at all in speaking to any foreign people that they would understand as their native tongue, because no one understood it.

Idolaters have it, religions of the world has it, the occult has that supernatural tongue that is just gibberish nonsense before Pentecost came with the real God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people the Good News.

So that tongue of gibberish nonsense that has been in the world before Pentecost is not of Him since God would call those sinners away from that kind of tongue and those spirits they serve to a personal reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ, the Bridegroom.

So that which is of evil in the world before Pentecost cannot be considered an alternative form of God's gift of tongues when we are to test the spirits ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) & the tongues they bring ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) and prove all things to abstain from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

So you ask Him to help you fix it because God's gift of tongues is not for private use and it is a foreign language to speak to the people and will never be identify with that supernatural tongue as found in the world as gibberish nonsense or else you cannot claim verse 22 in abstaining from all appearances of evil. To call that which was evil before Pentecost and say it is good and another use of God's gift of tongues for private use is going to bring woe on those erring believers.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Face it, you defend the counterfeit by debunking the genuine tongues.

Harold Camping did that too, ....God have mercy on him.

 

[Enow]

Just curious, how do you interpret the use for the gift of interpretation of tongues?

To interpret the tongues for everybody to understand, especially the tongue speaker, in order to edify the body of believers.

And how do you solve the conflict between 1 Corinthians 14:23 where is ALL speak in tongues, and 1 Corinthians 12:30 where NOT ALL speak in tongues? The answer is apples and oranges. No the same ability and direction.

1 Corinthians 14:3 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Paul is giving an exaggerated example for why the gift of prophesy is better than the gift of tongues because it is not a stand alone gift for why it must come with interpretation.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal......12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14 For the body is not one member, but many..........
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you......27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Neither one of those 2 references are testifying to tongues for private use.

The correction interpretation does not allow ANY contradiction, unlike yours.

The problem is there is no contradictions by how I did it; you are applying his words wrong. Proof?

How can you keep pagan supernatural tongue from coming into the assembly if they sound the same as your tongues for private use?

How can God, let alone YOU, call sinners out of the occult or idolatry or religions that commune with spirits and babble in that same kind of tongue you claim for private use to know they have repented? You can't.

How can those sinners know they have been delivered from those spirits and that tongue they bring if your church has the same kind of tongues for private use that sounds just like their former supernatural tongue of gibberish nonsense? They can't.

So do go before that throne of grace and asked Jesus Christ for help in normal prayer and expect an answer, sister.

 

[Enow]

Face it, you defend the counterfeit by debunking the genuine tongues.

Harold Camping did that too, ....God have mercy on him.

I defend the real God's gift of tongues against the pagan's tongues of gibberish nonsense that has been in use before Pentecost & still in use today.

 

[Paul Christensen]

When you are not proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil, I am not sure you can apply those verses to your walk if you pray as the heathens do in supernatural tongues.

Ask Him how can heathen that pray in supernatural tongue repent from those spirits and that kind of tongue KNOW that they have departed from those spirits and repented of that kind of tongue if they find that same kind of tongue in Christianity?

And how can your church know if they have departed from those spirits and repented from that kind of tongue if they sound the same as they were as heathens?

So no. God's real gift of tongues is a foreign language that the believer does not know but manifested by the Holy Ghost to speak unto the people. It will not be like the supernatural tongue found in the world that is not a foreign language but gibberish nonsense; so test the spirits & the tongues please.

I did ask Him, and He directed me back to 1 Corinthians 14 and told me to read the whole chapter and not to believe anyone who just picks and chooses verses out of it to prove their own opinions about it.

Also, He reminded me of the time I was quietly praying in tongues during an altar call in support of people being prayed for, and a NZ Maori lady told me that God encouraged her through her own Maori language through me, and I had never learned the language at that stage. And that a close friend in a prayer meeting praised the Lord in a Ghanaian village dialect, witnessed by a visitor from that very village. My friend had absolutely no knowledge of that dialect, yet when he was praying in tongues (gibberish as you call it) he was speaking that very dialect. So, what I was saying for that Maori lady to hear, and what my friend was saying that the Ghanaian visitor to hear certainly was not gibberish! So actual real testimony like that tends to shoot down your theory in flames, doesn't it?

 

[CharismaticLady]

To interpret the tongues for everybody to understand, especially the tongue speaker, in order to edify the body of believers.

Yes, and that is what happened on the Day of Pentecost. It was not natural understanding, but supernatural understanding. So how can you still go with your carnal interpretation and say it was natural?

1 Corinthians 14:3 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Paul is giving an exaggerated example for why the gift of prophesy is better than the gift of tongues because it is not a stand alone gift for why it must come with interpretation.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal......12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14 For the body is not one member, but many..........
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you......27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Do you realize that the interpretation of tongues can be prophecy 1 Corinthians 14:6? Paul is emphasizing when to use individual tongues given to all of Mark 16, and when not to use individual tongues. Do NOT use it in the congregation, thus 1 Corinthians 14:23, because it does not edify anyone else but the speaker Jude 1:20. Only use the the interpretation of tongues in the congregation, because it is equal to prophecy.

Neither one of those 2 references are testifying to tongues for private use.

Yes, it does. The contrast between the two is throughout the whole chapter!!!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I defend the real God's gift of tongues against the pagan's tongues of gibberish nonsense that has been in use before Pentecost & still in use today.

Pagans to not worship God, but the devil, thus the author of the tongues is the devil.

Christians worship God, thus the author of the tongues is God.

Wake up, and do not blaspheme gifts of God by attributing them to the devil.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I defend the real God's gift of tongues against the pagan's tongues of gibberish nonsense that has been in use before Pentecost & still in use today.

I think that if you were in an African Pentecostal church and someone received the gift of tongues and started praising the Lord in clear English which they had never learned, you would still say that he would be speaking pagan tongues. I have a friend who attended Pentecostal churches in Kenya, and that is exactly what happened on a number of occasions, and he is a very strict Reformed believer who is adamantly Sola Scriptura, and is totally opposed to the froth and bubble of modern Charismatic wacky stuff.

The trouble is that when prejudice against tongues is drummed into people, even the clear evidence in front of them will not break the prejudice.

 

[Enow]

I did ask Him, and He directed me back to 1 Corinthians 14 and told me to read the whole chapter and not to believe anyone who just picks and chooses verses out of it to prove their own opinions about it.

Also, He reminded me of the time I was quietly praying in tongues during an altar call in support of people being prayed for, and a NZ Maori lady told me that God encouraged her through her own Maori language through me, and I had never learned the language at that stage. And that a close friend in a prayer meeting praised the Lord in a Ghanaian village dialect, witnessed by a visitor from that very village. My friend had absolutely no knowledge of that dialect, yet when he was praying in tongues (gibberish as you call it) he was speaking that very dialect. So, what I was saying for that Maori lady to hear, and what my friend was saying that the Ghanaian visitor to hear certainly was not gibberish! So actual real testimony like that tends to shoot down your theory in flames, doesn't it?

Not really. When you call a pagan supernatural tongue that was evil, but now good as if God's gift of tongues can switch mode and be used for private use, there is something wrong with that. God is not the author of confusion, but you seem to think He can be.

And so any miraculous stories coming from you is circumspect. They said the same thing to Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 and that still got them denied by Him for being workers of iniquity.

 

[Enow]

Yes, and that is what happened on the Day of Pentecost. It was not natural understanding, but supernatural understanding. So how can you still go with your carnal interpretation and say it was natural?

Do you realize that the interpretation of tongues can be prophecy 1 Corinthians 14:6? Paul is emphasizing when to use individual tongues given to all of Mark 16, and when not to use individual tongues. Do NOT use it in the congregation, thus 1 Corinthians 14:23, because it does not edify anyone else but the speaker Jude 1:20. Only use the the interpretation of tongues in the congregation, because it is equal to prophecy.

Yes, it does. The contrast between the two is throughout the whole chapter!!!

You defend tongues for private use gained by an extra phenomenon of what you believe was the Holy Spirit coming over you later in life, do you not?

We agree to disagree.

 

[Enow]

Pagans to not worship God, but the devil, thus the author of the tongues is the devil.

Christians worship God, thus the author of the tongues is God.

Wake up, and do not blaspheme gifts of God by attributing them to the devil.

We are called to not believe every spirit but test them in 1 John 4:1-4 and the tongues they bring in 1 John 4:5-6 to make sure we do not wind up speaking as the world speaks in tongues. This church in Revelation was doing it.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So when already saved believers seek to receive the Holy Spirit again by a sign of tongues, what are they doing? Departing from faith He is in us.

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[Enow]

I think that if you were in an African Pentecostal church and someone received the gift of tongues and started praising the Lord in clear English which they had never learned, you would still say that he would be speaking pagan tongues. I have a friend who attended Pentecostal churches in Kenya, and that is exactly what happened on a number of occasions, and he is a very strict Reformed believer who is adamantly Sola Scriptura, and is totally opposed to the froth and bubble of modern Charismatic wacky stuff.

The trouble is that when prejudice against tongues is drummed into people, even the clear evidence in front of them will not break the prejudice.

You are called to defend the faith in Jesus Christ. You are not called to defend tongues for how special you are from the rest of the body of Christ.

God would not manifest His gifts to support apostasy. He would expose it. Therefore all miraculous stories are circumspect.

A time may very well come when in the third watch, more believers will fall prey to the visitations of the spirits thinking that is the Holy Spirit when it is not. More and more, churches and believers see nothing wrong with praying to the Holy Spirit or honoring the Holy Spirit in worship and when those spirits come, they will take advantage of the misled congregation whereby many will lose self control and fall in that movement of the spirit.

Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

For everybody else, ask Jesus Christ now to keep your eyes on Him and trust Him to do it so He is keeping you awake in the third watch.

 

[Enoch111]

The trouble is that when prejudice against tongues is drummed into people, even the clear evidence in front of them will not break the prejudice.

The prejudice against tongues is because of the abuse of this gift, and the false doctrines which have been created by Pentecostals and Charismatics.

They have essentially made non-tongues-speaking Christians second-class Christians, by claiming that modern tongues are the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. The corollary is that if one does not speak in tongues he or she is not filled with the Holy Spirit. WHICH IS TOTAL NONSENSE.

When that was not enough, they invented another phenomenon called *prayer language*. So if one does not pray in this prayer language, he or she is immediately a second-class Christians, since only the super-spiritual will be praying in a special prayer language.

And you can add to that [removed] the list goes on and on.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You defend tongues for private use gained by an extra phenomenon of what you believe was the Holy Spirit coming over you later in life, do you not?

We agree to disagree.

Later in life? I was 29 1/2.