Paul taught that revelation 20:4 is a present reality

[ewq1938]

The antichrist was already on the earth in Johns days and it’s purpose to deceive and to divert people away from the Messiah Jesus the Christ.

No, he wasn't.

1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

He was to come. Only precursor Antichrist's were there and have been around in every generation but the final AC has not yet arrived.

 

[bbyrd009]

argue with a post much

If a soul comes to life, is that the body that was dead or the soul?

i would say neither; what you are describing sounds mostly like being born, Scripturally speaking

If a soul never dies but the physical body is dead yet physically active, what is actually dead?

"but the physical body is dead yet physically active" ? huh? but i get you i guess, same q rephrased, right? And imo this confusion arises bc Adam is given a soul, rather than becoming one, as Scripture says; soul = life iow, you have a soul in the same way you have a life, and i guess it is the spirit that is deemed "dead," although that would be somewhat of an analogy as well i suppose.

 

[Marty fox]

Not even close!

Read carefully. teh beast has not even taken control yet and his mark has not been commanded yet! And the church is now close to 2,000 years old!

That's a matter of opinion I believe that it has.

 

[Marty fox]

I know the Pharisees tryed to make a case but there were to many holes in thier case.
But if hidesite is 20/20 as they say you shouldn't have any problem answering a couple of questions concerning the case you are attempting to make.

According to Daniel, God comes and gives the kingdom to the saints who the little horn oppressed.
#1-What year were the saints given the kingdom?

Daniel 7:22 KJV: Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

#2-what 3 1/2 year period were the saints oppressed?
Daniel 7:25 KJV: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

The temple sacrifice was reestablished when Antiochus Epehanies died then the Jews could openly be apart of the kingdom of God again as shown in Daniel 2:40-44

40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

The book of Maccabees shows the times of Antiochus Epehanies.

 

[shilohsfoal]

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

The temple sacrifice was reestablished when Antiochus Epehanies died then the Jews could openly be apart of the kingdom of God again as shown in Daniel 2:40-44

40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

The book of Maccabees shows the times of Antiochus Epehanies.

That is in fact what the Pharisees taught.
It's a shame Jesus disagrees with the Pharisees on this. Jesus said the abomination that causes desolation had not happened like the Pharisees taught.
Who do you agree with, Christ or the Pharisees?

 

[Timtofly]

argue with a post much
i would say neither; what you are describing sounds mostly like being born, Scripturally speaking

"but the physical body is dead yet physically active" ? huh? but i get you i guess, same q rephrased, right? And imo this confusion arises bc Adam is given a soul, rather than becoming one, as Scripture says; soul = life iow, you have a soul in the same way you have a life, and i guess it is the spirit that is deemed "dead," although that would be somewhat of an analogy as well i suppose.

This current body is dead though. The soul is not dead. When the soul leaves, the body is still dead, no? The only part that can die is this physical body that is already dead. So yes, spiritually dead, and then physically dead. So the only part that can be brought back to life is the body. But Paul pointed out we get a new permanent incorruptible physical body. The former body is still dead, no?

 

[ewq1938]

This current body is dead though.

If your body was dead you wouldn't be able to type.

 

[Timtofly]

If your body was dead you wouldn't be able to type.

Paul declared that as fact, and wrote part of the NT.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul declared that as fact

No he didn't. Your body is alive. This is not debatable.

 

[Marty fox]

That is in fact what the Pharisees taught.
It's a shame Jesus disagrees with the Pharisees on this. Jesus said the abomination that causes desolation had not happened like the Pharisees taught.
Who do you agree with, Christ or the Pharisees?

I didn’t learn this from any Pharisees I was shown it by a Christian Jew

The AOD that Jesus talked about was in His future but Antiochus Epehanies did the one Daniel mentioned.

If you read the book of Maccabees it would show a lot of Daniels events. These things did happen in history after Daniels days

 

[shilohsfoal]

I didn’t learn this from any Pharisees I was shown it by a Christian Jew

The AOD that Jesus talked about was in His future but Antiochus Epehanies did the one Daniel mentioned.

If you read the book of Maccabees it would show a lot of Daniels events. These things did happen in history after Daniels days

You don't even know who wrote the book of Maccabees yet you say you were not taught by the Pharisees.
The interpretation you believe came from the sect of the Pharisees which was formed in 167 BC.

Now who do you believe Jesus or the Pharisees?
One says the abomination of desolation took place in 167 Bc, the other says the abomination of desolation had not taken place yet.

Who do you believe, the Pharisees or Jesus?

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn’t learn this from any Pharisees I was shown it by a Christian Jew

The AOD that Jesus talked about was in His future but Antiochus Epehanies did the one Daniel mentioned.

If you read the book of Maccabees it would show a lot of Daniels events. These things did happen in history after Daniels days

It has been shown several times, once again

Daniel's (Little Horn) will be present on earth to see the second coming and final judgement as scripture clearly teaches below

No Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC didn't fulfill the scripture below in Daniel's (Little Horn), the literal second coming and final judgement seen below, is a future event unfulfilled

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I didn’t learn this from any Pharisees I was shown it by a Christian Jew

The AOD that Jesus talked about was in His future but Antiochus Epehanies did the one Daniel mentioned.

If you read the book of Maccabees it would show a lot of Daniels events. These things did happen in history after Daniels days

No Jesus taught about the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.
The apostles asked Jesus about the time of the end and his coming. Jesus told them the abomination of desolation would take place at the time of the end.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

This we know from the gospels. Jesus taught the abomination of desolation would be placed in Jerusalem in conjuction with his coming.
We also know what you claim was taught by the Pharisees because the pharisee named Flavius Josephus who joined the sect of the Pharisees at the age of 19 said so.

Who do you believe, the Pharisees or Jesus?

 

[bbyrd009]

This current body is dead though. The soul is not dead. When the soul leaves, the body is still dead, no? The only part that can die is this physical body that is already dead. So yes, spiritually dead, and then physically dead. So the only part that can be brought back to life is the body. But Paul pointed out we get a new permanent incorruptible physical body. The former body is still dead, no?

well i think transformed is the word usually translated

 

[Marty fox]

You don't even know who wrote the book of Maccabees yet you say you were not taught by the Pharisees.
The interpretation you believe came from the sect of the Pharisees which was formed in 167 BC.

Now who do you believe Jesus or the Pharisees?
One says the abomination of desolation took place in 167 Bc, the other says the abomination of desolation had not taken place yet.

Who do you believe, the Pharisees or Jesus?

Did you even read my post? The answers are there and I said who I learned it from

The temple was desecrated more than once

 

[Marty fox]

No Jesus taught about the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel.
The apostles asked Jesus about the time of the end and his coming. Jesus told them the abomination of desolation would take place at the time of the end.

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

This we know from the gospels. Jesus taught the abomination of desolation would be placed in Jerusalem in conjuction with his coming.
We also know what you claim was taught by the Pharisees because the pharisee named Flavius Josephus who joined the sect of the Pharisees at the age of 19 said so.

Who do you believe, the Pharisees or Jesus?

Matthew 24:15-20
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetopgo down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20-24
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus teaches what the AOD was and we know what Antiochus did in the past

Jesus was talking about the end of temple and sacrificial age

 

[shilohsfoal]

Did you even read my post? The answers are there and I said who I learned it from

The temple was desecrated more than once

You learned it from a book. A book who's writer is U KNOWN.
But the fact is what you believe was taught by the Pharisees and the book you learned it from was most likely written by a pharisee.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Matthew 24:15-20
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetopgo down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20-24
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jesus teaches what the AOD was and we know what Antiochus did in the past

Jesus was talking about the end of temple and sacrificial age

No, Jesus was talking about what takes place at the time of the resurection.

Matthew 24:21 NIV: For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.

You should pay a bit more attention to Christ.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

 

[Marty fox]

You learned it from a book. A book who's writer is U KNOWN.
But the fact is what you believe was taught by the Pharisees and the book you learned it from was most likely written by a pharisee.

Well I took you who I learned it from if you don’t want to believe me then that’s on you

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well I took you who I learned it from if you don’t want to believe me then that’s on you

You said you learned it from a book called Maccabees which someone told you to read.

You don't even know the name of the pharisee who wrote thd book but you believed it anyway.